I thought I had severed ties with my mother..........

[Titania]

but a card has just come through the post for my dds birthday with £10 in it...........now dd is asking why she doesn't see nanny anymore.......I am feeling so bad as I don't know what to say to her........oh why did she have to do this to me.........I don't know what to think now or what I should do........

No Titania, you are not a pain. You have a very genuine problem and you need advice and a sympathetic ear. I can't say anything to help you. I think you would do better speaking to a trained counsellor but if you don't feel you could face one, then you must moan away on Mumsnet. We are all here for you and couldn't bear to think of you going on alone when you so obviously need someone to talk to.

Ohh, Titania, I had no idea what horrible experiences you have gone through. This woman, as someone else has said, is not your mother. You need, I think to shut her out of your life, and I think you need counselling to help you to do that. You say you want her to hug you and tell you she's sorry. I don't believe from the sounds of the woman, that she will ever do that. I think it would be a shame for you to be holding on to that hope when you could be moving on. Of course I understand why, I couldn't imagine life without my mother, but she has never acted as your protector, has attacked you and has never cared for you as a mother should. She is not deserving of having that role. Nor is she deserving of the privilege of being a grandmother.

You say you have felt counselling made things worse when you have been before. I think this is normal. I think you need to dredge up all these awful experiences from your past, you need to explore these issues. This will be INCREDIBLY painful and hard and you will need an awful lot of support. But if your husband and friends and of course mumsnet can get behind you then you will be able to do this. It will be like going through a dark tunnel, but one that you need to go through to get to the lovely place at the end of your journey.

I disagree with others who say you should start AD's. I don't know that they will help. The depression you have stems from the life you have led and not the other way round. They will have little effect untill the issues that are causing you the pain have been in some way resolved. They are addictive and I think that you need to be strong and go to your GP and tell them what you need. Say no to AD's. Tell you GP what I have said here. The issue that has caused you the pain needs to be addressed, not disguised by AD's. I'm so sorry you are having to go through all this, you will be in my thoughts and I hope to hear how you get on with everything.

Flossam - the Royal College of Psychiatrists doesn't think that ADs are addictive; tho have to confess i do sometimes think it is splitting hairs trying to differentiate withdrawal symptoms from dependence but that is a whole different ballgame:-

[http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/info/factsheets/pfacanti.asp]

Are antidepressants addictive?

Antidepressant drugs don't cause the addictions that you get with tranquillisers, alcohol or nicotine. You don't need to keep increasing the dose to get the same effect. You won't find yourself craving them if you stop taking them.

However, studies have shown that up to a third of people have withdrawal symptoms for a short time when they stop antidepressants. These include stomach upsets, flu like symptoms, anxiety, dizziness, vivid dreams at night or sensations in the body that feel like electric shocks (see references).

They seem to be most likely to happen with an SSRI antidepressant called Paroxetine (Seroxat), but can be prevented by slowly reducing the dose of antidepressant rather than stopping it suddenly.

There has been controversy recently that the makers of seroxat (which is the most commonly prescribed AD) have kept these debilitating 'withdrawel' symptoms to themselves, as did they hide the fact that they can be dangerous to use in children. I would argue that these also make it very difficult to come off and this has been well documented. Even if not 'addictive' (questionable) IMO are best left well alone, due to these problems and alsoe the fact that Titania has problems in her life that will not be addressed by AD's.

First of all to say that I 100% agree that there are problems in Titania's life that cannot be addressed purely by medication, but I believe that there is a role for BOTH medication and psychotherapy/counselling in this sort of situation.

sorry to carry on as poster girl for Eli Lilly(!)- but in my experience, when I was very depressed and having CBT I needed some degree of mood lifting to fully benefit from the psychotherapy, which the ADs provided. Of course Titania's experience may well be different.

Seroxat is far worse than the other SSRIs for withdrawal symptoms due to it having a very short half life. There was a Panorama programme a few years ago about Seroxat and the problems with withdrawal; I would sincerely hope that the vast majority of GPs would avoid prescribing Seroxat where another SSRI would do the job as well, and would provide far less problems withdrawing.

However I would fully agree that there are other more "natural" ways of lifting one's mood - eating/sleeping well, exercise, yoga, getting a break from household childcare responsibilities etc. The problem is of course that if you are very depressed or simply very busy! it can be difficult to see a way to doing any of these.

I have taken ADs on several occasions and never experienced difficulties coming off. Not to trivialize the experience of those who have difficulties coming off, or feel that they have been put in a worse position taking the ADs than they would otherwise have been.

/Rant over

please dont ladies.....dont fall out.........im already to blame for lots without having you falling out on my hands as well.

Titania, I have only just seen this thread and when I read your account of what happened to you I was in tears. I looked at my own little dd and the thought of treating her (or any other little girl) in such a way, or even anything like that, is just so upsetting.

I think you are a remarkably strong woman to have survived that and be able to be a kind loving mother to your own children. They really are lucky to have such a strong person as their mum.

I don't have any practical advice, but there have been wonderful suggestions from other posters.

Please try and find a way to start healing. I have no experience of anti-depressants but perhaps there is a brand you could take without nasty side-effects and that would give you just the lift you need to start seeing and benefitting from a therapist/counsellor.

I think we can control our bodies, but that we can only have a healthy body if we have a healthy mind. Your comment that you would love your mother to hug you and take all the pain away is so poignant, though sadly it sounds as if that may not ever happen and you need to accept that hard fact first so you can start to move on.

Sorry I am rambling now, so I'll stop and just say I am thinking of you and sending you huge hugs.

Please keep posting xxx

I am so cross - not with you but with your mother and your GF - Honey you are to blame for none of what you have been out through but now you have to start healing and that means if needs be taking ADs, they may be just a little thing that can help you start getting your head together and then start some counselling.

It will hurt soooooo much to think about it all and in some respects relive it whilst talking about it but for you to get through this you need to stop burying it and what it has done to you physically and emotionally and start realiseing that you are not to blame and that all of the things that happened were out of your control and DONE to you.

As for wanting your mother to hug you thats only natural - I think sometimes that I would love a big father figure to come and give me a hug but it would be empty - it would mean more for another MN to come and hug me because at least it would be heartfelt and genuine.

Please please ring one of the groups I posted on eher - there is one near you - it could be the first step to getting through this and helping you to decide what you want to do about your Monster. You can listen to people who are trained in this sort of thing and maybe even meet other people who have gone through the same sort of thing and listen to how they dealt with it.

Please don't stop mailing me - I am at home today and can't get into mine at the mo but will as soon as I can.

Sorry MTS, I'm glad you have had a positive experience with Ad's. I know personnally many who haven't and am applying the pyschology I studied to Titania case. I will somethimes reccomend that patients are prescribed it in situations where nothing else seems to help but it is only a short term solution IYSWIM.

Titania - don't worry about flossam and me "falling out" - it's just a civilised exchange of views between two posters who respect each other but happen to have different views on a subject! i have no "hard feelings" and sincerely hope that flossam doesn't. and none of this is YOUR fault - whether it be the abuse you suffered from your family, down to flossam and me having different views on the use of ADs - you can't control other people's behaviour/opinions, only the way that you react to them.

flossam - just curious - do you work in the mental health field? I was just interested by your mention of being involved in recommending whether or not ADs were prescribed.

There are big issues about SSRI-type antidepressants, especially Seroxat, but I'm not sure that's relevant to the point of this thread which is supporting Titania.

Titania, do go and see your GP and don't be put off by debates about the effectiveness of medicines; GPs can offer a whole range of support, including but not limited to medicines. Sometimes anti-depressants are life-savers. Particularly good at helping while you are going through a crisis. Any medicine has potential side effects, even aspirin, but it's a question of weighing up benefits and risks, and if you are suffering from severe clinical depression, you do need help. There are lots of different types of anti-depressant out there and your GP can work with you to find the one that's right for you.
HTH

No of course no hard feelings! I didn't think we were rowing either! I think this is my mother's influence which makes me feel this way! My grandmother was addicted to various drugs they prescribed for her depression, so my mother saw her suffering and refused AD's when she became very depressed when I was a teenager. So I feel quite stongly on them, as you do the other way!

I am a general staff nurse, at the moment I work in intensive care where quite often a patients mental state will prevent them from recoving physically IYSWIM. Sometimes the AD's can make the world of difference, but it does normally take around two weeks for them to work. I'm just very aware that GP's (like Titanias seems to) will hand out AD's like smarties without addressing other issues. Where I work the AD's help to lift the depression, to enable to patient to have some motivation and positive mental outlook to do well physically and then get them out of the situation that is making them depressed.

mums just text me again ........said 'why are you ignoring me? I still love you'........oh god..........i can't do this anymore................why won't it all just go away?.......

flossam thanks for the info. very interesting to see the professional perspective.

Titania - just ignore the text. Or if you think that's too rude, you could just text her back saying you need some time to think and will text her back when you feel ready

Just remember though MTS it is only my perspective! I'm not speaking for all of us by any means!!!

am ignoring it for now.........how does she always seem to know just how to get to me......

Sorry Titania. I would try your very hardest to ignore her. Hard I know but I suspect she is playing mind games with you. You have done well to get to where you were. She has realised that she has lost her hold over you and is trying to reclaim that. Please try and organise some counselling and make decisions about any future relationship you have with her based on the decisions you reach through this medium.

I agree with Flossam, I think she is playing games with you to try and get some control back over you and your life. Please don't let her.

titania... chnage your mobile and never let her get the new number.. some might disagree and say'but she is your mam' but i have been through similar at the hands of my father, he beat my mam, brother and grandad and did to me what your grandfather did to you...only since my dd was born have i started thinking well if my mother knew what he was doing to her, brother and grandad.. maybe she knew what he was doing to me?... she deserted me through pregnancy and calls once in a blue moon.
my childhood was hell(and dp's) so i am anxiously waiting for day mother does something that enables me to bring it up and cut ties.
your mother is not a mother, look at your children, could you subject them to that? i already know your answer..she cannot turn back time and i personally wouldnt be satisfied with an apology or a hug, you are a strong person for coming through it, find out who your health visitor is and ask to be refered to psychitric nurse(we did), she/he will not talk about past if you dont want, but help you cope with present and look toward future.
i was also the same about ad's but after suffering depression as a kid, i got terrible pnd after dd born, wouldnt admit it at first as didnt want to 'need' tabs, but admitting you need a bit of help is totally human and can help you.
i really hope you get some helpp, you must be more messed up than i thought i was!..but i can understand your pain.. please get some help and gradually learn to put her out of your head.

Message withdrawn

i didnt sleep at all last night....was just laying there crying all night, thinking about everything....

I just dont know what to do with myself today....its pouring with rain here....Im fed up, tired and lonely

sounds like a bit of mindless distraction is called for then - could you make it out to the newsagents and get a cheap mag. otherwise telly/book/radio - something to make the day pass quicker and keep you entertained. don't suppose you are into anything crafty at all - knitting/crochet etc - that can be fun

i used to do loads of knitting at one time.......i havent really got the inclination for it ATM. Its pouring with rain here.....dd is very tired too so is laying on the sofa half asleep now...ds1 is at school and ds2 is asleep....

I am so sorry to read what you have been through and what you are going through now.I really don't have much advice but will say that as an outsider reading all of this I think your "mother" is trying to gain control over you again and just using more "games" to undermine you and I don't know how but somehow you have to find a way that means she can not affect you like this.The very fact that you are getting so upset and stressed by all this means that she is still abusing you, to my mind. I'm so sorry though. Wish I could help more xx