Reconciliation after estrangement?

[Albinoni]

I have NC'd for this but have posted in the past about my relationship with DD1 and was grateful for the advice and support which I received. The posts have since been deleted, at my request, but some of you may remember 'Lobster Boy', and my concerns that DD was in a controlling relationship and that I risked losing her.

Unfortunately, my fears were justified as DD seemed to become more and more withdrawn from the family, saying that her BF was her family now. She ghosted all of the family entirely for six months - apparently she just blocked us all - then there were occasional calls and she did send birthday cards etc. She moved house without providing an address and we didn't see her for two and a half years. I cannot begin to describe how painful that period was for me and DH and her sisters, but those of you who have been through this process of living bereavement will understand.

Anyway, the good news is that there has been a reconciliation following a lunch on neutral ground, in a restaurant, earlier this year (she lives hundreds of miles away from us). Prior to that, she had provided her address, so that we could send some books to her which are relevant to a course which she is intending to take next year. At the lunch, she said that they had married the previous year, and we said how pleased we were, and contact continued to improve.

The following month they asked if they could borrow some money to put towards buying a property and we agreed. Shortly after that, DD told me she was expecting a baby (due any day now), which I was overjoyed about. Then, a few weeks after that - and this is the part I am really struggling with - we received a letter from DD and SIL enclosing photos of the 14 month old which they already had. The accompanying letter was quite upsetting as it said they hadn't told us about DGC because they didn't want her to experience broken relationships and they hadn't been sure whether or not they wanted us involved at all, but they felt guilty at taking our money and not telling us about DGC.

DD and I subsequently had an emotional conversation and, since then, DD has been in contact with me virtually every day with messages and photos and is behaving almost as though nothing has happened. She says I can't think about the past or what I have missed and clearly wants to move forward. I know that she is right in that we cannot change the past and she assures me that she definitely does want us to be involved.

But I am in such turmoil over this. Obviously I am thrilled and excited about the reconciliation and the DGC, but I feel so desperately hurt and upset that she didn't tell any of us about all of these things, especially as I believed that we were close before. I am really struggling, to be honest, although it's early days and there is a lot to come to terms with.

We haven't met DGC1 yet as I think we both felt that it would be better to wait for the baby to be born and then meet them both together, when the emotions have died down a bit. The last thing I want to do is cause her any stress at this time and I sense that they are anxious at our meeting her PILs for the first time. I am also anxious about it, although they sound like lovely people and have been very supportive to DD. But goodness knows what they must think of us. I am also worried about becoming attached to the DGC in case they are taken away from me. I just couldn't put myself through all that again.

So I was wondering if anyone could give me advice if you have been in a similar situation. How easy was it to reconcile? Did the whole family reconcile or was it a piecemeal process? Did you involve any professional help, such as a counsellor or family mediator? Has it worked out? Are things the same and can the relationship ever really recover or is it just different? I really don't want to mess this up, as I have realised how fragile relationships can be, but I am feeling a bit overwhelmed.

Albinoni - I am sending this divine little piece of Mozart to you this morning. m.youtube.com/watch?v=a_0FHyF3Pyk

Albinoni your rage and bitterness towards is totally appropriate and proportionate and is now amplified further by your DH’s health.

They have continued to behave appallingly, relentlessly abusively and exploitively for years - and it doesn’t seem that this dark turn of events has changed their behaviour.

What have they done proactively to show support and love during this time?

However you need to not let them traumatise you further as you need your finite headspace, physical and emotional energy preserved, conserved and prioritised for your DH.

I think that the advice given earlier in the thread about cutting your exposure to their texts, photos, calls etc will give you the space to catch your breath so that you can heal this wound in order to focus back on your DH.

I'm sure you have thought of this, but if your wills leave money split between each of your children and their children, with the grandchildren's held in trust, please don't put DD2 and DD3 in a position where LB can act as a trustee for their children. If DD1 is a trustee he will have effective control

m.youtube.com/watch?v=6ftMrhTqaoY

This is a short video about trauma bonding - there might be something in this that speaks to your current distress.

Just popping in to wish you Dh dd2 and 3 a well and send positive thoughts .

I agree with Guttertons post re dd1 and lb. Appalling behaviour.

Hope you had a lovely Mexican today, we did the same when DH was diagnosed and the waiter was over the top chatty asking us what occasion we were celebrating and we all sat there awkwardly then giggled stupidly when he left. It was a good thing to do.

Sending you all the positive thoughts for the next few days. I do think it’s good that even though it’s for the most awful reason your focus has moved away from dd1 and lb and it has put things into perspective. 💐

Hope you all enjoy your Mexican meal today.

Good that they are moving forward with the tests, it seems endless though doesn’t it?

You certainly do not sound heartless - you sound the polar opposite. It’s LB and DD 1 who sound heartless .

You are absolutely right to stay out of any of DD1 and LB’s plans and decisions as if you get involved anything that goes wrong will most certainly be, as you say, your fault. That is his/her/their default position.
It’s exactly the same with our situation DD and her BF blame us
( well mainly me ) for everything that goes wrong. In our case some of what I am held responsible for would be laughable if it wasn’t so sad .

Its understandable that you feel you have missed out on some joyful occasions but might it help to think what those occasions, (bearing in mind LB was involved ) would have realistically been like ? How joyful would they have been ? Would he have allowed you to be properly involved? Would you have felt unwelcome ? It may not have been like that of course but it’s easy to put rose tinted glasses on when thinking about what you’ve missed.

Sending you strength for the weeks ahead . Xxx

I would not even put DD1 in the will, her share would be for any of her DC after they turn 25. DD1 doesn’t feel she is part of your family, then she shouldn’t share any of the inheritance from your family.

I would also stop giving her money, paying the rent while they study, they think of you as an easy target. Your DD is influenced by LB and he intends to get as much money from you as possible. You do have the excuse that while your DH is sick things have changed.

Sending you best wishes OP.

This isn't about DD1s behaviour. But I would really really not spend or commit to spend large quantities of money.
I've seen several relatives through a cancer diagnosis.
I won't go into that but as I'm sure you're aware this is a time of uncertainty. That money may be required for care or adjustments. Please put you and DH first.

Good morning everyone and thanks for your comments. Special thanks also to Sir Vix for the beautiful and uplifting music, which I have listened to a lot over the last couple of days.

I didn't post yesterday, as we were at the hospital for a long time waiting for the PET scan - we have an appointment next Tuesday for the results.

Champagne - you are right, it is just like a bomb going off and I do feel as though I am walking around in a daze, nothing seems quite real.

Gutterton - thank you for your supportive post and for the video link. Actually, the anger has largely dissipated, I am pleased to say, as I need to be calm and level headed for DH. I am sure that DD1 is very upset and concerned but I wouldn't expect her to travel so far with the DC (she is breast feeding) and I don't want to see LB particularly. It would be more stressful if we had to accommodate them. Assuming that DH's treatment hasn't started, I would prefer that we visit them, so that we have it in our control how long the visit is for. It would be perfectly natural to say that DH was tired and needed to go back to the hotel to rest if it all gets too much.

Thanks 5leaf, billy, Grohn, Lowbrow and ddraigygoch for your kind messages and advice.

billy - I can totally envisage the scene in the restaurant, definitely more than a touch of black humour!

Grohn - you are right that the 'joyful occasions' may not have been all that we would have hoped for. Even before DD1 estranged from us, DDs 2 & 3 said that they would miss DD1 at Christmas but that it was better to be without her than have LB there with her - he makes us all feel uncomfortable.

Heavenly quartet for this morning Albinoni. m.youtube.com/watch?v=A9l1wKCv9nE&list=RDA9l1wKCv9nE&start_radio=1

You are sounding grounded, strong, calm and focused Albinoni which is amazing given the battering you have had over the years. You sound clear and calm about the visit and emotionally in control and on top of it with an exit strategy in place if needed. So you are in the best place you can be given the circumstances.

You have the measure of LB and understand the bigger picture dynamics with your DD1 - so you are well ahead. These types are so predictable that you will now be able to see right through the stage managed visit and any stunt by him - so it won’t trigger you.

More importantly though you have your DH and your DDs by your side and in your heart. All will be good. X

SirVix - thank you for such a lovely piece of music to brighten my day!

Thank you Gutterton. Just had a long chat with DD2. She has done something to my phone so that alerts don't flash up when DD1 calls, so I have to specifically check for them rather than being made anxious and bombarded. She said it would give me more control. She doesn't want anything to do with DD1 or LB and their toxicity but understands why I feel the need to visit them with DH.

I said I thought DD1 actually disliked me at some level, she certainly resents me. DD2 says that's possibly true but I have done my best so stop worrying, I can't change it. She reminded me how DD1 tried to turn DD3 against me. She also quoted some drag queen, whom she and DD3 admire a lot, that how people feel about you is none of your business- which I think is actually quite profound.

I don't know why, despite all this, DD1 makes me her main point of contact. It's all very odd. I made DD2 laugh by saying sometimes I wish I'd had sex five minutes earlier or later, so had a different sperm and would have ended up with a better model!

I have just done that exact same thing to my phone so that I am not triggered.

Maybe go one step further and put in a boundary. Ask her (LB) to send a weekly email with DGD news and photos instead as currently you are v busy with hospitals etc and it’s distracting you from DH - and would allow you to concentrate.

Or why don’t they do a weekly FaceTime with the DGDs? That’s what everyone else does? I bet LB wouldn’t agree to that - as he wouldn’t be able to curate and control his emotional blackmail campaign ....,

Hi OP. I’m not religious or superstitious but for some weird reason I felt like I had to post so that this thread moved on from 666 posts!

I can’t imagine what a horrible week this is for you and your DH while you’re in limbo and waiting for the results. My MIL was diagnosed with 2 separate types of cancer last year and others are right - the not knowing is the worst. We have been lucky and despite an initially poor prognosis she has thankfully now got the all clear. Fingers crossed your DH responds well to the treatment. I hope you have a busy weekend with your friends to keep your minds off it as much as possible.

It’s probably bottom of your thoughts right now but in regards to your wills, I think you have made a sensible decision on the split between all beneficiaries. If I were you I would not ever discuss it with DD1 or LB. You can just tell them that you have made plans for your estate and are happy with them. The not knowing will kill him.

Can I add to the mix....firstly my support remotely...as the mother of daughters I can imagine how heartbreaking this is. But I just read the post with the letter they (he) sent you, announcing the existence of GD1 and explaining their concealment. I am married to someone with ASD. I teach large numbers of ASD. There are challenges but they are LESS manipulative than neurotypical individuals. It is a bigger cognitive strain for people with ASD to lie. Your SIL does not sound ASD but rather, more like a controlling unkind man to be feared. The letter is highly manipulative and attempting to 'train' you to pay out again. Better to be clear about the situation your daughter is in :(

So sorry not to have posted for a few days, but we were away with lovely, supportive friends - it was a wonderful, relaxing weekend, which stopped us dwelling on the current situation too much.

Gutterton - perhaps we will suggest FaceTime if we get to visit, although it might be a bit awkward anyway - it's not as though DGD1 knows us at all.

Bluebell - I am so pleased that your MIL has made a good recovery. You are right that the waiting is the worst part. We have the PET scan result tomorrow, following which, hopefully, things will move quickly and DH can start treatment. I agree with what you say about the wills.

Fizzy - I fear that you are right. That is exactly how I feel, that I am being trained - Pavlovian style - to respond in a particular way - to his advantage and to my detriment. The thing is, I know that DD1 wants nothing more than for us all to be one happy family and I really wish I could like him. I would be much happier to be wrong about him and for everything to be 'normal' but, sadly, I don't think it ever will.

However, the situation with DH has put it all into perspective - I feel much more detached, I can't think beyond tomorrow at the moment.

Good to hear you had a good weekend @Albinoni and wishing you all the very best with your results tomorrow. You have so much to deal with so just take things as they come for now.

You have always been one happy family and always will be - there is loads of love and support that has been invested by you and your DH which continues to be shared around by DD2 and DD3. DD1 still has it as a frozen asset.....

But he has an extreme PD - and you are not wrong about him - and neither is anyone else - your other DDs and basically the rest of the world - there is not one friend who has stood by him through his school, college, university, etc.

This tells you all you need to know.

It is much more dangerous to your family to believe he is normal - that facilitates his abuse of your DD1 and DGDs.

I am glad that you found relief immersing yourself with loving life long friends and I wish you and your DH all the very best for tomorrow.

Another voice here thinking of you and wishing you all the best for tomorrow Albinoni
I agree with Gutterton , above, that it would be more dangerous for your family to believe that he is normal.
I think your dd probably does realise he is not normal, but can’t face it.
Another piece for you, some beautiful Handel. m.youtube.com/watch?v=KxnBjAaJWCc

Good luck tomorrow

Thinking of you

Thinking of you all and hoping for the very best outcome tomorrow 💐

Thanks you every one for your support and good wishes and to SirVix for the glorious piece of music.

Unfortunately, the scan results were not good and there is another cancer in the neck which needs further investigation. It is not clear yet whether or not it is a secondary or another primary cancer. We have an emergency appointment with the oncologist this morning to discuss treatment for the oesophageal cancer, but it is likely to begin soon, I hope. Also, the cancer is more widespread than was first thought, having spread into some lymph nodes.

It is DD2's birthday today so this has disrupted the plans - we were going to meet DD3 for lunch in London but will need to postpone this. DD2 is putting on a brave face but was very upset about everything. We will just try to be as normal as possible and have a takeaway this evening and hopefully do lunch another time.

DD1 has messaged regularly asking for updates and I messaged her after the appointment to advise her of the position. I had two missed calls and another message - I responded but said I felt too upset to talk. Her latest message reads

"Ok Mum. Thanks for letting me know. Please keep me informed.
If you want to talk on the phone at any point just give me a call xxxx"

I suppose at least she is in regular touch, which suggests she does care to an extent, but I can't help thinking that she could have brought DH so much joy if she had invited him to her marriage and told him about the birth of DGD1. She wouldn't even let us visit DGD2 when she was a month old, as it was 'too soon'. I know she had an emergency C section, but all we wanted to do was visit her and meet the baby, we didn't want her to cater for us in any way. DH is still anxious to go on the visit but, realistically, I think this is unlikely, as treatment will probably have started by then.

I am trying to be optimistic, as this is essential when dealing with cancer, but a part of me wonders if DH will ever meet his DGDs. I feel so upset on his behalf that I don't actually want to speak to DD1 at all at present and I fear that, if I did, I might say something which I would later regret. Her message almost sounds as though she is doing me a favour by offering to speak to me. Her whole approach over the last few years has been that she is doing us a favour by having any contact. She sent an email a couple years ago saying that they would update us on their lives by email from time to time as that was 'the level of contact which they felt comfortable with'.

Sorry this isn't very positive and DH is a bit down about it all, as can be expected. It is all the worse because the news from the last scan gave us so much hope. Still, onwards and upwards as they say.