Need to find friends who aren't white...

[BlingLoving]

This is a bit odd, and frankly, embarrassing, so please bear with me.

DS, 8, has admitted to me that he doesn't think he likes "brown" people as much as white people. When I ask him about this, he can't explain it. I point out that he used to be friends with a muslim boy at school (who has subsequently left) and that he has a number of "brown" friends who are muslim or black at one of his activities. when I remind him of this, he agrees that he likes these children and gets on well with them and then says, "but I think I don't normally like them". I don't think this attitude comes from anything specific, but more the reality that we live in surrey and his entire school has maybe 5 children who aren't white.

I am originally from South Africa so this worries me. I do have some black south african friends, although not many as I left 20 years ago and Apartheid only ended as I was leaving school. The ones I have are from when I was working in Johannesburg and while we stay in touch, I haven't visited Joburg since DS was born and the odd time they've visited london in the past it's been meet ups for dinners and drinks in London rather than trips to Surrey with the kids...

I have one black English friend who he knows, and loves, but that friend lives in the US so we don't see him often.

The problem is that in my leafy little part of surrey, it's all bloody white. The children in his activity are different ages so I don't see those turning into proper friendships, although I plan to encourage any budding relationships! So how do I show him he's being ridiculous? Bless him, I think he is aware of it in that he's always a bit embarrassed by what he's saying and does it like he's making a confession.

He loves music and actually has started to realise that some of the music he listens to is by black artists, so that's good. But I feel like I need him to see people of different races more visibly in his daily life before any of these attitudes are entrenched. But I don't know how to do this short of taking him back to south africa for a few months!

This is really hard if you live in a really white area. I've got mixed race kids and my eldest says similar things 😣
I have actively sought out non white people to befriend and have really encouraged her friendship with the only other non white girl in her class. I was actually thinking of moving to the nearest big city before she starts secondary, to tackle this problem.
It's good that you're thinking about it, that's half the battle won, and don't let anyone tell you you're making an issue where there isn't one.

I have actively sought out non white people to befriend and have really encouraged her friendship with the only other non white girl in her class.

Thanks Peanut. I'm doing this but as you say, options are limited. I think I might experiment with his activity. It's not as clear cut as organising a playdate but maybe I can speak to the leader about doing some more social type activities for all the children or something. would also give me the opportunity to meet more of the parents perhaps.

Good idea. I would honestly try anything and everything, even if it feels contrived. If you're in an extremely white area then those families will probably reciprocate well too. I know one mum says we are the only people they know in our area.

I agree Peanut it's tricky having mixed-race/non white DC in a really white area.
One of the reasons we chose DSs nursery is over another, is that at the other I didn't see a single non-white DC!

It's good that you are being pro-active Bling all I can suggest is to keep taking him to fun events/activities in your nearest big town eg Crawley/Guildford/Croydon.

Read Nurtureshock. That says that kids' brains are basically pre-programmed to draw this kind of distinction, and that is why white parents need to actively talk about race rather than ignoring it. The child's brain is hardwired to notice differences in skin colour and assign different assumptions to different groups. It's a biological drive to see "people who look like me" more favourably than people who don't. It helped cavemen with tribal bonding or something. It's not (yet!) a failing in your son, it's a natural predisposition which we need to overcome by talking to them about race. So I think you are spot on to ask this question, embarrassing as it feels. He's being honest and perceptive.

We live in a very leafy, white area outside a city. We deliberately drive our children into the city for some of their activities, purely so they get to mix with a wider circle than "people who look just like them." But Nurtureshock, IIRC, would argue that just mixing or even making friends with individuals doesn't achieve very much. It's mainly about having the conversations with the child.

Pressed post before finishing! I meant because there'll be more non-white DC there than in the countryside and so hopefully they'll seem less 'sticky outy' in his head.

Agree with what melly said!

Actually bling, being from SA you have the ideal opportunity to talk about what happens when one group of people decide they don't like another group. Obviously in a gentle, age appropriate way that doesn't demonise him for voicing these thoughts!

Thanks all. And I feel marginally less embarrassed. I couldn't help worrying he'd somehow picked up some subtle signals from me which I wasn't even aware of. I don't THINK I send out racist vibes, but I do believe strongly in unconscious bias so it's possible.

@MellyNotSmelly so true about discussing it. We do talk about it and I think it is helping a bit in that he himself is a bit embarrassed so clearly on some level he's aware. And we have definitely talked about things like how black people often have life harder than white people because unfair assumptions are made. It came up in the context of police in America once and while I don't think he really understood what I was trying to say, some of the concepts are slowly filtering down.

He's an extremely intuitive, insightful child. That's the plus side. Downside is that's he's less good at intellectual / academic concepts. So we have talked previously, briefly, about how the South Africa I grew up in didn't allow black people the same freedoms I had, but I am not sure he really understands. I'll keep working on it.

Have also realised that the two local high schools are both very big and somewhat more diverse so he'll be mixing more when he's older. which is good. Good call re taking him to events outside of our little village too - will look into options for holidays etc.

how far is the nearest big city to you OP? maybe your ds could start doing an activity there, to help him meet a bigger group of people? its good that you are trying to do something about it. does he have any specific interests (eg football or dance)? You could find a famous person from that interest and see if you can find a book about them etc to introduce diversity into things he is interested in

One of the reasons we chose DSs nursery is over another, is that at the other I didn't see a single non-white DC! there is one local school that's more diverse and it was initially my first choice for him. But DH much preferred the school he is at and I did also like it. It's been a really good school for him, so obviously was a good decision, but sometimes I drive past the other school and think how good it would have been for him to experience more diversity.

Quite honestly, as one of only a few non-English families at our school, we basically represent diversity at his current school!

ts good that you are trying to do something about it. does he have any specific interests (eg football or dance)? You could find a famous person from that interest and see if you can find a book about them etc to introduce diversity into things he is interested in

We're doing this with music. And he follows a footballer kid on youtube who is black and DS loves his videos so that's also good I guess. Will keep looking for opportunities. His activity leader is black too which is brilliant and, thinking about it, might be what has made him start thinking about his basic assumptions.

Sorry, me again. I think I'll also take a look at the school history curriculum and see if there are opportunities to either suggest to school, or pick up at home, on race issues within these. Come to think of it, I might discuss with school anyway - as a school with an almost entirely white population they must surely be aware that this is something they need to proactively address? Not just for my DS but all the other children too?

I couldn't help worrying he'd somehow picked up some subtle signals from me which I wasn't even aware of. I don't THINK I send out racist vibes, but I do believe strongly in unconscious bias so it's possible

What's ^^ that about?

I'm not white and I would not want to befriend you just so you could 'educate' your child I'm afraid.

There are many white people who successfully manage to raise non racist children

if he likes football get him to have a look at this channel on youtube also. its run by an asian child. you could also let him watch this video which is a little basic but gets the point across

@batshittery - I'm not suggesting I befriend people just for this! I'm saying I'd like the opportunity for him to meet friends who aren't white. Which in his current situation, he doesn't. I'm not friends with every black person I've met for pete's sake - just the ones that I've connected with and with whom I've got stuff in common (unsurprisingly, all through work). I'm just bemoaning the lack of diversity in his daily life.

"I have actively sought out non white people to befriend"

Oh my, this is depressing. Another thing to add to the list of reasons to be suspicious of people. Sigh. I suppose another reason people are cross when I don't have anything "different" about me.

This whole thread is like....can you just not?

I have a mixed race child who dislikes what she sees in the mirror because she doesn't see anything like it in her daily life. So yes, I actively befriend people who look like her. I don't give a flying fuck what anyone on here says. It's the right thing to do for my dd and we've made some great friends.

I'm not white and I would not want to befriend you just so you could 'educate' your child I'm afraid

^This.

My kids (non white). Have been to an all black school then moved area and the next school was all white. White school = The lack of welcome or "doing it to be polite" and therefore fake was awful. I see these village suburban white schools as a majority of people who want to raise children initially around those they want them to mix with (of course not all but a lot imo). So perhaps your son is picking these vibes up from the way the school kids behave, especially since your post mentions how much he likes certain music and footballers? It doesn't add up that he could like them but thinks he shouldn't, other than it being because he's picking the way he's "suppose to feel" from other kids.

My way of correcting this would be to educate him on how bad and good people of all races and ethnic groups can be! I'm probably more frank and out there in the things I show and tell my kids regarding racism because I want them to recognise it fast. But I'm sure if you're a little more reserved you'll find ways of telling him the stories of how certain races have been victimised throughout history. Then he will see it as people can be bad regardless for their skin colour 😊

I’m cringing as well Autumn

Op, how about you say to him very firmly ‘ds, we do not say we dislike people because of their skin colour because that is racist. I am extremely disappointed that you have said this and I expect better in future.’

Then leave him to make his own friends?

By the way, the sum total of children of a different ethnic origin at my school was ONE.

Oh dear. This is just so patronising. Positive discrimination is still discrimination. I thought we were moving towards people just being people. OP you are operating from an entitled viewpoint and quite frankly it’s disturbing and selfish. Both my kids are white and live in a white area and are enlightened and woke. You are being naive and maybe broadening your understanding may help your parenting.

I think it will come with age and maturity. Let's face it most of us said stupid or offensive things when we were kids. It's those who carry on into adulthood who are the problem - and those people probably had a troubled upbringing in general. Don't sweat it, you can't force these things, just try to lead by example and keep talking sense. It will sink in eventually.

I thought we were trying to teach our kids to see beyond the colour of the skin and judge on what's inside rather than what's on the outside? Surely that's the message to teach rather than positively reinforce the difference by seeking out colour.

I am so proud to say, when my son was describing his new friend, he told me about his hair, what colour eyes he had and how tall he was. When I met him, he was actually mixed race and from south Africa but my child didnt even think that noteworthy. That's the best result I think

I just wanted to say kudos to you for recognising this and wanting to do something about it.

We are white and used to live in a very culturally diverse area, DC's went to a pre school run by largely Muslims with a diverse mix of children, and I think it had a really positive impact on our eldest in particular who went there longer (in terms of accepting all people without seeing skin colour). So I think there is a lot to be said for your idea to mix with diverse groups and that is such a good idea. I remember a day she was trying to describe someone to me and I thought she meant a white girl from tv, she meant a black girl and it was the last part of the description she gave me and only then in exasperation as I hadn't grasped who she was from the rest. I realised she just doesn't see it. I genuinely believe that comes from having such diverse people in her life.

Sadly we now live in a highly white area (moved for work) but we have mixed race family members so I think that helps maintain an open view as we never discuss it. School has recently done Black History Week which youngest came home talking about non stop, so I think your idea of approaching school is also great, they just lap up information there.