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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

39 and boyfriend reluctant over a baby

192 replies

Louie1980 · 30/11/2019 12:03

Hi

I'm 39, been with my partner 18 months, he's also 39. We live together. I have no children, he has one aged 15. We're on the verge of breaking up over the issue of children. It breaks my breaks heart because I love him more than I've ever loved anyone. Sorry it is so long, its hard to summarise these things! Any advice would be appreciated as I feel at my wits end.

Just before we moved in together at 8 months, I brought up the issue of children and I feel he didn't react positively. We were in a restaurant, and in what I thought was a romantic moment, I told him I wanted a child with him. Said it hasn't felt right in my last relationship of 18 years because I wasn't that deeply in love with him, I'd almost convinced myself that I didn't want kids as something just didn't ever feel right with him. That for the first time it feels right for me, that he made me laugh so much and we have such a great time together and have so much love that I could picture kids. He said well it's not all roses, they are hard work, they are stress, I guarantee it will change our relationship. Nothing positive! I got upset. He said he feels kinda on the fence, he has one child so doesn't feel a desperate urge, but if I want a child "one day" he could have one. That's the problem, his "one day" when I'm 39!

And basically this cycle has continued for the past year, building up until now where we've exploded. We've got stuck in a cycle where I bring up kids, remind him at 39 it's kind of now or never. I have endometrosis and fibroids so fear I may have ferrility challenges and we'd need to try for a long time anyway.

He says he wants kids but I'm putting too on much pressure. I need to be patient and allow the bond to grow naturally. I say I know we haven't been together that long, and I wish I was 29 not 39 and we could have a good number of years just enjoying each other, but there isnt that time. First 6 months of living together we had a handful of rows about it, admittedly I got hysterical at times, about once a month we'd split up, because it always felt when I brought it up, gently, he would freak out and only say negative things. He says if I could remain calm he would be in a place wanting children. I say if you wanted children I'd be calm!

We've had many hearts to hearts, calm ones, about what's holding him back. He says he had one child with a woman he barely knew and he wants to be sure this time it would be in a relationship that will last. He said just show me calmness and I will want this. So I really tried, we didnt disciss it for a few months, things were lovely, and I asked him if we could try soon maybe in a couple of months and he said yes and much to my delight he started not withdrawing in me straight away. That was July.

Then the next month, I told him it was ovulation time, come and shag me silly and he freaked out. Said it wasnt sexy don't tell him when I'm ovulating. Poured out loads of negative feelings. Said he had shouted at his dog the day before (he does do this annoying high pitched whining) so what if he doesn't have the paience to be a father full time? He had a bad relationship with his own father who was emotionally abusive and uncaring, occasionally physically abusive, who he doesn't speak to. He said what if I'm like my dad? (He wouldn't be anything like that!). Said he's not done full time, hes worried about the feeling you can never have a break/escape. The stress and sleepless nights, says he likes being selfish and his lie ins etc. It wasn't what I wanted to hear but I remained calm, and tried to talk through all his fears and ways to deal with them (I said anytime you need a break, it's fine I'll hold the fort you take yourself off for a few days etc).

But the calmess only lasted so long. He began picking fights with me over small things and we rowed. I was trying to keep calm but failed, he was pushing my buttons. (He has a totally different perspective and feels I've been attacking him, its so frustrating he doesnt see hes always been the one to initiate fights and it feels like sabotage to me). He carried on month after month, half up for trying but not if he got a hint it was my ovulation days suddendly our pasionate sex life would falter (he'd say oh Im tired, but I suppose we have to I'm scared of upsetting you). Things got calm again in October and we tried more properly that month but again he showed reluctance and we stopped trying.

Admittedly, as this issue has continued, I've not handled it well. I break down and cry. He tries to get away from me and I follow him round the house contuining the fight. We stay up till 5am arguing. He leaves and I blow up his phone. I understand where he is coming from, I do get intense and it's not helping. I'm just in a sheer panic now about missing out on children. I also have zero family everyone has died so that makes me emotional too. I told him I really really will try harder but I need him to meet me half way, even if we halt trying, at least start to give me some positive talk. To talk about how lovely kids could be, how we'd bring them up etc.

After five months of this behaviour it's all come to a head. A few weeks ago I realised that I always intiated sex, all year, the whole time we've lived together where he was all over me before. Our sex has always been great so I hadn't really noticed before. I brought it up, asked if it was baby related, said it affected my self esteem. He exploded and said here we go again you cant stay calm (I had been!) this is why my head's not in the right place. He stayed at his mums for a few days, thought we had turned a corner. He came back saying I want kids, began for the first time talking positively and talking through the practicalities (suggested moving near his parents to have their help). Said let's have a couple of months of calm and start again in the New Year. I said fab.

So we have a few weeks of calm and then a few weeks I took his hand and said I bloody adore you, when we try again in Jan can you promise me there'll be no doubts and starting and stopping? He flew off the handle saying I can't stop the pressure. He sent me links to articles about borderline personality disorder and implied I'm mentally ill! I'm not whatsoever! Im a 39 year old woman in a panic I'm missing out on kids. I said it's huge alarm bells that just a month or so before you say youll be ready to start trying for a baby, you react like this. He is putting all the balme on me (all year hes suggested I have counseling - I did - the emphasis is all about how I need to fix myself). I suggested couples counselling, and him having counselling alone to figure out what he wants, but it falls on deaf ears. He swears he wants children with me and its exhausting trying to convince me he loves me. He says his wobbles are just minor things, why can't I show him the patience and hold his hand through his little doubts.

He's now at his mothers and I've suggested a month break. I know and fully agree with him that I need to react better. I'm trying to get across to him it's a two way thing and his behaviour is sabotaging and so triggering, he needs to show me more positivity. Now weve taken a step back, I also feel worried he is (subconsciously not maliciously) gaslighting me. Trying to convince me I'm mentally ill, to project away from the fact he doesnt fully know what he wants and is afraid to commit. He barely talks about his fears of having children, and plays them down, makes out our only problem holding us back is my behaviour.

Some background on him... We've had many heart to hearts about it. He told me when he'd got his "fuck buddy" pregnant he'd known for three weeks in his early 20s (he suspects she trapped him saying she was on the pill) he was devastated. They'd gone to an abortion clinic and just before it was about to happen she ran out saying she couldn't do it. He stood by his child. For 15 years has paid maintenance and seen his son once a week. But he said he felt depressed for many years because he didn't want kids with someone he didn't love/barely knew. He resented giving up nights out staying in with the baby when his friends were all out. Said it contributed to him smoking too much weed to numb himself (something he did for over a decade, he has given it up completely since meeting me). When his son was 6, he felt bad he'd never given the mother of his child a chance romantically and they were together 18 months. He said he didnt ever fall in love with her and she pushed for moving in and they split. They are amicable enough and make it work, but there is underlying tension as she doesn't really involve him in decisions (for example, when he was 6 she was letting him wander off to the park on his own where teens where drinking and smoking, he went nuts, even now she will text him to say been to parents evening weve decided he is dropping this GCSE, so tells him stuff but wouldn't dream of having invited him to parents evening and asking his opinion - he moans about it, but arguably he could find out the date and get himself there!).

He lived with one other girl who got pregnant and had an abortion, they were together 4 years, that ended 7 years ago. She was 11 years younger, said he did love her but age difference challenging, they were volatile and she cheated on him and hed taken her back. It was a different more recent ex of his who I got chatting to in the beginning when I was trying to figure him out, who told me he had "made her" have an abortion. I asked him about it, he said they'd agreed mutually to have an abortion, she was young and studying, he felt the relationship was too volatile. I thought ok fair enough.

I don't know what to do. This has become toxic and both of us feel close to a breakdown so it can't carry on like this. As much as I want a baby, I know it wouldn't be fair to being a child right now into our relationship as it is. I don't want a child where I feel I've held a gun to his head, I only want it if it feels right and both of us are fully on board. I know how having a baby tests the strongest of relationships. I also really don't want to let him go. I feel so sad this issue is destroying a love that felt so wonderful. In between all the drama, we laugh so much and we have always been able to be super affectionate.

I've thought about leaving him and having a sperm donor. But it's not right for me a) I have zero family so would feel completely alone in it and b) I just don't want a baby for the sake of it I want that only in a loving stable family unit.

Rationally, this relationship hasn't turned out how I hoped, but at 39 I don't think it's a good idea to start again and try meet someone else to have a family with. I don't think there would be the time to bond with someone and it could be a disaster to look for a relationship when pinning my hopes and hapiness on a guy to give me my last shot at a family.

And I really love him. I'm so confused. Some days I think ok be smart, get super calm, be patient through his wobbles. You can win him round, we are close. Believe and trust him when he says he wants a child. Then I think ok get real, there have been too many red flags, he's a commitment phobe and it doesnt matter what I say or do. Happiness and all he wants could be right here and he is sabotabing it and I deserve better. I feel angry hes delaying so to ensure biology takes the decision away from us. It's really a pressure cooker also because we were in the middle of moving house, we'd spent two months finding the right place (a doerupper to renovate and make money on), viewed 40 houses. We were so excited about a business venture together. Yesterday I cancelled the house sale with our buyers. I wanted to show him I am on the brink of giving up and I hoped he would have a u turn.

If we both want the same thing like he swears, why is it so hard?! I want him back so much but I'm scared of us just repeating the same pattern. I know I can try a bit harder to give him calmness but I keep saying to him, my emotional outbursts are a symptom, I can try to do better but when the cause, his reluctance, is repeatedly coming out I can only manage that symptom not make it go away.

Have thought about IVF where we freeze our fertilized embryos and wait until things feel right. That that could take the pressure off and allow uus to have a baby only when things are right. He had said it was a great idea. I felt sad thinking it meant if he was prepared to spend £10k plus on that (money we'd have to borrow) he really is not anywhere near close to wanting a baby and so would it be a waste?

I said to him in the beginning, when I met him I was quite enjoying a child free life, and if he'd have told me he didn't want kids I think I'd have stayed with him because I really love him. But this half in half out situation is torturous.

Thoughts please. Am going crazy.

OP posts:
plightofthealbatross · 30/11/2019 22:12

I've thought about leaving him and having a sperm donor. But it's not right for me a) I have zero family so would feel completely alone in it and b) I just don't want a baby for the sake of it I want that only in a loving stable family unit.

You don't have a loving stable family unit with this man, by your own very involved description of the relationship. So don't bring a child into it with him. He clearly doesn't want one, either, and can't just admit it. He picks fights and breaks up with you repeatedly instead. Very unhealthy dynamic ... not one to bring a child into.

Sorry, OP. But I would rethink the entire relationship with him as well.

Sandals19 · 30/11/2019 22:16

This is not to say that your resolve of being happy even if you don't have a child isn't a very important one; it's a great resolution regardless of what happens.

Inliverpool1 · 30/11/2019 22:16

As the mother of a son I am absolutely horrified at the advice on here to steal someone’s sperm.

Keep your mouth shut and get pregnant, He has a history of paying up I can’t believe my eyes

Sandals19 · 30/11/2019 22:22

steal someone’s sperm

When you shoot your sperm into someone's vagina, they're not stealing it. You're risking a pregnancy, and you are 50% responsible for that pregnancy. Even if you use condoms, they could fail. The only truly safe and responsibility free sex is no sex.

Teach your son that.

Rockingdahorse · 30/11/2019 22:23

As the mother of a son I am absolutely horrified at the advice on here to steal someone’s sperm.
Keep your mouth shut and get pregnant, He has a history of paying up I can’t believe my eyes

Well tbf, if any man doesn't want a baby, he can use a condom or have a vasectomy. Ejaculating into a woman carries the risk of pregnancy, so it's on them. Why should a woman take contraception to prevent a pregnancy she wants because a man can't be arsed to wear a condom?

Sandals19 · 30/11/2019 22:25

Also in this case, ops dp - by that point of the discussions, had said that his objection to trying for a child with her, was her insecurities, lack of trust, issues etc - not an objection to having a child with her per se.

And he has reiterated that in the latest discussions (though put a time delay, and her resolving her "issues" on it).

Sandals19 · 30/11/2019 22:29

As to his history of paying (probably the minimum) ... Merely a consideration of what is likely to happen in future if they do break up and op has to be a single parent; or should she not consider whether he had any form for having the decency to pay something toward his child's good, shelter etc.?

Sandals19 · 30/11/2019 22:30

*food

AFairlyHardAvocado · 30/11/2019 22:35

OP the more I read the more obvious it is that whatever is in either of your minds long term, he doesn't want a baby with you right now.

I was left outside a hospital when I was a baby. Then fostered and (thank goodness and genuinely thank my lucky stars every day) adopted.

Bringing a child into the world is a huge deal. I know you know this in principle but in reality, you would be selfish to being a child into this relationship.

Maybe I am biased in that but you know he doesn't want one right now, with you.

So by all means explore other options but other posters telling you to just let it happen aren't considering the actual child involved as a result.

From "us" please think carefully about a real life baby (not the idea of one) and their life before making a choice about what to do.

Sometimes I feel physically grieving from the fact I'm not yet a mother. But I will always make a decision based on what I can offer a child, not the other way around.

Thanks
OrangeZog · 30/11/2019 22:35

I’m sorry you are in this situation.

It sounds to me that he either does not want another child or he does not want one with you. If it’s the latter then perhaps he will change his mind but I honestly think you need to have a few years of enjoying being with each other rather than constant arguments first and by that time, your odds are going to be very low.

Rather than spending money on freezing your eggs, I think you would do better to save to have a donor egg and IVF as your odds will be minimally higher.

I know that you say you do not want to be a parent alone but I think that right now it’s either inevitable (you go it alone or you get pregnant and your relationship doesn’t last) or else or you don’t become a parent at all.

Flowers
Oliversmumsarmy · 01/12/2019 01:48

When I sit down with him, calmy, and say look I really feel you don't want a child and I think we have to acknowledge that. I told him it doesn't make him a bad person. And I could posisbly still stay with him I just need clarity. He absolutely swears he does. Says if me and him were to break up he'd like to meet someone and start a family

Yes he does want to have children.

Just not with you.

I have seen it on here before the line

When someone tells you who they are.
Believe them.

Never was it more appropriate.

I would start having tests to see what your chances are and look at donor sperm.

FWIW I know you have this view of an ideal family life and being a single parent with little to no support isn’t what you want but just to let you know some of the happiest and most successful people I know are single parents.

In some cases having no one around was a blessing in disguise given the family dynamics of some of my friends.

RichTwoTurkeyFriend · 01/12/2019 02:22

OP, your desperation for a child is jumping off the screen. And that’s ok, to be desperate for a child. Lots of people are.
Your partner is not one of them. It sounds to me like he is trying to appease you, which is not ok. But if you are this intense day to day I can kind of understand his inclination. Perhaps you are also reading signals that aren’t there about him wanting kids.
The way you deal with conflict - fighting til 5am, him storming off, you blowing up his phone, breaking up once a month - is completely dysfunctional and toxic. It would be the absolutely wrong thing to do to bring an innocent child into this shitstorm of a relationship. It doesn’t sound like you two should be together regardless of the kids thing, to be honest.

MsMellivora · 01/12/2019 03:06

I have found my women friends that were desperate for dc had the least luck. Their desperation made them vulnerable and they seemed to attract the worst types of partners or maybe they just settled for less.

Regardless of who said what and what that means what I would just say straight out you are actually bad for each other.

Aveisenim · 01/12/2019 03:34

He doesn't want children. You do. Leave him and find someone who will be fully committed to having a family with you.

Countryescape · 01/12/2019 04:24

@Louie1980 he wants time and patience but his time has run out if he wants a baby with you. How does he not get that? 39 as you say is very late to be starting trying especially with your added health complications. Sit him down and tell him you don’t have anymore time and it’s now or never. Then see what he says. If he skirts the issue, wants more time etc etc you have to leave him. You want to be a Mum and you can do it on your own. I’m sorry you’re going through this 💐

Mummyoflittledragon · 01/12/2019 04:59

Oliversmum
Gosh yes, I missed that bit I totally agree. He wants kids but not with op.

AgentJohnson · 01/12/2019 07:12

He’s basically convinced you that you are the reason he doesn’t want children right now and that’s simply not true, a child is a stick and a carrot with him and that’s a lot of power to give him. The problem is that neither of you are prepared to admit that he doesn’t want a child. Worse still, you are both continuing to chase a relationship with each other knowing that deep down this is a major incompatibility between you.

Don’t let him use the carrot as a stick to beat you with. By buying into his ‘you are the problem’ reasoning, you are setting in motion a very unhealthy dynamic that will mess up your emotional well-being that will take you further away from having a child.

AlternativePerspective · 01/12/2019 07:25

I can understand why he doesn’t want children with you. You sound unhinged and abusive in your demands and reactions to him. Following him around the house for arguments? Calling and texting repeatedly if he goes out? Seriously if this was a man people would be advising the woman to run for the hills.

I get the desperation to have a baby, but this really isn’t the way to go about it. And to be brutally honest, trying to brow-beat someone into wanting a baby after five minutes is a really bad idea.

I suggest you get some counselling to A, work on your own issues and only then should you consider whether you should have a baby.

Sorry, but if this is the way you act I’m not sure having a baby at all is a good idea. Babies are hard work, they’re not compliant either, they cry, they argue back when they get older. You’re clearly emotionally quite unstable, that’s not a healthy atmosphere to bring a baby into, regardless of whether there’s a father in the equation or not.

SureTry · 01/12/2019 07:33

I think once he moves to the flat, it will be over for you both. Probably not what you wanted to hear.

AgentJohnson · 01/12/2019 07:34

Op squandering time you don’t have with unsuitable men has become a pattern with you.

Hé is not wrong in not wanting a child/ not wanting a child with you but he is wrong in staying in a relationship with you. You are not wrong in wanting a child but you are very mistaken in wanting a child with him.

You can’t bully someone in wanting to have a child and he can’t placate his way out of not having one but it appears that neither of you are adult enough to truly accept that.

Bluntness100 · 01/12/2019 07:46

He doesn't wish a baby now or in the next couple of years. After that who knows. But even he admits this.

Your behavuour though is bordering on bullying him, the hysteria. Chasing him round the house, the constant pressure on him. I think he's scared to say no because he's not ready to loose you.

And this would be different if it was a long term relationship, but basically you started on at him early on, less than a year in.

I get your desperate for a child. But you can't bully and force someone to have a child with you when they aren't ready. It never works, and only ever causes resentment, and it's not right for any child either.

Doubleyouexwhyandzed · 01/12/2019 07:53

It’s so obvious he doesn’t and never had wanted children.
Listen to his ex. He pushed to her have an abortion. He claims their relationship was volatile- exactly what he’s doing to you.
He says it was too hard having a child which he only saw once a week. He’s making you promise to not make him look after it and give him a free pass to swan off for days at a time if he needs it. Unbelievable. Stop being so desperate to have a baby with someone who doesn’t want one.

Having a child with this man would be a monumental mistake. You need to give your head a wobble.

SarahNade · 01/12/2019 08:22

Sorry OP, but he clearly doesn't have manly balls to come right out and say that he does NOT want children. It is so obvious that he will NEVER change his mind, he is selfishly stringing you along and soon it will be too late for you. Why the hell should you spend 10 thousand, just to freeze embryos when you want a baby now? I mean, who does that? He does not want children with you, or with anyone. He does not want them at all, full stop.

The worst thing is, he is gaslighting you - he is making you feel like you are going crazy, and you 'need help', when he is the one who cannot even work out what he wants and when he wants it (if you believe what he says). He is the one who needs help, you sound like a normal woman whose biological clock is ticking and he is being messed around by an emotionally abusive gaslighting manipulator. Get away from him, he is a self-absorbed time waster who will never, ever, ever give you what you want Deep down, I think you know that. Also, you're talking about a baby, before even talking about marriage and I bet he won't commit to you ie marry you. So why even talk babies with him? Bottom line, he is a ball-less coward (and I hope he reads this) who is stringing you along, he is manipulative and emotionally abusive towards you, he is the one who needs therapy, not you. He is employing the DARVO technique - Denying (he is causing the fights and at fault), Attacking (starting fights with you, gaslighting you, telling you that you need help, when the problem is him), Reverse-Victim and Offender (the same as above, he is making out he is the victim and you're not calm, when he is the one who explodes, is angry and not calm, and is blaming you when you've been more than patient I think, and is making out he is the victim instead).

Seriously, he will never give you a baby, he is a waste of time, he is manipulating you, all because he doesn't have the balls to admit he doesn't want a child with you. He is a gaslighter and is emotionally abusing you. He is the one who needs therapy. Not you for simply wanting some honesty in your relationship, instead of the game-playing he is doing. You are worth so much better with him. Get out before he truly does send you mad. He is not worthy of you, at 39, you are too old for his manipulative mind games.

SarahNade · 01/12/2019 08:25

'he is being messed around' should be you are being messed around.

Hairyfairy01 · 01/12/2019 08:38

Relationships shouldn't be hard work, yours clearly is. He's gaslighting you majorly. Get rid of him, concentrate on building up your own support network and have a child on your own.