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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

An opinion about no contact and over Xmas, I feel guilty!!

126 replies

Movingon83 · 25/12/2019 21:07

My stbex has be warned by my lawyer to not contact me or Ds (won’t go into why, long story, narcissist).

He was sent the letters 2 weeks ago. I felt bad as it’s Xmas so asked them to put in the letter he can come to my mums house Xmas eve to see him. He didn’t show up yesterday at all. He could have rang the lawyer 2 weeks ago if he couldn’t make it and ask for a different day, but didn’t.

Now he has sent me a msg just now saying he needs to see Ds please can I come and see him.

What do I do? He had the chance yesterday. I can’t reply to him as the lawyers have said no contact as I’ve requested he doesn’t contact me (he just coercively controls me).

But my emotions are getting the better of me as bloody usual and I feel bad as it’s Christmas. What should I do?

OP posts:
redastherose · 25/12/2019 22:10

Please remember it was his choice not to see his son! He could have seen him yesterday but chose not to which tells you he doesn't give a shit about your DS. It's all about him (always is with narcs). Don't contact him, he doesn't care about you DS.

DecemberDays · 25/12/2019 22:16

If you are paying a solicitor to get contact scheduled in a way which is safe for you and DS, then you ignore that solicitor’s advice, then you may as well put your money in the middle of the floor and burn it. Seriously. Solicitors cost a lot of money. If you are in Legal Aid, then it is the tax-payers’ money you are wasting. Either way, this solicitor is being paid to give you advice and act for you at considerable cost.

Your solicitor is giving you advice based on the situation, but you are the one instructing with the proposals. To break the hold of coercive control, you need to stand firm by your proposals for contact if you believe they are in the best interests of DC. You need to stand firm by your proposals all the way through endless rounds of mediation and all the way to court. The contact arranged should be in the best interests of your child, it is not a way to control and manipulate you. You have not stopped contact, you have offered contact which has not been taken up. It is hard, but it is doable.

Original poster
Movingon83 · 25/12/2019 22:22

You are right @DecemberDays and pretty much what I was told by my lawyer. He said it in a much ruder format because he was annoyed with me, but he was right!

It’s why I wanted no contact because it messes with me.

OP posts:
Thelnebriati · 25/12/2019 22:28

Have you read the Lundy Bancroft book?

Lundy Bancroft - why does he do that?
tinyurl.com/LundyWhy

JustASmallTownCurl · 25/12/2019 22:38

No, thats not what happened. He was given reasonable access, and chose not to turn up. You didn't stop access.

This.

And this isn't meant to sound harsh but it's a good way to stay on track - your job is to keep your son safe. That's it. Physically and emotionally safe.

That means you need to exhibit and enforce clear boundaries, correct priorities and stick to legal contact agreements.

Do. Not. Budge.

He can have contact as per the legal agreement, that is the contact he can have. His choice whether to stick to it or not. Your job is keeping up your end of the bargain.

yesterdaystotalsteps123 · 25/12/2019 22:50

Don't feel guilty. Let me just offer you another perspective. My STBXH used to use his children to control his ex. He would demand contact and constantly harass her about where and when and try and push her boundaries all the time for another hour etc. Then when they were here he would stick them on an iPad and watch sport/go on his phone. He didn't make their beds, wash their clothes, read to them, tuck them in but he would be Disney dad in the park, especially if there was a chance he would be admired. It took me awhile to click, it was nothing to do with his kids, it was a way of controlling his ew.

DecemberDays · 25/12/2019 22:58

Okay, the point about contact is that it is not about you, it is about your son’s best interests. You have suggested (or at least I assume from what you have said) that there are issues which need to be fixed for your son’s safety before contact can be resumed. So until there is evidence that those issues are fixed, you do not need to do anything; and any change should be communicated by your ex to your solicitor.

The reason your ex wants contact with you is because he can manipulate you and get inside your head. But this situation is not about contact with you and there is no reason your ex needs it. The more channels of communication you have, the easier it is for him to mess with your head.

ohwheniknow · 25/12/2019 23:01

Priority is protecting your child from abuse. Not exposing him to abuse because you don't want to deal with uncomfortable emotions.

Have you done the Freedom Programme? If not, you need to do it. Urgently. You can't rely on a solicitor to do all your decision making - you need to be capable of protecting your child independently (as evidenced here by you preparing to ignore the advice you were given anyway).

Protecting your child is your responsibility. Being abused by his biological father is still being abused; if anything the impact of being abused by a parent - someone who's supposed to love and protect you - is all the more destructive. Never mind when the other parent also failed to protect you.

You need to ask yourself why you're so desperate for your child to have a "relationship" with an abuser.

Www.freedomprogramme.co.uk

Original poster
Movingon83 · 26/12/2019 08:05

Everybody around me keeps saying a relationship with his father is the best outcome. Even the lawyer said a judge will say this but will decide how.

Ds asks me all the time can I see daddy. I don’t know what what to say to him. I hate being the person who is stopping him.
I would have allowed him to see Ds with me or my mum but the lawyer said No his msgs to to are too horrible.
I think Xmas eve he was working but didn’t do anything about it.

I won’t reply to him tho and I suspect he will turn up. I feel bad for my mum as I have to work the next few days!

OP posts:
Pinkbonbon · 26/12/2019 08:19

Well 'everyone' is wrong. The best outcome would be if you or your child never had to see the f*cker again.

He doesn't even want to see his child, he just wants to be in control and is playing on your heartstrings. You need to think if it like this - your ex is evil. E-vil. Think of it that way and it will make your life easier in the long run. Is it as straightforward as that? Maybe not. But close enough.

Your only job is to protect yourself and your son from him as much as possible going forwards.

Stop feeling sorry for the bad guy. Stop letting him manipulate you into thinking you are the bad guy.

As for your child, I know it is hard now but when have you ever heard an adult say 'I wish my mother had let me spend more time wish my abusive father' ? Never. But this forum alone is full of people who's mothers didn't have the strength to leave their asshole partners.

You have taken the best first steps. But always remember you are lightyou ex is dark. And darkness always seeks to stamp out light. It is it's only goal. And the reason behind every move it makes.

Iggypoppie · 26/12/2019 08:36

OP, as a general rule of thumb it is thought good to see both parents. Not however if there is abuse or anything that will affect the well-being of the prime care giver (you). It's you who will have the biggest influence on your ds, so you need to stay strong, have boundaries and look out for both of you.

I second you try the freedom programme.

Original poster
Movingon83 · 26/12/2019 08:40

I don’t know what his intentions are, all I know is my son is not safe with him. In front of me and my family he is the best dad. When he takes him out (and he does take him places) he is the BEST dad ever. Always buys several toys and always the biggest most flashing one. Which is one reason I suspect Ds likes to be with him because he gets whatever he wants. He really likes to look like the big man. But back at home alone he forgets to feed him, he pays with lighters, scorched the carpet....etc etc the list is quite long.

I would agreed to supervised at the moment but the lawyer said that’s up to him to ask.

OP posts:
Janus · 26/12/2019 08:46

Just to add, it seems your ex had nearly 2 weeks to try and arrange to come over on your specified date, he won’t have worked the entire 24 hours. If he couldn’t have made it for whatever reason he could have told you (via solicitor) that he couldn’t make it and make alternate arrangements. It seems he can still contact you too, so still could have told you he couldn’t make it, rather than you waiting and wondering all day. Any decent dad would be heartbroken not to make that appointment and begged for an alternate day.

Uncompromisingwoman · 26/12/2019 08:50

OP - in the nicest possible way, this needs to be about your son and not your feelings / needs. You have one job - to keep your child safe and you have been given a legal framework to do this.
If you abandon it, because it's difficult / your ex is manipulating you, then you fail in that one job. I understand it's hard but your child's safety needs to come first, second and third. Good luck and stay strong.Flowers

Original poster
Movingon83 · 26/12/2019 09:00

When Ds ask can I see daddy what do I say?

OP posts:
Janus · 26/12/2019 09:02

That’s a tough one but I guess you could say, Daddy is working but we are setting up a meeting for you as soon as we can. Is solicitors open in the next few days? If they are I guess you contact them, explain what happened and get them to set up another appointment which he then has to keep.

DecemberDays · 26/12/2019 09:20

I said to DS that it was difficult to sort things out, but we had special people who helped families sort out these things involved and they would help decide what was for the best.

The courts will in the vast majority of cases decide that contact is in the best interests of the child. I suppose what you achieve by going to court is that there are set times and places and there is no need to have any conversation with the other side about this, aside from emergencies.

The first step, which I suppose is where you are at, is that your solicitor is trying to either regulate contact in a safe or manageable manner or get your ex to initiate a court action. Within that, you must have some idea of what level of contact you would consider safe and manageable for your DS, I assume - not what ‘everyone says’ but you think based on what you, as the primary carer, believe to be appropriate.

DecemberDays · 26/12/2019 09:22

Sorry I missed the bit where you said you would agree to supervised contact but it was up to ex to ask.
Of course you will be waiting a long time as ex is more interested in messing with your head.

category12 · 26/12/2019 09:42

When Ds ask can I see daddy what do I say?

First of all, reframe this for yourself every time, stop taking so much responsibility. Remember, you gave your ex the opportunity for access on Xmas eve. He chose this power play and emotional blackmail instead.

"Daddy has to decide with the lawyer."

Original poster
Movingon83 · 26/12/2019 10:58

Thanks for all the support. And thank god I didn’t reply out of guilt.

I’m not used to having any control, I usually aim to please and diffuse.

OP posts:
category12 · 26/12/2019 11:14

Well done OP. Flowers

Jux · 02/01/2020 00:57

Movingon, you need to get on the Freedom Programme more than anyone I have ever come across. I hope that's not rude, please don't take it badly, but you have to learn where your boundaries are abd how to enforce them, and that's what the Freedom Programme is about. Try to do it in rl as I think that will help you more and also you could do with having a few people in rl who understand where you're coming from, but if you honestly can't then online will help you too.

Original poster
Movingon83 · 02/01/2020 07:45

Yes I think you are right and I will be enrolling.

I’m haven’t heard a thing since. I know he went to see a solicitor the next day or so but I’ve had no letter or anything. I thought he wouldn’t be desperate to see his son and I would get a letter ASAP. Instead he is going on a holiday abroad!

OP posts:
Original poster
Movingon83 · 02/01/2020 07:46

Sorry meant to say would be desperate!

OP posts:
candycane222 · 02/01/2020 08:58

Well done! congraulate yourself - you held a boundary there and you can now see you did the right thing. He tried to control you, he did not care about seeing ds. And you didn't let him control you, you stayed in charge.

I think 'daddy has to talk to the lawyers ' is a useful way of putting it to ds. Takes the heat off you and reminds you it is indeed the case. Its not you stopping contact. His dad can see his son, on the right terms ie without manipulation of you.