My mother....

[Anothermotherproblem]

Have changed username as very specific details - please bear with me!

When my parents divorced, my mother received a large amount of rental properties from my father (inherited from his mother who died young), alongside the family home. My father, who is a shit stirrer, sent me a bunch of legal documents at the weekend which show for the past few years, my mother was supposed to pay each of us 4 children a % of the rental yield of the properties.

I was very angry that she had not mentioned this to us. It’s not about the money - I would never ask her to give it to us. But it’s about withholding the information/not letting us decide for ourselves. When I asked her about it and explained this (that I was upset she had not told us about it - but that I did not expect any money!), she completely lost her shit and insisted that she does not need to pay this as she put us through private school (by taking out mortgages and the rent; not from having a job). In truth she lived dramatically outside her means - horses, expensive holidays for herself and long lunches and dinners, lady of leisure etc. She paid off the mortgages by downsizing the house and has let all of my siblings live in the family properties either rent free or at a reduced rent, except for me, who has always had to pay full rent. This is typical of how unfairly she treats me.

I’ve just had enough. I’ve had enough of her refusing to discuss things like grown ups. She uninvited me from family lunch at the weekend for daring to bring this up - I met her today with a friend and she made several passive aggressive digs about all the money she spent on our education etc etc.

She has DS once a week for an afternoon so i can have a break and because she loves having him. So I can’t really go NC. Plus we just bought a house around the corner. But I am hurt and angry and I have finally had enough.

I suppose I just want some advice on what to do/how to handle. Sorry for the length and not sure how much sense it makes!

This is madness! OP, just another message of support. I'm glad you've contacted a lawyer.

I'm not sure what the arrangement is if not a trust (the way you've described it it surely must be, unless you are named as a legal owner? Worth checking with your lawyer) but whatever the legal position, it is clear that morally that was the agreement between your parents.

No good mother would take money earmarked for her children for any reason but dire financial straights in order to keep a young family fed and housed or to pay for things that will benefit them such as their education (as send to have been envisaged by this agreement). A parent should always be scrupulous about separating their money and their children's money.

It's always brought home to me how sheltered I am when I hear these kinds of stories because I find it so, so shocking.

Ffs she’s texting me memes! I really do not want to get drawn back in yet again for the sake of an easy life!

Just don't respond to her messages...

When she raises the bar just keep explaining you're waiting for a sincere apology.

Beware of DARVO (deny, attack, reverse victim and offender) behaviour from her. If she’s used to controlling you all she won’t accept this threat lightly.

Never heard of DAVRO! Sounds like something to read about

Dealing with this through the courts will be very long, expensive and toxic. It really needs to be the last resort once you have tried and exhausted all other avenues.

Once you understand the legal position you can talk to your mother. Rather than getting angry about how she has “ robbed you “ , I’d take the line that she’s not understood the terms of the trust or perhaps has had the wrong advice from her solicitor.

So now you have discovered her “ mistake”, you are sure she will want to get advice from her solicitor as to how the matter can be resolved. Perhaps it could be dealt with through mediation ?

You really REALLY don’t want to litigate over this unless the amount is worth millions, you have tens of thousands to spare for legal costs and are willing to give up years of your life for this AND to lose everyone in your family.

Why would it be lengthy? The OP’s mother has failed to comply with the terms of a court-ordered settlement presumably? If you can’t comply you’re supposed to go back to the court to explain why. You can’t just vary the terms you’ve agreed to because you feel like it. It’s a serious issue.

What is the rough estimate? Small claims court goes up to 10k. But court action does feel like a point after which there is no turning back. That said, am quite horrified by her behaviour. I remember my ex using similar tactics. Including nasty put downs like saying 'yawn' when I was clearly in terrible pain. I had to go NC for my mental health.

Oh my.. sounds like Mommy Dearest is in Blind Panic mode... stay focused OP.. do NOT back down... get that Court Order enforced...

Im sorry op but your mother sounds mean and spiteful...just awful.
As a contrast my mother is always trying to give me her life savings...of £2500...because " it will be worth more if you have it now than when I die because of inflation and everything" :)
I would get what money you can from her and then back away from her...at the moment she is treating you like s*^t but you mustn't let her any more.

@Herocomplex It’s a serious issue

I don’t remember saying it wasn’t serious. I suggested court as a last resort, which isn’t the same thing.

Agree with @SHAR0N I think a court case will be long and costly (aren’t they all) and cause a HUGE family rift in the process.

“it’s not about the money” .... has quickly turned into “show me the money!”

I'm new to the threads but am horrified.

Women who live of others hard work when they are capable of working disgust me.

Your mother has lived for years on your paternal grandparents hard work and hasn't had to lift a finger. That's just gross.

You and your children. as the child and grandchild of the people who worked for this money deserve it and you should get it.

How would your grandparents feel about where all their money is going?

A thought, based on Oz anyway, not sure about the UK. How about a lawyers letter stating that according to your lawyers reading of the divorce settlement, there appears to be a discrepancy. State that it seems that face to face questions have not been satisfactorily answered, and that the issue needs to be addressed so that any necessary restitution can be made and further action avoided. Non accusatory ( sort of). Giving her a chance to explain, put right and avoid court. Yes, there would be a charge, but if it works, way cheaper than a lawsuit, emotionally and financially. Bottom line is, she has been stealing from her children to supplement her lifestyle. Disgusting.

Seriously I would register a legal interest in each property so she can't sell without your knowledge or transfer ownership of them.

Leave your Dad to take her to court.

Meanwhile batten down the hatches and extract yourself from this toxic relationship.

You know she treats you as scapegoat against your golden brothers, she uses DS to rally them against you. What do you gain from having a relationship with her - is their anything positive?

Your immediate problem is that the nice treatment she is giving you today, is because she knows she mustn't alienate you too far, as it is not to her advantage, Abusive relationships go in cycles, she will be foul, then nice again, just enough to draw you back in. it's the script.
You are only just awakening to the true nature of your Mother.

Re money, you say you don't need it, but what if you did ?
What if you were in a lowly paid job, or in debt, or your husband left you ?
Did you have to get a student loan ? This should have been funded by the agreement too, (Did your brothers get their education paid for ?)

Really for me, apart from her being a deceitful, selfish, thieving cow, the issue is the discrepancy between you & your brothers.

I agree you should get information, but let your father do the fighting if possible. What a pity he didn't say something when you all were in higher education, or at least when the oldest turned 25.

In view of her lifestyle, you may get nothing at all in inheritance, I would get the money restituted, the yearly %, & the student load, & make sure its paid annually from now on. (to this end she should have to show annual accounts)
Move house, well away from her, & cease all communication, particularly between DS & her.

@SHAR0N

I don’t intend to go to court, or any such drastic measures. I just want to find out my exact position with my lawyer and take stock. My father is full steam ahead anyway from his side, which is separate from me.

it’s not about the money” .... has quickly turned into “show me the money!

I don’t think that this is true or fair. It’s not about the money as in the money itself. I do not need the money- I can’t stress that enough. It’s about the RIGHT to the money. The principle. As a PP put it above, very succinctly: “Bottom line is, she has been stealing from her children to supplement her lifestyle“

My grandmother would have been horrified to find out that the properties she struggled so hard (SO HARD) to purchase all those years ago (women weren’t allowed a loan etc her husband had to co-sign) and the little empire she built for herself, had somehow ended up in the lap of my mother. That wasn’t what was agreed or intended. I fully understand my father’s fury. The divorce settlement wasn’t designed for my mother to never work, keep her horse and Range Rover/Maserati. That much I can tell you.

Between all of us to date it’s probably about 150k (although complicated by her loaning brothers huge amounts of money and letting the live rent free), but the point is it’s the present and future money too.

I don’t even know if I want the money. Maybe I would feel guilty if she had to change her lifestyle. But I would like her to sit down and be sorry! Understand why I am upset. Understand how unfair she has been with all of us.

Sadly think that’s a pipe dream...

There are a few quite messed up things too in the court order - eg he was supposed to be allowed to retrieve family heirlooms from the property - chandeliers etc. He was not allowed to. My mother then paid the removal men before they did the job and went on holiday. More than half of the stuff was stolen.

I do feel very sorry for my father. His mother died at 51 and they were very close, and I feel like he has lost so much of her through these dealings. Not sure how I can justify my mother’s behaviour. Even with these small things it’s just so immoral!

Please do some research and find a good therapist to help you deal with the FOG you are under from her.

Do not feel sorry for her, she has zero compassion for others, her own DC included.

Had one of my brothers message me about this today. Aka one of the flying monkeys. Was actually very eye opening - of course the basest motives were ascribed to my conversation with my mother - apparently I “kicked off” and was “threatening her”! Honestly I sent her the calmest and least emotional messages of all time re this last weekend! DH who is extremely level headed read them and thought all was fine. He kept trying to argue with me about the school fees and then had nothing to say when I pointed out the wording “after full time education”, the fact our mother had 2 fancy cars, a horse and didn’t get a job. Nothing to say to that. Backed down quite rapidly and changed the topic then.

Good for you stick to your guns!

Not to mention that they live rent free so they may be getting their 7% anyway

There’s an old saying:
Money lost, nothing lost
Health lost, something lost
Dignity lost, everything lost

OP your mum may have gained your grandmother’s money but lost her dignity in the process. You are going about this in the correct and dignified way.

My lawyer is looking over the document and my father has hilariously managed to get in touch with his lawyer of TWENTY!!! Years ago!!! Same company and everything. So they should be able to bottom it out.