Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

39 and boyfriend reluctant over a baby

192 replies

Louie1980 · 30/11/2019 12:03

Hi

I'm 39, been with my partner 18 months, he's also 39. We live together. I have no children, he has one aged 15. We're on the verge of breaking up over the issue of children. It breaks my breaks heart because I love him more than I've ever loved anyone. Sorry it is so long, its hard to summarise these things! Any advice would be appreciated as I feel at my wits end.

Just before we moved in together at 8 months, I brought up the issue of children and I feel he didn't react positively. We were in a restaurant, and in what I thought was a romantic moment, I told him I wanted a child with him. Said it hasn't felt right in my last relationship of 18 years because I wasn't that deeply in love with him, I'd almost convinced myself that I didn't want kids as something just didn't ever feel right with him. That for the first time it feels right for me, that he made me laugh so much and we have such a great time together and have so much love that I could picture kids. He said well it's not all roses, they are hard work, they are stress, I guarantee it will change our relationship. Nothing positive! I got upset. He said he feels kinda on the fence, he has one child so doesn't feel a desperate urge, but if I want a child "one day" he could have one. That's the problem, his "one day" when I'm 39!

And basically this cycle has continued for the past year, building up until now where we've exploded. We've got stuck in a cycle where I bring up kids, remind him at 39 it's kind of now or never. I have endometrosis and fibroids so fear I may have ferrility challenges and we'd need to try for a long time anyway.

He says he wants kids but I'm putting too on much pressure. I need to be patient and allow the bond to grow naturally. I say I know we haven't been together that long, and I wish I was 29 not 39 and we could have a good number of years just enjoying each other, but there isnt that time. First 6 months of living together we had a handful of rows about it, admittedly I got hysterical at times, about once a month we'd split up, because it always felt when I brought it up, gently, he would freak out and only say negative things. He says if I could remain calm he would be in a place wanting children. I say if you wanted children I'd be calm!

We've had many hearts to hearts, calm ones, about what's holding him back. He says he had one child with a woman he barely knew and he wants to be sure this time it would be in a relationship that will last. He said just show me calmness and I will want this. So I really tried, we didnt disciss it for a few months, things were lovely, and I asked him if we could try soon maybe in a couple of months and he said yes and much to my delight he started not withdrawing in me straight away. That was July.

Then the next month, I told him it was ovulation time, come and shag me silly and he freaked out. Said it wasnt sexy don't tell him when I'm ovulating. Poured out loads of negative feelings. Said he had shouted at his dog the day before (he does do this annoying high pitched whining) so what if he doesn't have the paience to be a father full time? He had a bad relationship with his own father who was emotionally abusive and uncaring, occasionally physically abusive, who he doesn't speak to. He said what if I'm like my dad? (He wouldn't be anything like that!). Said he's not done full time, hes worried about the feeling you can never have a break/escape. The stress and sleepless nights, says he likes being selfish and his lie ins etc. It wasn't what I wanted to hear but I remained calm, and tried to talk through all his fears and ways to deal with them (I said anytime you need a break, it's fine I'll hold the fort you take yourself off for a few days etc).

But the calmess only lasted so long. He began picking fights with me over small things and we rowed. I was trying to keep calm but failed, he was pushing my buttons. (He has a totally different perspective and feels I've been attacking him, its so frustrating he doesnt see hes always been the one to initiate fights and it feels like sabotage to me). He carried on month after month, half up for trying but not if he got a hint it was my ovulation days suddendly our pasionate sex life would falter (he'd say oh Im tired, but I suppose we have to I'm scared of upsetting you). Things got calm again in October and we tried more properly that month but again he showed reluctance and we stopped trying.

Admittedly, as this issue has continued, I've not handled it well. I break down and cry. He tries to get away from me and I follow him round the house contuining the fight. We stay up till 5am arguing. He leaves and I blow up his phone. I understand where he is coming from, I do get intense and it's not helping. I'm just in a sheer panic now about missing out on children. I also have zero family everyone has died so that makes me emotional too. I told him I really really will try harder but I need him to meet me half way, even if we halt trying, at least start to give me some positive talk. To talk about how lovely kids could be, how we'd bring them up etc.

After five months of this behaviour it's all come to a head. A few weeks ago I realised that I always intiated sex, all year, the whole time we've lived together where he was all over me before. Our sex has always been great so I hadn't really noticed before. I brought it up, asked if it was baby related, said it affected my self esteem. He exploded and said here we go again you cant stay calm (I had been!) this is why my head's not in the right place. He stayed at his mums for a few days, thought we had turned a corner. He came back saying I want kids, began for the first time talking positively and talking through the practicalities (suggested moving near his parents to have their help). Said let's have a couple of months of calm and start again in the New Year. I said fab.

So we have a few weeks of calm and then a few weeks I took his hand and said I bloody adore you, when we try again in Jan can you promise me there'll be no doubts and starting and stopping? He flew off the handle saying I can't stop the pressure. He sent me links to articles about borderline personality disorder and implied I'm mentally ill! I'm not whatsoever! Im a 39 year old woman in a panic I'm missing out on kids. I said it's huge alarm bells that just a month or so before you say youll be ready to start trying for a baby, you react like this. He is putting all the balme on me (all year hes suggested I have counseling - I did - the emphasis is all about how I need to fix myself). I suggested couples counselling, and him having counselling alone to figure out what he wants, but it falls on deaf ears. He swears he wants children with me and its exhausting trying to convince me he loves me. He says his wobbles are just minor things, why can't I show him the patience and hold his hand through his little doubts.

He's now at his mothers and I've suggested a month break. I know and fully agree with him that I need to react better. I'm trying to get across to him it's a two way thing and his behaviour is sabotaging and so triggering, he needs to show me more positivity. Now weve taken a step back, I also feel worried he is (subconsciously not maliciously) gaslighting me. Trying to convince me I'm mentally ill, to project away from the fact he doesnt fully know what he wants and is afraid to commit. He barely talks about his fears of having children, and plays them down, makes out our only problem holding us back is my behaviour.

Some background on him... We've had many heart to hearts about it. He told me when he'd got his "fuck buddy" pregnant he'd known for three weeks in his early 20s (he suspects she trapped him saying she was on the pill) he was devastated. They'd gone to an abortion clinic and just before it was about to happen she ran out saying she couldn't do it. He stood by his child. For 15 years has paid maintenance and seen his son once a week. But he said he felt depressed for many years because he didn't want kids with someone he didn't love/barely knew. He resented giving up nights out staying in with the baby when his friends were all out. Said it contributed to him smoking too much weed to numb himself (something he did for over a decade, he has given it up completely since meeting me). When his son was 6, he felt bad he'd never given the mother of his child a chance romantically and they were together 18 months. He said he didnt ever fall in love with her and she pushed for moving in and they split. They are amicable enough and make it work, but there is underlying tension as she doesn't really involve him in decisions (for example, when he was 6 she was letting him wander off to the park on his own where teens where drinking and smoking, he went nuts, even now she will text him to say been to parents evening weve decided he is dropping this GCSE, so tells him stuff but wouldn't dream of having invited him to parents evening and asking his opinion - he moans about it, but arguably he could find out the date and get himself there!).

He lived with one other girl who got pregnant and had an abortion, they were together 4 years, that ended 7 years ago. She was 11 years younger, said he did love her but age difference challenging, they were volatile and she cheated on him and hed taken her back. It was a different more recent ex of his who I got chatting to in the beginning when I was trying to figure him out, who told me he had "made her" have an abortion. I asked him about it, he said they'd agreed mutually to have an abortion, she was young and studying, he felt the relationship was too volatile. I thought ok fair enough.

I don't know what to do. This has become toxic and both of us feel close to a breakdown so it can't carry on like this. As much as I want a baby, I know it wouldn't be fair to being a child right now into our relationship as it is. I don't want a child where I feel I've held a gun to his head, I only want it if it feels right and both of us are fully on board. I know how having a baby tests the strongest of relationships. I also really don't want to let him go. I feel so sad this issue is destroying a love that felt so wonderful. In between all the drama, we laugh so much and we have always been able to be super affectionate.

I've thought about leaving him and having a sperm donor. But it's not right for me a) I have zero family so would feel completely alone in it and b) I just don't want a baby for the sake of it I want that only in a loving stable family unit.

Rationally, this relationship hasn't turned out how I hoped, but at 39 I don't think it's a good idea to start again and try meet someone else to have a family with. I don't think there would be the time to bond with someone and it could be a disaster to look for a relationship when pinning my hopes and hapiness on a guy to give me my last shot at a family.

And I really love him. I'm so confused. Some days I think ok be smart, get super calm, be patient through his wobbles. You can win him round, we are close. Believe and trust him when he says he wants a child. Then I think ok get real, there have been too many red flags, he's a commitment phobe and it doesnt matter what I say or do. Happiness and all he wants could be right here and he is sabotabing it and I deserve better. I feel angry hes delaying so to ensure biology takes the decision away from us. It's really a pressure cooker also because we were in the middle of moving house, we'd spent two months finding the right place (a doerupper to renovate and make money on), viewed 40 houses. We were so excited about a business venture together. Yesterday I cancelled the house sale with our buyers. I wanted to show him I am on the brink of giving up and I hoped he would have a u turn.

If we both want the same thing like he swears, why is it so hard?! I want him back so much but I'm scared of us just repeating the same pattern. I know I can try a bit harder to give him calmness but I keep saying to him, my emotional outbursts are a symptom, I can try to do better but when the cause, his reluctance, is repeatedly coming out I can only manage that symptom not make it go away.

Have thought about IVF where we freeze our fertilized embryos and wait until things feel right. That that could take the pressure off and allow uus to have a baby only when things are right. He had said it was a great idea. I felt sad thinking it meant if he was prepared to spend £10k plus on that (money we'd have to borrow) he really is not anywhere near close to wanting a baby and so would it be a waste?

I said to him in the beginning, when I met him I was quite enjoying a child free life, and if he'd have told me he didn't want kids I think I'd have stayed with him because I really love him. But this half in half out situation is torturous.

Thoughts please. Am going crazy.

OP posts:
FineWordsForAPorcupine · 30/11/2019 17:05

This sounds like a rough situation, OP. As far as I can see, your options are :

  1. leave the relationship and start immediately pursuing fertility options with a view to being a single parent. Do you have the finances for this?

  2. stay with this man and accept that you will never have children with him.

I don't think there is a third option where you stay together, but find the secret magic words that make him want kids with you. I know you think that if you can just understand his objections, you can counter each one, but I don't think that's possible.

It reminds me of a time when a friend of mine had this brilliant plan that she and I would buy a house together. She had it all worked out, and when I said I didn't really see that happening, she said "that's OK, we'll talk it through and I'll be able to counter any any objections you have".

Guess what? No matter how good her arguments were, we were never going to buy a house together.

Elieza · 30/11/2019 17:06

I’ve just reread your post OP (I sped read it the first time and clearly missed important bits) in light of someone saying you follow him round the house when you are fighting. OMG. That’s completely unacceptable. You should NEVER do that.

You stay up to 5am fighting. Again OMG. That is also unacceptable.

And then you go on to say he’s the one who is gaslighting and blame him for bad behaviour and go on to make it his fault and although you say you should respond better, it does sound like you are blaming him. OMG

No No No. All this bad behaviour because you can’t get what you want. You are an adult. Stop behaving like a child trying to get a you they really want by nagging the living daylights out of a parent.

YOU have a serious attitude problem OP. Not him! I have no idea why that poor guy is still with you. You are obsessed. All you care about is trying to manipulate his feelings on this subject until he has no excuse to say no. If you were the man basically trying to persuade the woman to have a baby that would be coercive control and he would be skated on here. You are disrespecting him and behaving disgracefully. Trying to control his opinions and feelings. No wonder he doesn’t want to instigate sex.

He is on the best place he could be. Away from you, as you are clearly not coping with things and this baby obsession has come from something in your childhood that you've never properly dealt with. Please go to counselling. Please dump the man. Take some time alone to get your head together. Do not breed with this man.

Freeze your eggs now as you can carry them full term at any age it’s just the eggs that go off if they are too old.

I hope you get a grip on things OP. You do need a reality check and I don’t think there is a nice way to say that, sorry.

NoHummus · 30/11/2019 17:14

He doesn't sound very nice. You'd be better off having a child by yourself than with this guy.

FloreanFortescue · 30/11/2019 17:31

He's manipulating your behaviour and emotionally blackmailing you. He's demanding you keep calm and then dangling your wish for a baby until you can't wait any longer and blow up. It's emotionally manipulative and probably a nice souvenir from his father.

Get out now, he is never going to change because he is waiting for your fertile window to close.

fit4more · 30/11/2019 17:42

He’s made somebody have an abortion. He doesn’t want kids and he is manipulating you. You are not going to get what you want from this man. Go it alone.

DeathStare · 30/11/2019 17:43

Your relationship is a complete mess - even leaving aside the issue of whether or not you have children. It is completely unstable and the pair of you seem borderline abusive to each other in different ways. This is absolutely not the type of relationship ANYONE should bring children into (even if they both desperately want them) and to be honest you would both be better off without it.

Getting onto the issue of children - HE DOES NOT WANT THEM. I think he is too mixed up and pressured to actually come out and say that in words, but his actions are quite clearly telling you that. There is no way in hell he would be saying that he wanted a child if you weren't pressuring him.

He has also shown over the last 15 years that he is a lousy father - and there is nothing in him that is now saying he recognises that or wants to be different.

You need out of this relationship for your - and his - sanity. Forget whether you have a child with anyone else - maybe you will not or maybe you won't - but either way having a child with him would be a big mistake for you, for him and for the child. You are the one pushing for this and you really need to stop. Just leave.

MrsNoMopp · 30/11/2019 17:54

There are several warning bells in your post, OP. He is gaslighting you, saying you are "attacking" him when all you want is clarity. He is not straightforward or courageous. He is stringing you along unfairly with promises of "one day" when he knows full well that women's fertility declines and that you also have endo. He's trying to put you off by saying children are hard work, but everyone knows that. He is cowardly and can't bring himself to say that actually he doesn't want any more children, so sends out a smokescreen of vague waffle. He sounds selfish and not willing to put any work into your relationship. Bin, LTB and see where your life goes next.

user1481840227 · 30/11/2019 18:01

He doesn't want a child, it's clear as day he is only saying that so that he can control your emotional reactions and stop you from bringing it up...telling you to stay calm all the time, that would drive anyone insane.

As if the mother of his child trapped him if they were only fuck buddies for a few weeks!!

His other ex got pregnant and had an abortion, or was there 2 exes who had abortions? It's a bit confusing. Either way one of them told you that he made them have one!

Going by everything that you've written I know who I believe!! and it's certainly not him!!

MirenaManiac · 30/11/2019 18:17

I think @Sandals19 got it spot on. Pragmatic advice, if you read it properly. It's not idealistic but it is practical :

*Well you either leave and try to meet someone else, or go it alone.

Or you day not a word about anything (since apparently it's your insecurities and outbursts that are making him not want to try to a baby now - hmm), have sex around the right time, try to get pregnant etc.

But I think you'll end up a single mum.

(And that's if he's doesn't successfully coerce you to have an abortion first).

If you're ok with being a single mum (and he has a track record of paying, even though otherwise he sounds unenthusiastic) then go ahead.*

You have got to stop following him around rowing OP. He's allowed to walk away from an argument.

Happy ever after is unlikely to happen with this man. If you are desperate to be a mother, keep quiet, see what happens, but be realistic - if you get pregnant you will probably end up a single mum - but you might not. If he ends up paying maintenance - that's the price he pays for stringing you along. If he's certain he doesn't want kids then he should be using condoms or get the snip.

Even if you were in a dreamy relationship, you couldn't guarantee it would continue. Plenty of women end up alone having thought they'd found The One.

Louie1980 · 30/11/2019 18:23

Thank you all for your messages. We met for a cuppa before, in public which helped us stay nice and calm, and we had a productive talk. He has seen these replies and he understands why it appears he doesn't want another child but he still insists that's not accurate. That he does but wants a calm environment and for me to work on my anxiety issues. We decided a month break would be a good idea and he has found a flat to go to tenporarily. The idea is to use this time for me to work on myself and I've also asked him to think about what he really wants, and generally just to stop the damage that's happening and heal. We both agree even if we get back together in January, we are not in the right place for a baby and won't be for some time. We discussed having IVF to freeze embyros (I could freeze some unferilised eggs just in case), and how nice it would be to get back together and spend a year or two with the eggs there frozen and the pressure off, and just enjoying each other again. He said he would pay £100,000 to be able to keep the option of a child with me but when the time is right. Of course I am worried it's become such a mess there is too much damage. But I know we definitely need time apart for our sanities and whether it works out or not I do need to address my anxieties on my own. Thanks for your help.

OP posts:
IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 30/11/2019 18:24

Eighteen months is barely anything, I’d run a mile from anyone suggesting trying to conceive after such a short period of time.

It’s still the honeymoon phase and if all isn’t rosy now then it’s not going to last the distance.

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea · 30/11/2019 18:25

He doesn't want children. And the relationship doesn't sound strong. I'm sorry. But bringing a child into this scenario sounds like a recipe for absolute disaster.

DemelzaandRoss · 30/11/2019 18:30

It’s all very stressful & hurtful for you. It may be best to come to terms with the fact that this relationship is never going to work. Fast forwarding a few years, he will always feel resentful & it would not be a happy situation to bring up a child in. Your future child is the most important aspect here. Why inflict him/her with a father who really did not ever want to be a father again? Start planning for your future but not with this man.

PumpkinPieAlibi · 30/11/2019 18:35

If a man were trying to convince his partner to have a baby ASAP and she clearly wasn't ready yet, he'd rightly be called abusive and controlling. That opening post was so intense that I can't imagine what it would be like living with that intensity for a year about a situation I made clear that I did NOT even want.

This sounds so unhealthy and angsty, it just doesn't seem worth it.

NoHummus · 30/11/2019 18:50

Your update makes him sound even worse. He wants you to work on your issues?! He'd pay £100,000?! He is emotionally manipulating you and in your desperation you are falling for it. Do yourself a favour and make the break permanent.

RolytheRhino · 30/11/2019 18:51

I think he's right to want to wait before rushing into having a child with you and it's unfortunate that time is not on your side.

If I were you, I'd go with the frozen embryo plan if you can afford it, particularly as you have fertility issues that mean you may need IVF anyway.

Good luck with everything.

YouJustDoYou · 30/11/2019 19:01

Yeah.. He's doing what a lot of men do, buying time by saying what the woman wants to hear. He's right though by saying things need to be calm. If you're like this now, having a baby will exasperated everything a million fold.

user1481840227 · 30/11/2019 19:02

Does he actually have 100k or is that just something he said that made him sound like he was dead serious about this? kind of like "I'd take a bullet for you"!

What's he going to work on during the month if you're going to work on your issues? just think about what he wants?
The update doesn't sound very hopeful at all to me, just more of the same!!

Iggi999 · 30/11/2019 19:05

Ah bless. The "solution" is for you to be apart over Christmas, go through a costly medical procedure and wait a couple of fucking years to possibly implant them. You are never having a baby OP and he has played you big time.

AnneLovesGilbert · 30/11/2019 19:17

You obviously won’t, but you really should walk away, now. The whole thing is completely toxic and you’re miserable and going to stay that way.

MadamBatty · 30/11/2019 19:30

Look up freezing 39 year old eggsOP & the chance of a successful pregnancy from frozen eggs.

You keep mentioning being ‘calm’ when your posts indicate that your whole being is screaming I want a baby with a hand on father & to live in a lovely perfect happy ever after world.

It’s not going to happen with this man from what you post.

You’d really make better use of your time & energy getting some counselling sorting out your thoughts & either going for single motherhood or accepting that what you want I not going to happen.

This might seem mean or cruel to you but you’re torturing yourself at the moment

Sunflower20 · 30/11/2019 19:32

He doesn't want a baby. You shouldn't hang onto that idea. Plus he seems like a total fuckboy - smoking weed to cope with reality, getting women pregnant left right and centre, does he not understand contraception or something? What a bellend.

freeingNora · 30/11/2019 19:33

He actually sounds like the wrong person to have a child with he's not for you. Think of this as the sunken costs fallacy

He's also stringing you along abit. And you deserve the whole loaf not crumbs

If you want to be proactive head to the zita west clinic get your fertility profile done this will put you in control knowledge is everything. Then you can make informed decisions

He's told you how he's feeling it's perhaps time you believed him

carly2803 · 30/11/2019 19:37

with respect - stop trying to desperately convince yourself you can change his mind. He does not want children.
he has made that very clear but you are not listening.

Cut and run now, go it alone or meet someone very quickly!

Clymene · 30/11/2019 19:42

I can tell you three things OP

  1. He doesn't want a baby
  2. He doesn't want to break up with you so is saying all kinds of shit to keep you
  3. The chance of you finding a clinic agreeing to freeze your 39 year old eggs is slim to none. Because the chance of you conceiving from the is slim to none.