My mother....

[Anothermotherproblem]

Have changed username as very specific details - please bear with me!

When my parents divorced, my mother received a large amount of rental properties from my father (inherited from his mother who died young), alongside the family home. My father, who is a shit stirrer, sent me a bunch of legal documents at the weekend which show for the past few years, my mother was supposed to pay each of us 4 children a % of the rental yield of the properties.

I was very angry that she had not mentioned this to us. It’s not about the money - I would never ask her to give it to us. But it’s about withholding the information/not letting us decide for ourselves. When I asked her about it and explained this (that I was upset she had not told us about it - but that I did not expect any money!), she completely lost her shit and insisted that she does not need to pay this as she put us through private school (by taking out mortgages and the rent; not from having a job). In truth she lived dramatically outside her means - horses, expensive holidays for herself and long lunches and dinners, lady of leisure etc. She paid off the mortgages by downsizing the house and has let all of my siblings live in the family properties either rent free or at a reduced rent, except for me, who has always had to pay full rent. This is typical of how unfairly she treats me.

I’ve just had enough. I’ve had enough of her refusing to discuss things like grown ups. She uninvited me from family lunch at the weekend for daring to bring this up - I met her today with a friend and she made several passive aggressive digs about all the money she spent on our education etc etc.

She has DS once a week for an afternoon so i can have a break and because she loves having him. So I can’t really go NC. Plus we just bought a house around the corner. But I am hurt and angry and I have finally had enough.

I suppose I just want some advice on what to do/how to handle. Sorry for the length and not sure how much sense it makes!

When you get your money, and I feel you should, she will still have a percentage each year going forwards. I think you said there are 4 children? This would mean she still gets 70%. I think she owes you 4 years. Your father probably is angry that you should be getting the agreed percentage when you came of age. I would be furious if I was your father.

@mammajay

You are right. He is furious and that is why, and I do understand it. And yes, 70% of the rental yield for the rest of her life is a pretty generous divorce settlement really.

Read this op.

I'm seriously getting uncomfortable about the bond she has with your boy.

People like this are extremely seductive to their targets. Ie your boy. No wonder he adores her and asks for her all the time

@springdaffy

I will read that!

I’d bet money on it your bothers already knew about the money and having been getting their share.

Maybe that’s why they get cheaper rent?

God, OP. She sounds just like my ex MIL. Deluded, toxic and narcisistuc. But lucky me. I have easily been able to give her a brutal piece of my mind and we are NC. Not so easy when its your own mum. I winder if there is a dose if jealousy in her too? You seem to have made a v good life for yourself. And your DH sounds great.

Your ds needs protecting from her op. Before she gets court ordered access...
The extra cash she owes you will enable you to have more fun with your own dc.
Step back and take ds with you...
I say this as I am nc with my dm. She doesn't see my dc either.
It was my responsibility to keep them safe for mh issues...

Thank you for all the comments

Interested to see what the lawyer says...

My father has said this morning that the reason she was given such a generous settlement was because it was understood she would continue to pay the school fees - so this was factored into the decision to give her so much, and that’s why the wording is that we receive a % from 25 OR when we are out of full time education. I suspect she was actually supposed to pay for our university fees etc with this money too (she didn’t)

Has she badmouthed your Dad in all this time particularly about money?

My mother basically always said to us “your father never even bought you a loaf of bread” but actually this was a clean break order where he gave her this huge amount of revenue instead and was not supposed to make direct contributions! She also frequently said she received the property as he didn’t show up to the divorce settlement, but the document determines that that was A big lie. I feel very mislead.

@RandomMess that was actually a cross post! Spooky!

Sounds like you may have the wrong opinion of dad?

My father isn’t a good person - he was abusive. Because of this it’s been fairly easy to paint a picture of him as also financially unfair and not contributing but that at least he is innocent of. What a fucking mess

A year ago my Mother made some very unpleasant comments re my DS and my mothering, and I wanted to stop her from Having him And I received a lot of nasty abuse from Everyone about it. that's an example of the Flying Monkeys op. Your brothers, and now your mother's friend....sent out to do her bidding, to bully you, to take issue with your stance, to guilt trip you, all on her behalf. That's what flying monkeys are.

This is a very serious situation, and needs careful thought from you about what you really want. About whether you want to continue having a relationship with her, and possibly also with your brothers. The one thing you won't do, the thing that will be impossible, Is to make your mother see that she has done anything wrong, or admit to that. Do not waste any energy trying to get her to think differently, because that will not happen.

The only person whose behaviour you can change in this situation is yours. You can change what you will and will not accept, you can change how you deal with things. But you will need lots of help to do this if that is what you choose. And it is no small thing.

I'm very sorry to hear about your situation. She sounds very much like my own mother, in her tactics and behaviour. I have not had contact with my mother for many many years now, but thank goodness my brothers who have in the past been used as flying monkeys, have luckily seen the light and do not join in with this anymore although they do still have a relationship with her. Which they find very difficult and stressful.

Your mother's a horror. Not only has she swindled you and your siblings of money and manipulated you all, she's turned you against your father by telling lies. If she's capable of doing this to her DC imagine what she might do in future do your DS!

When you truly recognise that your mother isn't a nice person it may shed more light on their marriage. It sounds like they both could have be toxic and abusive towards each other???

Hope your lawyer comes up with a plan OP

Can completely understand why your Dad is furious. He does not want your Mum to have the money that was agreed to go to his children! (& his Mum's grandchildren - it's her legacy after all)

My father has now separately emailed the courts who are behind the court order (supposedly he wanted it to be a trust and they didn’t allow it for some reason) and has asked for it to be enforced

How are you feeling about it? Are you feeling stronger? Angry?

Well done contacting your lawyer. Legal action is the way to go. Your mum has been awful to you and you deserve to get what you’re rightfully owed.

the reason that it couldnt be in trust after the age of, I believe, 26 is because this is the max age for kids trusts. They are supposed to mature at that point and give the children what was owed.

Had the money been in a trust with your mother as a trustee, she could genuinely have used that money to pay for education and support (if she could show a balance and reciepts to show she hadnt taken more of it than the 'extra costs' such as maybe helping with rents at uni, etc, paying uni fees, etc against the value of the revenue) This COULD in some way be what she was referring to, if she wasnt clear with a solicitor in discussing the set up.

However a clear contract that grants you 7.5% of the rent from the age of 25 or when leaving education cant be backdated with things that she spent prior to this. She has already had the extra 7.5% during the private school / uni days and, as your dad rightly states - this is what was agreed. Im guessing some of your siblings may well have been nearing the end of that period of life which may be why a trust wasnt appropriate.

Either way Im sure the 7.5% was calculated to be enough to cover the fees and that stopped when each of you reached a certain age.

So yes, she owes you the 7.5% rental backdated and ongoing. Even if you dont need it, you could put it into an account for your DS to help see him through uni, get a deposit on a first home, etc.

Its possible that she has offset money for rent in the prioperties your siblings live in. However you are still entitled to the equivilent portion of the market value of their rent. Her arrangement with them is not your concern.

If she has sold any of the properties I would imagine that you are due a percentage of any sale, because she is depriving you of your share of the rental properties. Perhaps if she has several properties you may be able to broker a deal where you look at the past and future values of the total portfolio of rents and maybe take one of the rental properties off her.

We have been through similar with my FIL, with a trust deed he hid which should have paid out at 26 (My DP and his sister are now 54 and 55) and have received advice. We are trying to work it out differently because FIL is v fragile and has dementia and we dont want fall out. But this woman sounds highly toxic and I think you should do what you should, especially if your dad is willing to help.

@incognitomum

I am very, very angry. The responses on this thread combined with every day which passes with her ignoring me and behaving as if I am somehow in the wrong are fuelling me forward into action.

@nettletea

Thank you for the long and comprehensive post! Makes a lot of sense. She has not sold any properties but we would have been entitled to a % of the sale. Very curious to see how this plays out. Lawyer hasn’t replied yet.