Divorcing sulking H - will it happen in 2020?

[jamaisjedors]

So this is my FIFTH thread, and no, I'm still not divorced and probably won't be in 2020 as my exH is refusing to sign the initial papers and so this could drag on until 2021 (2 years after our separation) when I can divorce him without his consent.

First thread from December 2019 after my H ruined my birthday weekend (and 1st anniversay of my dad's death) by giving me the silent treatment all weekend to "punish me" for not being grateful enough for him coming away and buying me a present and a card.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking?msgid=84022238

Thanks to some amazing posters I realised that H's behaviour (which was not at all a one-off) was abusive and unacceptable.

I prepared to leave him and got plans in place but got "hoovered" back in by H with promises of joint counselling, individual counselling for him, and regular "date nights". Unfortunately none of that changed the dynamic in our relationship : 2nd thread :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3498886-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking-part2?msgid=85957683

I started a 3rd thread in May when H and I had decided to separate :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3580872-LEAVING-sulking-H?msgid=88239005

and that's when things got nightmarish.

As everyone on here pointed out, the most dangerous time for women is when they decide to leave an abusive partner.

In a nutshell, H went missing, had an acute psychotic episode, was admitted to a psychiatric facility and is still in there now.

Staff at the hospital warned me H could be dangerous for me and advised me to move out asap which I did, in fear for my life.

Fourth thread :
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/a3637219-DIVORCING-sulking-H?msgid=92845754#92845754

saw me going to court to safeguard the DC through a request for full custody with limited visiting rights.

With the help of my great lawyer we got the decision we wanted from the judge but the battle never ends over every little thing - schools, activities, money...

Now I am at the stage of entering financial negotiations with exH through lawyers and solicitors plus he has appealed the judge's initial decision so we have to go back to court in mid-February.

Fun start to the New Year which is why, a whole year on, I still need the support and advice of all of those who've been through similar situations or who are just naturally wise !

I have also come a very long way this year.

Leaving a controlling and emotionally/verbally abusive relationship was the hardest thing I've ever done.

Actually NO, the hardest thing I ever did was STAY in that relationship so long in a bid to keep our family together and make it work.

I'd love to think that by sharing this journey on here it might help others who are doubting their strength and capacity to leave - my life is a million times better now although I still have a lot of healing to do.

I don't think appeasing him will make any difference in terms of divorce. Perhaps it is time to ignore all emails that cannot be ignored because they relate to the DS contact.

Anything about divorce/finances dealt with by your solicitor.

"Noted" when it's to do with contact.

He still perhaps believes he is in control?

Don’t reply.
You don’t have to.

Live your life.

I think he still believes that if I just understood how he feels, I would come back.

Because he is still asking if we can "talk".

What I have realised is that he is still just going on about how HE feels without taking into account my feelings at all.

So if HE loves me and misses me then things can be made right because he is still in the narrative that this is all a big mistake.

There is not one word about how I am feeling or why I have left.

I agree with @MsPavlichenko that this is still about control.

He is still trying to control the narrative about our relationship.

This is out of his control, and nothing escapes his control normally.

I also wonder whether the "TEDDY BEAR" analogy from Patricia Evans about controlling people is at work here.

So if I am his "object" or "teddy bear" who is just there to mirror his emotions, it is inconceivable to him that my emotions and state of mind might be different.

Also he might be buying into the whole romantic "love will conquer all" theory whereby if he loves me enough and makes a big declaration about his "unconditional love" then everything will be ok.

I think just utterly ignore.

Let him exhaust himself writing down his narrative. It actually gives you written evidence of how his mind works.

Time to get the email filter working again.

You are not here to emotionally soothe him.

He drained you and compromised your RS with your own children because you had to prioritise his needs and were preoccupied with his wants for decades.

Don’t let this happen again remotely / by stealth. Any thoughts of him delete from your brain - decide he has had more than his fair share of your time, love, emotion, headspace at the expense of your DC.

Emotionally turn your back on him and turn towards continuing to build that strong bond of love and new found joy with your DCs.

Filter all his emails to a folder. Respond in a batch process once a week with cut and paste responses.

No that won’t work for me.
Please direct to the solicitor.
No I am not interested in pursuing that.

In this phase he is trying to hoover your back only for his own needs.

He now needs a v v clear boundary. Blank detached responses with a clear lag time (a week) so that he gets the message.

This isn’t the time for nostalgia or marriage reviews. That time might be in 5 years time once he has accepted what has happened.

I would look at this being for his benefit. Any softness he will see as an chink of light.

You are doing great. Love reading about the joy and fulfilment you are finding in new experiences personally and with your children.

Expect the amateur dramatics once you shut him down and put in boundaries - the emotional drama will escalate. It’s all part of the script - “you will give me attention - I demand it!” - no doubt the suicide threats etc. will come. Just call an ambulance. I would even tell him that his number is blocked. Emails will be reviewed only once a week.

Hello Jamais. I was wondering how you're doing. You really do sound stronger every time you talk to us.

Perhaps it's not a surprise in this lock down that ex is feeling nostalgic. I'm guessing that he's home alone more than ever in his life and without you there quietly getting on with all the emotional, social, practical and parental work on his behalf, making his life function smoothly, he's probably noticed your value in his life for the first time. His life was better with you in it. Pity he was incapable of empathy. As you say, he is still just going on about how HE feels without taking into account my feelings at all .

How to respond to his sentimental emails? I'd say, what will bring you the least stress in the long run? Would a longer honest response from you open the doors to more gush from him? Is there any chance he would take on board your point of view? From what you've said he hasn't listened to your previous emails so a full response doesn't sound like it will make any difference.

Would a short, fuck off 'noted' or just ignoring him response enrage him or be used against you as evidence of your unreasonableness? As you have the boys to consider perhaps better to strike the civil balance in the middle.

I really like your suggested answer but some of the parts like unfortunately and we had some amazing times sound a bit apologetic and as if you could change your mind. I'd go with something like:
thank you for telling me how you feel but I don't feel the same. For me our marriage was unhappy for a very long time. I tried my hardest to make it work but it wasn't possible. My decision about the split is final. We have 2 wonderful children and now our shared focus should be building a happy stable life for them as we live apart.

Please refer to my emails dated x/xx/xx and xx/XX/xx.

That’s it. Keeping it professional

"thank you for sharing, but I don't feel the same. We had some amazing times and have 2 wonderful children but I was unhappy for a very long time. My decision about the split is final".

It's not 'unfortunate' that you feel the way you feel. Your feelings are valid.

If you say 'our marriage was unhappy' he'll argue with you that it wasn't 'that unhappy' (for him). So just say that you were unhappy. That in and of itself is reason enough to end a marriage, regardless of how 'happy' the other party is.

If you say you tried to 'work at it' he'll just say that you didn't work hard enough (regardless of what you say) or he's got it 'all figured out now' so things will be fine.

Don't JADE (Justify, Apologize, Defend, or Explain) your decision. He'll think up counter-arguments, he'll have reasons why you are wrong. He'll attack your logic and your feelings.

In this case the best defense is NO defense. Just a brief statement of the facts.

So much great advice!

One of the reasons I am so much stronger is that whenever I'm worrying about what to do, I know I can get some spot on advice on here.

Actually the first thing I thought when I got exh's email was "mn will tell me not to reply"

I'm going to :

• wait a few days, no obligation to rush this
• reply

thank you for sharing, but I don't feel the same. We had some amazing times and have 2 wonderful children but I was unhappy for a very long time. As I said in my emails on x and x date, my decision about the split is final".

@AcrossthePond55
You really know how exh works. Totally the script :

you say 'our marriage was unhappy' he'll argue with you that it wasn't 'that unhappy' (for him)

If you say you tried to 'work at it' he'll just say that you didn't work hard enough

He has already said these things to me a million times.

I wouldn't say "thank you for sharing" it implies you are happy to hear from him.

How about;

"Perhaps you need to share your feelings with your therapist or a friend? As I have had told you previously on x and y ---"

Just to use the thread as therapy, here's what I'd like to reply to him :

• all through our marriage you veered between loving and hating me. You always told me I was crazy but that hatred of me was there all along (I know 100% from your notebook) You hate my family too.

• the last time you wrote to me to ask to reconcile, I received your lawyer's instructions to court on the same day. You accused me of being a manipulative liar who was committing fraud and was psychologically unstable and a bad mother

• there is obviously something seriously wrong with you as one minute you are professing your eternal and unconditional love for me and the next attacking me in court and bad mouthing me to friends and family

-it is not normal behaviour when a relationship ends to swear you will ruin the other party financially and make their life a misery and ruin their career

• you told me when we were married that it was good that I was scared of you. This is not an example of unconditional love

• you claim to love me and miss my company but when we together you rejected all of my attempts to spend time together because I was so annoying and such a horrible person

• you told your psychiatrist and several friends that I was a malignant narcissist and that i was dangerous. Now you love me and cant live without me?

• you know that I moved out of the family home because several medical professionals and friends said you were a danger to me. Do you think I'm stupid enough to " overlook" that seething hatred you openly expressed and believe love will conquer all?

• it is not normal to retain 100% of all furniture and belongings a year on after separation meaning that your wife has to start from scratch and so do your kids even if it is technically legal. Again, where is the unconditional love or even common decency?

You are living in cloud cuckoo land - you have still not apologised once for a single thing that happened either when we were married or since our separation and yet you think we can reconcile.

You are obviously still in total denial about our relationship and separation and need to pull yourself together and realise

WE ARE NEVER EVER GETTING BACK TOGETHER

phew.. feel better now, sorry for the rant thanks for letting me rant

@jamaisjedors

There is definitely a 'common thread' to all abusive people. He's no exception to the 'rules that abusers belieive' that 1-it's never their fault and 2- if it is their fault, refer to rule number 1.

My abusive ex used to be able to tie my thoughts and feelings in such knots that I didn't know whether I was coming or going! When I was with him I always thought "There's something wrong with what he's saying", but I could never put my finger on exactly what it was. It wasn't until much later (and much counseling) that I could finally see it clearly. We want so much to be able to trust and believe in the people around us, and there are those who have no hesitation in using that desire.

Ohh @RandomMess

Perhaps you need to share your feelings with your therapist or a friend?

I did wonder about suggesting that as I don't want to hear it from him anymore.

I've politely replied twice already.

He'll probably go off on one about psychologists as he did previously but why not?

I could say something like " From now on, I expect our email exchanges to be related to arrangements with the dc or moving forward with the divorce. I suggest you talk to friends or a professional about your emotions concerning our separation as it is no longer appropriate to discuss this with me and I will not be replying. "

It's hard to say something like that because I do actually care about how he is doing, if he was sick or one of his family died I would want to know.

But I know that this is probably not reasonable right now.

You need to put the barriers up and bounce this stuff back at him IMHO, you need to shut down his whining emails.

You have been nice twice, time to be business like.

You need to mentally detach...

Send more like your latest one posted and thereafter ignore anything that isn't strictly about the divorce or DC - even then you only respond to the ones that absolutely need it, everything else ignore.

So he's finding sulking social isolation not as much fun when he doesn't have 3 other people in the house to make unhappy, funny that.

@Clutterbugsmum

Exh was gloating about having a whole week to himself to work and do what he wanted when we initially (back in the day) discussed 50/50 custody!!!

Plus he was always telling me and the kids to get off his back and let him work (or make lists, or sort out his bank statements).

The irony of him saying he is missing my company is not lost on me!!!

A while back he suggested I did a PhD because then I might " leave him alone"..

Well I've taken him at his word with the "leave him alone" bit

Not that much fun at all. Although I'm surprised he has even noticed we are not there anymore.

But when he pulled I was never "allowed" to sulk back or just give him some space.

The silent treatment was no fun if we weren't actively miserable and under his nose while he did it.

Wow he is doing a brilliant job of making sure you spend hours thinking about how he feels and how you should react to him. He is great at putting himself front and centre.

No reply. Stop thinking about replies. Tell yourself there will be no reply and then go play Candy Crush or watch TV instead of obsessing about him.

@TorkTorkBam you are right too, I was already cross with myself for giving this headspace.

But I AM noticing that I am snapping out of it quicker even if tonight has been a bit ranty because I haven't given him much headspace or talked about him for ages.

Off to meditate and get my head straight!

It is really emotionally intelligent and resilient to process the feelings he has triggered in you by venting here and/or ranting in a journal etc.

You need to articulate, express and process your hurt, anger, frustration and rage BUT NOT TO HIM.

You need to do 100% grey rock, vanilla, detached responses.

No feelings, emotions, opinions. Anything more than this just feeds his delusion and entitlement to your energy and headspace. You are not here to soothe or resolve his emotional turmoil, regrets, etc. It is his responsibility to seek professional help.

You need to treat him like a distant stranger so that he gets the message and backs off.

Business like. Cold. Detached. Distance. Rinse and Repeat.

Boundaries. Boundaries. Boundaries.

You need to protect yourself emotionally. Conserve your hard win, finite emotional energy to spend on your own personal restoration and growth and that of your DCs. Don’t squander it on him. He’s had enough of your heart and soul.

Id want to reply something along the lines of that's your narrative not mine.

IMHO, It is good to wait, like taking a couple of deep breaths before answering a trick question. or in an interview & repeat the question whilst while drumming up a reply (see politicians !)
I don't think thanking him for sharing his opinions is bullshit ! you don't want to hear his whining.
I would change tactic, maybe on the lines of:
"I think the end goal is to co parent without vitriol, to this end, being the best father to our children that you can be."

oops, "I think thanking him for sharing his opinions is bullshit !"

Ignore everything else and just state "I told you my response on x and y, when are you going to do the right things by the DS and move the divorce forwards? They have accepted this and deserve for things to be finalised amicably and to have their possessions in which home they choose and to see you treating my fairly."

TBH I think filing it away under "Nice cycle evidence" the best thing.