Anyone else developing boundaries of iron as you get older?

[Lottapianos]

My boundaries are much better than they used to be after years of therapy but my gosh, my tolerance for bullshit is really vanishing. Friend has let me down badly in terms of emotional support and I called her out on it. She was very defensive, which is understandable I guess, but on balance I'm glad I had my say. Colleague at work likes to bend my ear about personal stuff, but never returns the favour. And I'm done with it. I'm an excellent listener- I know this because I've had extensive experiences over the years with utterly shit listeners. I'm tired of listening, being kind, being a cheerleader and hardly ever getting the same in return. I'm not a therapist or a carer to these people and I need to remember that. I'm all in favour of give and take in relationships, but I'm getting really sick of one way traffic

Can anyone else relate?

"I also hate it when people (particularly parents) tell their kids or other adults not to cry'

Oh gosh, me too. My mother can't tolerate tears and I'm sure that being told to stop crying so many times as a child was one of the main things that messed me up

Please don’t be sad/cry basically means ‘ I can’t cope with your feelings’

God, yes, this is me. Having had a difficult year you find out who your friends are. Having been brought up emotionally caring for my parents and their emotional needs coming first, I had replicated this in friendships.......I just didn't know that I was repeating my patterns from childhood. I am a good listener, non judgemental, stoic and not good at talking about myself.

However, when I have needed some help in the last year, only a few people stepped forward and they were not the ones I expected. Add peri menopause and it is like a veil has been lifted. I now no longer go out of my way for anyone unless it is reciprocated. I have cooled about 80% of 'friendships' as I realised it was not a two way street and I actually didn't like most of them that much and have realised that anything above 4 people in a group doesn't work for me. I make much less effort with people.

I also have to own that I got something out of being that person. Control, validation, avoiding my own problems, feeling superior. I feel much more free now and am concentrating on me and my family.

It has not gone down well.......and I don't have any fucks to give.

This is me in the past year, especially after I had my child. I am sick of people taking my kindness for weakness and taking me for granted. I did some very very very kind things for people and saw my loyalty and devotion as a friend completely taken for granted. So I cut them off. Now I spend a lot of time on my own and am enjoying it. This is MY life and it's up to me what to do with it.

It's helping massively with my pretty toxic family dynamics. When people make rude comments, I now stand up for myself. When people aren't reciprocating, I call them out on it and see how they react.

'I feel really upset that you're not listening to me. I feel like i'm really kind and giving to you, and that I'm not getting anything back.'

If their reaction isn't something like 'OMG I'm sorry I wasn't thinking,' and then an effort to be kind (which is what mine would be), then they're not worth my time at all. No apologies.

Hero "If you’ve never learned to understand that being sad is ok, and that strong feelings are justified sometimes then you don’t have any tools to soothe yourself."

oh I have tools.

I must be honest, I don't really understand this "being sad is okay". What does that even mean? I don't care what anyone else thinks of it, so of course it's "okay" but it's very unpleasant for the person feeling sad.

PP mentioned that saying "don't cry" means "I can't cope with your feelings". Yes, I suppose it does, and that's fine, why should anyone have to? Well unless it's your parents, because they chose you.

I deliberately didn't tell my friends a lot of stuff when dad was dying - because they shouldn't have to cope with my feelings on something so awful. Life is hard enough.

I never say "don't cry" to anyone. But for myself, I have been reading up on Stoicism and found it very useful.

I find it interesting several posters have said once they had children. Or after a significant life event. Do our minds change after these events?

This was the same for me.

I’m 30 and I have already cut several users off. I have one decent genuine friend and it honestly doesn’t bother me.

Its taken a while to realise my parents were the main issue for me. Very limited contact. The last time I saw them all they talked about was their (unearned) wealth happily watching their adult dc struggle.

I mentioned I was retraining and starting a course to change my career....didn’t ask one question about what it even was!!!!

Some people excuse my parents awful behaviour for poor social skills but I really don’t think it is.

I fed it to them on a plate, they simply do not care about anyone but themselves. Incredibly self absorbed individuals.

I’ve also come to shake the “but it’s faaaaamily” comments if people ask why I’m not close. Just because we are related I do not need to take any more shit than I would off a stranger.

Sick of being judged by people with wonderful, loving and supportive parents who wouldn’t have the first clue what it feels like.

For me, saying that being sad is ok is because feeling sad is part of being human. We're built for a range of feelings, but unfortunately we have divided them into 'good' and 'bad' somewhere along the way which means we judge the 'darker' ones as not being ok. When in fact they are all ok.

What is not ok is 'I feel sad and I need you to make me feel better', which I think is how this thread began. I think that needs to be taken to therapy.

Yes, as woollycardi says.

I wouldn’t suggest that you expect anyone to cope with your feelings, but they can show you empathy rather than just pushing you away.

And I really relate to the not always telling friends about painful things, personally I find sympathy really hard to bear and those awful stock phrases that get used...

Exploring these very complicated and personal things here is going to be problematical, which is why they’re better dealt with face-to-face with a good therapist.

'What is not ok is 'I feel sad and I need you to make me feel better"

Do you see that as different to 'I feel sad and I want you to listen and empathise, and that makes me feel better'? Because I do expect that from friends, especially if they have been through a similar experience to what you are currently going through

Never heard of emotional accounting before but just had a quick Google. Really interesting.

Yes, I think it can be different if you don’t make it their responsibility to make you feel better.

It’s hard though, we’re only human, we can get it wrong. I wouldn’t want perfect friends, and I’m a million miles from it myself.

Unfortunately I think if you're brought up in an abusive or emotionally closed off situation you tend to be drawn to people like that as you grow up, which means that if you do put up boundaries you often lose most or all of your friends, seeing as they are likely to be the sort of people who take advantage. What makes it hard for people to hold their boundaries is the difficulty of finding and connecting with people who aren't like that - people who are genuinely supportive and giving. Learning what that's like is basically like learning a new skill - you have to find a whole new way of being with people that isn't based on them draining the life out of you. Being around a genuine, kind person can feel weird if you're not used to it.

If you do put up boundaries and lose friends, but would rather not be alone, then you have put (even more) work into recognising the type of people who will be a decent friend to you and learning how to be a decent friend to them. I've had to do it, and it's very tough.

A few things I've learned from the process are:

1. if you're used to being the listener and never being supported you can actually damage decent relationships by being too self-sufficient. Decent friends want to help and support you and if you don't let them, then they might experience that as a rejection. It can be very hard to try to be a friend to someone who won't let you in, who won't ask you for support.

2. While bad times reveal who is a bad friend, good times can reveal who is a good friend. What has been striking to me over the years is how hard people find it to be genuinely and wholeheartedly happy for others when things are going well. I knew one of my acquaintances was actually one of my best friends when she expressed genuine joy at some good fortune I had - it's so lovely to feel that someone properly wishes the best for you and isn't jealous or resentful in any way.

3. Your boundary has to have a door, or some way through. It can't be a wall of iron unless you want to really close yourself off. Sometimes when you put a boundary up, the person on the other side realises where they went wrong and sometimes it is really worth it to let them through. I put up (much needed) boundaries with my DH, he gave his head a severe wobble, went to counselling and we came through it. Our relationship is better than I could have ever hoped, because we thrashed it all out with horrific honesty and because I was able to let him back in. Had I closed that boundary entirely we'd now be divorced.

4. It's rare that anyone is ever deliberately trying to hurt you. They might just be careless or clueless or have their own issues. That doesn't mean your hurt is invalid, but it also means that you haven't done anything attract or deserve that hurt - often it isn't about you at all. It's just unlucky pairing of two people who are bad for each other. In that case, walking away is best for both of you. It's not a matter of cutting people off, it's a matter of realising your mistake and rectifying it.

Thank you TheDailyCarbuncle really good post.

Glad you and DH worked it out.

Life isn’t risk free, but what an adventure.

I think it's a bit ridiculous to class this as a feminist issue

Spoken like a true mansplainer

Men are often emotionally abused and due to poor boundaries, put up with it or kill themselves. Everybody needs boundaries.

I'd need to be a man to mansplain, wouldn't I?

@TheDailyCarbuncle really fab post, thank you.

@TheDailyCarbuncle Brilliant post. I particularly relate to point 4. I found that before I reset my boundaries, I felt like a victim a lot, and then immediately after, people I'd been 'victim' of looked like baddies. One of them was. But largely it was about relationships I wasn't identifying were unhealthy, and neither was the other person. 2 good people without healthy boundaries can make a mess of emotions without anybody trying to hurt anyone else.

Are you me Op? lol

Luckily I really like my own company because my intolerance levels are through the roof!
No longer do I tread on eggshells, take shit, put up with crap or pretend.
Not many people like or appreciate the 'new'me but I'm done pleasing others.
Age and bad experiences have brought me to this happy point in my life.

Yes yes yes!!
All of this.
I'm glad its not just me who sits around overthinking and trying to figure out if relationships are really worth the hassle.
I've been a fixer, people pleaser, rescuer for most of my life. Now late 30s and seriously weighing up who deserves to stay and who doesn't.
The wrong people are massively exhausting and make me feel like crap. I was talking only yesterday to friend about relationships.
I didn't really have any role models for platonic friendships growing up, parents are shite. So I've had to learn it on my own from nothing, had lots of practice making and maintaining friends or not.
Romantic relationships have been wholly less successful since my role models were terrible. I'm currently in my 3rd serious relationship. First was soon to be ex husband, lasted 13 years. Last one was with a man child I met online and lasted 18 months. Current partner is an old high school boyfriend who I never really forgot. We're nearly 8 months in, starting living together 3 months ago.
Already I'm thinking is it worth it.

I find people disappointing if I'm honest. I could try and talk through my issues with current partner but I find myself wondering what's the point.
I lived alone for almost a year and loved it. I came and went as I pleased, only had myself to clear up after and look after.

Sometimes I genuinely have no idea what I'm doing.

@hectorglooplovesapoop unfortunately people often dont see their own failings or are quick to write off the impact. DH has this with PIL and after a lot of stress due to how they acted and hurtful things they said when I was pregnant or DD was in special care, I have come to realise they are actually incapable of 2 way conversation. I am retraining and starting a new business so for most people there is a conversation about what its about, how much its needed, they might share a relevant experience or talk about how it'll be great for me to be around for DD because xyz happened when they had young children. With PIL they asked how my training course went (I had a business meeting in london which they decided was training). Great I said, I'm going for it. No further questions were asked. They launched into something about DHs cousin and her job, her DC, PIL new car and the conversation never circled back to ask me a single question. They're like primary school children running to show you a new drawing rather than caring for a 2 way interaction. It feels easier now I can observe and expect that but I feel sad for DH because they just dont listen to him. They moaned about voluntarily paying for a one off activity for cousins DNs during a visit despite buying a new car and 2 holidays. They talk about my job likes it's a hobby not paying the bills as if we're all in the same boat financially. It's like they literally cant take on board reality and what people say. It's actually very narcissistic but they will tell you how sociable they are and how many friends they have (they dont). I've learnt to be wary of people who tell you how sociable and great they are and to enforce boundaries to protect my emotional wellbeing as they will just drain you dry without a second thought and regardless of what you're going through.

I really appreciate this thread. After a horrible four years that have made me question nearly every relationship in my life, I have begun to learn self sufficiency.
For a long time I was scared of my own company and of not having anyone, so I would accept being treated badly just to keep people around.
I realised that this was actually making me feel like shit! And that it's actually better to be happy with myself, on my own, than put up with that, in terms of emotional balance.
I dont always manage it-I've got 40 years of entrenched behaviour to unlearn, but when I get it right, it's truly been liberating!

@Mochatatts

Sounds like you moved in far too quickly when you were actually enjoying your own space after a long period with someone.

Make plans to move out again asap and see how your relationship goes.

CFC