39 and boyfriend reluctant over a baby

[Louie1980]

Hi

I'm 39, been with my partner 18 months, he's also 39. We live together. I have no children, he has one aged 15. We're on the verge of breaking up over the issue of children. It breaks my breaks heart because I love him more than I've ever loved anyone. Sorry it is so long, its hard to summarise these things! Any advice would be appreciated as I feel at my wits end.

Just before we moved in together at 8 months, I brought up the issue of children and I feel he didn't react positively. We were in a restaurant, and in what I thought was a romantic moment, I told him I wanted a child with him. Said it hasn't felt right in my last relationship of 18 years because I wasn't that deeply in love with him, I'd almost convinced myself that I didn't want kids as something just didn't ever feel right with him. That for the first time it feels right for me, that he made me laugh so much and we have such a great time together and have so much love that I could picture kids. He said well it's not all roses, they are hard work, they are stress, I guarantee it will change our relationship. Nothing positive! I got upset. He said he feels kinda on the fence, he has one child so doesn't feel a desperate urge, but if I want a child "one day" he could have one. That's the problem, his "one day" when I'm 39!

And basically this cycle has continued for the past year, building up until now where we've exploded. We've got stuck in a cycle where I bring up kids, remind him at 39 it's kind of now or never. I have endometrosis and fibroids so fear I may have ferrility challenges and we'd need to try for a long time anyway.

He says he wants kids but I'm putting too on much pressure. I need to be patient and allow the bond to grow naturally. I say I know we haven't been together that long, and I wish I was 29 not 39 and we could have a good number of years just enjoying each other, but there isnt that time. First 6 months of living together we had a handful of rows about it, admittedly I got hysterical at times, about once a month we'd split up, because it always felt when I brought it up, gently, he would freak out and only say negative things. He says if I could remain calm he would be in a place wanting children. I say if you wanted children I'd be calm!

We've had many hearts to hearts, calm ones, about what's holding him back. He says he had one child with a woman he barely knew and he wants to be sure this time it would be in a relationship that will last. He said just show me calmness and I will want this. So I really tried, we didnt disciss it for a few months, things were lovely, and I asked him if we could try soon maybe in a couple of months and he said yes and much to my delight he started not withdrawing in me straight away. That was July.

Then the next month, I told him it was ovulation time, come and shag me silly and he freaked out. Said it wasnt sexy don't tell him when I'm ovulating. Poured out loads of negative feelings. Said he had shouted at his dog the day before (he does do this annoying high pitched whining) so what if he doesn't have the paience to be a father full time? He had a bad relationship with his own father who was emotionally abusive and uncaring, occasionally physically abusive, who he doesn't speak to. He said what if I'm like my dad? (He wouldn't be anything like that!). Said he's not done full time, hes worried about the feeling you can never have a break/escape. The stress and sleepless nights, says he likes being selfish and his lie ins etc. It wasn't what I wanted to hear but I remained calm, and tried to talk through all his fears and ways to deal with them (I said anytime you need a break, it's fine I'll hold the fort you take yourself off for a few days etc).

But the calmess only lasted so long. He began picking fights with me over small things and we rowed. I was trying to keep calm but failed, he was pushing my buttons. (He has a totally different perspective and feels I've been attacking him, its so frustrating he doesnt see hes always been the one to initiate fights and it feels like sabotage to me). He carried on month after month, half up for trying but not if he got a hint it was my ovulation days suddendly our pasionate sex life would falter (he'd say oh Im tired, but I suppose we have to I'm scared of upsetting you). Things got calm again in October and we tried more properly that month but again he showed reluctance and we stopped trying.

Admittedly, as this issue has continued, I've not handled it well. I break down and cry. He tries to get away from me and I follow him round the house contuining the fight. We stay up till 5am arguing. He leaves and I blow up his phone. I understand where he is coming from, I do get intense and it's not helping. I'm just in a sheer panic now about missing out on children. I also have zero family everyone has died so that makes me emotional too. I told him I really really will try harder but I need him to meet me half way, even if we halt trying, at least start to give me some positive talk. To talk about how lovely kids could be, how we'd bring them up etc.

After five months of this behaviour it's all come to a head. A few weeks ago I realised that I always intiated sex, all year, the whole time we've lived together where he was all over me before. Our sex has always been great so I hadn't really noticed before. I brought it up, asked if it was baby related, said it affected my self esteem. He exploded and said here we go again you cant stay calm (I had been!) this is why my head's not in the right place. He stayed at his mums for a few days, thought we had turned a corner. He came back saying I want kids, began for the first time talking positively and talking through the practicalities (suggested moving near his parents to have their help). Said let's have a couple of months of calm and start again in the New Year. I said fab.

So we have a few weeks of calm and then a few weeks I took his hand and said I bloody adore you, when we try again in Jan can you promise me there'll be no doubts and starting and stopping? He flew off the handle saying I can't stop the pressure. He sent me links to articles about borderline personality disorder and implied I'm mentally ill! I'm not whatsoever! Im a 39 year old woman in a panic I'm missing out on kids. I said it's huge alarm bells that just a month or so before you say youll be ready to start trying for a baby, you react like this. He is putting all the balme on me (all year hes suggested I have counseling - I did - the emphasis is all about how I need to fix myself). I suggested couples counselling, and him having counselling alone to figure out what he wants, but it falls on deaf ears. He swears he wants children with me and its exhausting trying to convince me he loves me. He says his wobbles are just minor things, why can't I show him the patience and hold his hand through his little doubts.

He's now at his mothers and I've suggested a month break. I know and fully agree with him that I need to react better. I'm trying to get across to him it's a two way thing and his behaviour is sabotaging and so triggering, he needs to show me more positivity. Now weve taken a step back, I also feel worried he is (subconsciously not maliciously) gaslighting me. Trying to convince me I'm mentally ill, to project away from the fact he doesnt fully know what he wants and is afraid to commit. He barely talks about his fears of having children, and plays them down, makes out our only problem holding us back is my behaviour.

Some background on him... We've had many heart to hearts about it. He told me when he'd got his "fuck buddy" pregnant he'd known for three weeks in his early 20s (he suspects she trapped him saying she was on the pill) he was devastated. They'd gone to an abortion clinic and just before it was about to happen she ran out saying she couldn't do it. He stood by his child. For 15 years has paid maintenance and seen his son once a week. But he said he felt depressed for many years because he didn't want kids with someone he didn't love/barely knew. He resented giving up nights out staying in with the baby when his friends were all out. Said it contributed to him smoking too much weed to numb himself (something he did for over a decade, he has given it up completely since meeting me). When his son was 6, he felt bad he'd never given the mother of his child a chance romantically and they were together 18 months. He said he didnt ever fall in love with her and she pushed for moving in and they split. They are amicable enough and make it work, but there is underlying tension as she doesn't really involve him in decisions (for example, when he was 6 she was letting him wander off to the park on his own where teens where drinking and smoking, he went nuts, even now she will text him to say been to parents evening weve decided he is dropping this GCSE, so tells him stuff but wouldn't dream of having invited him to parents evening and asking his opinion - he moans about it, but arguably he could find out the date and get himself there!).

He lived with one other girl who got pregnant and had an abortion, they were together 4 years, that ended 7 years ago. She was 11 years younger, said he did love her but age difference challenging, they were volatile and she cheated on him and hed taken her back. It was a different more recent ex of his who I got chatting to in the beginning when I was trying to figure him out, who told me he had "made her" have an abortion. I asked him about it, he said they'd agreed mutually to have an abortion, she was young and studying, he felt the relationship was too volatile. I thought ok fair enough.

I don't know what to do. This has become toxic and both of us feel close to a breakdown so it can't carry on like this. As much as I want a baby, I know it wouldn't be fair to being a child right now into our relationship as it is. I don't want a child where I feel I've held a gun to his head, I only want it if it feels right and both of us are fully on board. I know how having a baby tests the strongest of relationships. I also really don't want to let him go. I feel so sad this issue is destroying a love that felt so wonderful. In between all the drama, we laugh so much and we have always been able to be super affectionate.

I've thought about leaving him and having a sperm donor. But it's not right for me a) I have zero family so would feel completely alone in it and b) I just don't want a baby for the sake of it I want that only in a loving stable family unit.

Rationally, this relationship hasn't turned out how I hoped, but at 39 I don't think it's a good idea to start again and try meet someone else to have a family with. I don't think there would be the time to bond with someone and it could be a disaster to look for a relationship when pinning my hopes and hapiness on a guy to give me my last shot at a family.

And I really love him. I'm so confused. Some days I think ok be smart, get super calm, be patient through his wobbles. You can win him round, we are close. Believe and trust him when he says he wants a child. Then I think ok get real, there have been too many red flags, he's a commitment phobe and it doesnt matter what I say or do. Happiness and all he wants could be right here and he is sabotabing it and I deserve better. I feel angry hes delaying so to ensure biology takes the decision away from us. It's really a pressure cooker also because we were in the middle of moving house, we'd spent two months finding the right place (a doerupper to renovate and make money on), viewed 40 houses. We were so excited about a business venture together. Yesterday I cancelled the house sale with our buyers. I wanted to show him I am on the brink of giving up and I hoped he would have a u turn.

If we both want the same thing like he swears, why is it so hard?! I want him back so much but I'm scared of us just repeating the same pattern. I know I can try a bit harder to give him calmness but I keep saying to him, my emotional outbursts are a symptom, I can try to do better but when the cause, his reluctance, is repeatedly coming out I can only manage that symptom not make it go away.

Have thought about IVF where we freeze our fertilized embryos and wait until things feel right. That that could take the pressure off and allow uus to have a baby only when things are right. He had said it was a great idea. I felt sad thinking it meant if he was prepared to spend £10k plus on that (money we'd have to borrow) he really is not anywhere near close to wanting a baby and so would it be a waste?

I said to him in the beginning, when I met him I was quite enjoying a child free life, and if he'd have told me he didn't want kids I think I'd have stayed with him because I really love him. But this half in half out situation is torturous.

Thoughts please. Am going crazy.

Think, OP. You were perfectly calm and normal for 39 years, including 18 in a committed LTR ... and suddenly you're a raving nut case who needs to be kept "calm"? What's changed?

Um, him.

Get rid of him, freeze your eggs if you want, I imagine your sanity will miraculously re-emerge once this twerp is gone.

Google "the headworker".

So he’s got you to wait/postpone again.

Honestly go do it yourself. If he want to be with you and have a child he would. It’s that simple.

My sil has give up the idea of having children for bil. He already has kids too. It’s just made her feel bitter/resentment and sorrow for the child she’s never going to have. That feeling never goes away

He is still expecting you to work on your issues without owning that he has any of his own. His last relationship was volatile and so is this one. That isn’t a coincidence. Read the thread again and look what people are saying about him. Your relationship is a car crash right now and he holds just as much responsibility as you.

He doesn't want kids.

He sometimes says he does to keep you dangling as he doesn't want you to leave him. Actions speak louder than words.

He's hoping to fob you off for long enough that it's too late for you to think you have a chance of having kids with someone else if you leave him.

The relationship sounds toxic.

Please please go to an ivf clinic quickly and pay privately if you can for tests. I'm sorry to say that they may well tell you your eggs are not viable for freezing at your age with your issues. Success with frozen eggs, especially 39 year old ones, is so low. Frozen embryos have higher chances but you need sperm and even then the chances are low.

Please dont bank on ivf as the golden answer. It really isnt. It's expensive, soul destroying and largely unsuccessful (success rates for own eggs are at most 30%). You really dont realise until you start ivf just how unsuccessful it is. Because we all know people who have ivf children we assume it's successful but the fail rates would be so unacceptable in and other industry. You have at least a 70% chance of failure every round of treatment even at the best clinics.

Please focus your thought onto choosing between this man and a child free life or trying for a baby on your own. Or even a child free life without this man. You may not discount donor sperm once you have put some thought into it and got used to the idea.

I've had loads.of ivf and have felt the desperation with a man who didnt want a baby. In the end my eggs were useless as i waited too long. You need to be selfish and think what you need not what he needs. Hes already got a couple.of people accidentally pregnant so he will never understand your desperation. If you start trying with him and it doesn't work he is unlikely to move on to ivf with you as that is another level of horrendousness.

I feel your pain having been in a similar situation. I think your kidding yourself that you would be happy with this man and accept never having children. Good luck

Totally disagree with @PicsInRed. OP, you are just as much the issue here as he is. You have NOT anywhere near done the work you need to in your therapy sessions- and I speak as someone who had attachment disorder who spent 7 years in therapy. Your behaviour is emotionally manipulative, coercive and emotionally immature. You have admitted screaming, following him round the house, staying up till 5am, endless phone calls, frequent break ups, AND you manipulated the end of your house sale because you wanted him to think you were serious about breaking up so that he would come running back to you saying he wanted a baby after all. This is NOT healthy adult behaviour. I hope you can at least see that? You are not conducting this relationship like an adult. (Neither is he, but that's another story). You are responsible for you. I would be extremely seriously worried if you were to be pregnant now, as there is no doubt you are not emotionally ready to have a child or raise a child with a secure attachment since you have not done the work to heal your own. I know it is hard but it takes more than a couple of months of counselling. You need to be honest with yourself.

Also, you need to seriously educate yourself about IVF and egg freezing- I have experience of this too and there is no way a clinic will advise you that egg freezing is a good idea at 39! You seem to be very naive about fertility treatment and think that egg freezing is a magic wand- it is not. I'm surprised you not even gone and had the basic fertility assessments to know what you're dealing with. Hopefully not, but with your endometriosis there's a chance you might even be infertile- surely you should be tracking this otherwise all this drama could be pointless.

I'm sorry that things haven't worked out as you would have wanted. But your relationship is toxic, the pair of you are incapable of relating in a healthy adult manner, you are volatile and have zero respect for one another. This is no environment in which to bring a baby. The stress levels would only go through the roof and the child would be the victim. Do you want your child to grow up with attachment disorder too?

Sort yourself out and heal from your attachment disorder, and learn to have adult relationships. Learn to change the volatile behaviour. Leave this toxic relationship. Investigate fertility treatments properly. Then work out your next step.

@Louie1980

I don't think you sound mentally stable to be a parent at all. Your update makes it sound even worse and I think you are setting yourself up to a very bad future

I'd say see ya, you want children he doesn't, this is no ones fault, you both want different things. I'd go after the thing you really want which is children and leave him behind. At 39 and childless this is what I'd be focusing on

Further on posters comments about IVF success rates (and related to your freeze and wait plan) ... I'm no expert but I've read that IVF around 40 may actually be less likely to be successful than trying to get pregnant naturally because IVF involved stimulation to produce as many eggs as possible, then fertilised and jnplanted; which circumvents your own natural "curation" of quality eggs i.e. won't be released or wont be successfully fertilised (or if they are so not stay implanted so you wouldnt even know you're pregnant unless you're testing like mad and see it as a "chemical pregnancy" before it disintegrates).

What I'm trying to day is that you may be more likely to get a successful pregnancy naturally than with IVF around/after 40 (with your own eggs) .. therefore the freezing and waiting a year or two may be a flawed strategy.

As an aside have you been on the fertility/TTC boards on here; very informative, lots of info, lots of personal experiences etc.

*involves

And if you were to opt for the TTC now route rather than the freeze and IVF route, another reason not to wait is that your chance per month/cycle is dropping and your risk of foetal abnormalities is rising as you approach and go past 40.

As another poster/s said, it seems really important that you go and get a fertility check to give you a picture (it will not be perfect, there's only so much they can tell and they can be wrong in their predictions, as women I know have proven (ina good way)) but it will at least give you some info from which to try to make decisions.

If it's the NHS, they'll want to know you've been ttc for 6 months (if over 35 I believe) and they'd start with ruling out issues in the make partner (sperm analysis essentially) before moving on to you (hormone tests, fallopian tubes clear etc. Sorry I don't know about endo) so you'd both have to be on board with that.

Privately fertility clinics etc could do a check on you and I don't think (don't quote me) it costs a huge amount of money.

*male partner

There are also things you can do yourself obviously - there are basic FSH/fertility urine tests available in pharmacies, and of course ovulation tests & trackers to confirm if and when you're ovulating. In addition to the clearblue etc tests/tracker, people are saying good things about the Ava bracelet and another device like a tampon the name of which I've forgotten. (They're both pretty pricey though).

Re: egg freezing at 39

www.thecut.com/2016/06/best-age-to-freeze-your-eggs.html

You said you want to have a child in a stable family unit, but your relationship is incredibly unstable.

From what he's said, he'll be straight out of the door when it gets tough, i.e immediatley with a baby. So you'll be where you would be with a sperm donor anyway.

I really doubt you are going to get a baby and successful relationship with this man.
If you really want to have a baby, use a sperm donor. Are you on good terms with your ex of 18 years? Would he be interested in having a baby with you out of a relationship, if he's a good person and would be a good father?

Where did the borderline personality disorder accusation come from? You do seem to be experiencing extreme emotions, have you ever self harmed?

Hi, I have been googling about egg freezing at 39 and the chances do not look good. Plus the higher rate of miscarriage, genetic defects and birth complications. The expense and stress doesn't seem worth it really.

It has hit me that I'm behaving like a loon, and allowed my desepration to take over and that yes, I am not respecting his needs.

He hasn't behaved perfect but he can't help having doubts and I have contributed to a toxic situation.

I don't want to try for a baby alone, due to lack of family but also I don't want to do it alone, so I am not so desperate for a baby or I would do it anyway.

I feel so sad that I have done so much damage to my relationship. I know from what I've written it sounds a toxic mess, and it is, but there has really been something very special there too. I'm hoping I have turned a corner and it can be saved. It would be a huge relief to forget about children and embrace a childfree life, with or without my boyfriend. I've simply weighed up that the stress in pursuing it with so much not being right is just not worth it and I should look for other ways to be happy.

@Oxfordcat, this guy sounds like he is a gaslighter, constantly blaming her and saying she needs to remain calm (even when she is calm) That is crazy making.
There are definitely echos of the water torturer in him, remaining calm and making out she's the mental one.

It is absolutely clear as day from what the OP has said about him that he has massive issues related to having children.

There's no way a fuck buddy of 3 weeks trapped him and got pregnant on purpose. They went to an abortion clinic and she ran out saying she couldn't do it, in light of everything else he said I would assume that he put a huge amount of pressure on her to go for an abortion (not unusual I suppose after 3 weeks, but then the OP goes on to tell us a lot more about him and abortions)

She said he 'stood by his child', but what she said doesn't exactly suggest he was in any way a great father, paying maintenance is a legal obligation, he saw the child once a week? one night a week but he resented that because he missed out on going out with his friends? He became depressed because he had a child with someone he didn't love? Oh come on!! Smoked weed for over a decade to numb the pain of that?

It's also a clear lie that when he got together with the childs mum that it was because he felt bad that he hadn't given her a chance! Constant complaining that he's not really involved in the parenting decisions, but no effort to become more involved!

It's not clear from one part of her post, if he had had 2 other exes who had have had abortions, but one woman has definitely told the OP that he 'made' her have an abortion.

He is clearly 100% lying to the OP that he wants a baby...and telling her it will happen when she changes all these things about herself, such as asking and remaining 'calm'. It couldn't be any more obvious what he's doing. I can guarantee that if she accidentally fell pregnant he would put an insane amount of pressure on her to have an abortion.

It's not special, it's an addiction.

Come on OP, you've got to open your eyes here. He's telling you what you want to hear because your chances will be slim by the time he "agrees" to let you have a child.

You'll be in the same situation in 2 years, only you'll be 2 years older. He's a manipulative bastard.

If Op, you are terrified of being alone and you think saying you don't want kids will help you 'keep' him, be aware the relationship could end at anytime.

@user1481840227 I agree and I never said he wasn't part of the problem. I said he was, and that they are BOTH toxic. On the contrary, the OP has said there have been plenty of times where she was far from calm, hysterical in fact. They are both at fault but the OP can't change another person. She can change her own behaviour and make healthy decisions for her.

@OxfordCat, I did read that she said she was hysterical at times, but the context of the rest of the relationship can't be ignored there either. If someone acts in that crazy-making way it can make then the person on the receiving end of it is often on edge and ready to react and defend themselves at all time.

It absolutely seems like a toxic relationship, I just don't personally think the OP seems toxic, Completely agree that she can change her own behaviour and make healthy decisions for her, I just don't think it will be possible in this relationship, and it appears as though that the conclusion she's after coming to is that yes she was the toxic one and poor him.... she's ruined everything. I just think it's very sad!

Someone who is unsure about having a child will never be put off more than having someone romantically whispering in their ear 'it's ovulation time'.

OP your DP may have been sat on the fence about a baby but your desperation is enough to scare the crap out of all but the broodiest of men.

Take this time apart from DP to work on yourself. I think you possibly need counselling to help you deal with your emotions over having a baby or not because it really isn't healthy to be this obsessed with anything to the point where you are destroying your relationship.

If you do get back with DP please forget about having a baby for a while. Focus on rebuilding your relationship. If in a year or two he is happy to try, simply stop taking your birth control and forget that you are TTC. Don't think about ovulation dates. Just focus on having fun with him. The more stressed you are, the less likely you will be to fall pregnant. Try and have a philosophical view of if it is meant to be then it will happen. I have endometriosis and this approach worked for me at 38.

I know it feels complicated my love but it isn't.

I don't know what to do. This has become toxic and both of us feel close to a breakdown so it can't carry on like this. As much as I want a baby, I know it wouldn't be fair to being a child right now into our relationship as it is

That's it. You have it bang on right there. You aren't on the same page.

No amount of you wanting it can outweigh him not wanting it enough.

I'm sorry, this isn't the right relationship to bring a child into.

It sounds like neither of you want to split up on paper but also neither of you can / will concede on the baby issue, which is fair enough on his part as well as yours.

This sounds brutal but as someone who desperately wants to be a mum eventually who has left a man I adored and is lovely but is terrified of fatherhood... what do you want more, a baby or this man?

Sometimes it sounds brutal but you have to make a decision or you'll be playing this game with him for longer and longer with no guarantee of what you want.

have been googling about egg freezing at 39 and the chances do not look good. Plus the higher rate of miscarriage, genetic defects and birth complications. The expense and stress doesn't seem worth it really.

As I mentioned above your chances of getting pregnant naturally may actually be better than your chances with IVF around 40.

There are rising rates of miscarriage, birth defects and complications but it is important to note that the majority of women still have trouble free pregnancies. The most common syndrome, Downs, is approx 1 in 100 at 40 I believe, which is conversely 99/100 people unaffected. The other syndromes are rarer.

I know many women who've had issue free pregnancies and births over 39 and the no of women having kids in their 40s has now overtaken the no having them under 20 in the UK. Where I'm from, for religious etc reasons until recently many many women had kids until their fertility dropped off, which was 43 ish (sometimes older). Most children did not have Downs or any health issues.

When I was at school both our neighbour and my school mate's mum got pregnant naturally at 45; both are a bit dippy tbh and I think their pregnancies were the result of dippiness rather than very exceptional fertility (is the same couldve happened to plenty more mid 40s women but they were using contraception reliably).

What I'm saying is don't get overwhelmed and negative with all the warnings, risks and doom & gloom; it may be perfectly possible for you to have a child sometime in the (near-ish) future with your dp or another dp.