Need to find friends who aren't white...

[BlingLoving]

This is a bit odd, and frankly, embarrassing, so please bear with me.

DS, 8, has admitted to me that he doesn't think he likes "brown" people as much as white people. When I ask him about this, he can't explain it. I point out that he used to be friends with a muslim boy at school (who has subsequently left) and that he has a number of "brown" friends who are muslim or black at one of his activities. when I remind him of this, he agrees that he likes these children and gets on well with them and then says, "but I think I don't normally like them". I don't think this attitude comes from anything specific, but more the reality that we live in surrey and his entire school has maybe 5 children who aren't white.

I am originally from South Africa so this worries me. I do have some black south african friends, although not many as I left 20 years ago and Apartheid only ended as I was leaving school. The ones I have are from when I was working in Johannesburg and while we stay in touch, I haven't visited Joburg since DS was born and the odd time they've visited london in the past it's been meet ups for dinners and drinks in London rather than trips to Surrey with the kids...

I have one black English friend who he knows, and loves, but that friend lives in the US so we don't see him often.

The problem is that in my leafy little part of surrey, it's all bloody white. The children in his activity are different ages so I don't see those turning into proper friendships, although I plan to encourage any budding relationships! So how do I show him he's being ridiculous? Bless him, I think he is aware of it in that he's always a bit embarrassed by what he's saying and does it like he's making a confession.

He loves music and actually has started to realise that some of the music he listens to is by black artists, so that's good. But I feel like I need him to see people of different races more visibly in his daily life before any of these attitudes are entrenched. But I don't know how to do this short of taking him back to south africa for a few months!

ds, we do not say we dislike people because of their skin colour because that is racist lol this is exactly how unconscious racism gets entrenched. Well done, this is some of the worst advice I've ever read on this subject!

OP I get you. We live in a very white urban area, my DC goes to a school in the immigrant area of the city where at least half his teachers arent white and he is one of 2-3 white kids in the class. If I were you and if you are really serious about multiculturalism I'd switch schools.

Beyond that, educate him on bias and how his brain picks out differences. It has to be a continuous conversation.

Not sure trying to pre curate friendships is going to help. That's dehumanizing for the children involved.

Also be careful talking to white Brits about this subject. Even the wokest among them tend to be painfully clueless, work themselves into a lather about "reverse discrimination", etc. Its just the nature of the beast really.

I just knew you'd say Surrey. Grew up there, the attitude and atmosphere towards non whites is entirely different to some other counties. We moved away purely because of how Surrey is.

My DS said something (very) similar when he was about that age despite his cousin's being black. I was really shocked but ultimately had discussions around peoples differences and then moved on.

He is now 17 and none of his new college friends are white British.

We live in London.

Also agree with what rvby says!

This thing about friendships though...obviously it's not forced...if someone was clearly not interested in hanging out with me and my dc then it doesn't go any further. But I haven't had that experience at all. I suppose it helps that my (non white) dc tend to seek out other non white kids and I then befriend the parents.

Not sure how you can agree with rvby. You are saying the opposite.

I actually LOL when white people say they don't see colour.... Only people of colour know how frankly ridiculous this statement is. Its a direct dichotomy to their daily lived experiences and undermines it. So op, good luck and well done for trying to rectify it.

Good on you OP. I'm British Indian and I'm impressed by your attitude. There is always the onus on minorities to change who we are, how we speak, what we read so that we can fit in. There is never any expectation of those with privilege to make an effort.

I know you're not trying to make friends with those of a different ethnicity - you know the positive impact of seeing and being friends with those from different backgrounds.

The fact of the matter is, that regularly seeing people who are different to you has a huge impact on empathy and being aware of your own privilege.

I married a white man who has always had friends from different ethnicities- particularly south asians (and he grew up in Surrey). He understands unconscious bias better than anyone - simply from seeing how his friends and I are treated. You only get that when spend time with people.

If there were more people like you, we'd have a lot more equality.

For everyone who criticises this approach, how do you check your privilege?

"I actually LOL when white people say they don't see colour.... Only people of colour know how frankly ridiculous this statement is"

I'm a person of colour and I don't find it ridiculous at all.

"For everyone who criticises this approach, how do you check your privilege"

I'm not sure what this means.

Yesterday I posted in the feminist section about having read The Madness of Crowds, and how it went some way to explaining why I get endless questions about my ethnicity now, whereas twenty years ago, I didn't.

I actually LOL when white people say they don't see colour.... Only people of colour know how frankly ridiculous this statement is yup. It's part of white privilege to "not see colour". My brown kids certainly see it.

To whoever asked aren't we aiming for people just being people. Well, of course that's the end goal. But we are a loooooong way off that. And if your white kids only encounter white people, and our films and books still only show majority white people (or stereotyped black/brown people) and you are telling your kids that "we only see people" and you are telling yourself that your kids are woke......then how do you think we are going to reach that point?

It's a good thing I'm not up for making new friends because if this normal, I'd be worried people were trying to befriend me for my skin colour. This on top of the joy of never knowing if I got a contract because of being a woman of colour.

Only on MN could befriending someone be termed 'dehumanising'.

If you like someone and they like you, be friends. Who cares if the parent also wants to broaden the child's horizons? It's win - win.

Right there's some really uncomfortable shit going on here. Please don't seek out POC like that.

My children were born in a Scandinavian country in a very Caucasian area. What I did to try to avoid a scenario where my children grew up thinking white is the default setting, was to have a continuous discussion happening about race and power and fairness. I also made sure their toys/books/videos were racially diverse. If my child asked for the "skin tone crayon" I would, every single time, tell them there's no such thing and have a talk about how many skin tones there are. Every time they say something that doesn't sit right with me or seems misunderstood, we talk it through. And they do say things that are wrong from time to time, because they do pick up on all sorts from their surroundings. It's a continuous conversation. I also believe in honesty - honest talks about racism, history, and power. We also have children's books that address these things. We have to always try to do, and be, better. A part of this is also speaking up if someone says something even remotely racist - including "jokes". I have asked family members to leave the house for this.

I hope this can give you some ideas to help your son :)

Ruffle, it IS dehumanising if someone heads for me thinking "ooh, a diversity win, I'll talk to her". Can you really not see how upsetting that is? We've talked a lot on these boards - I NC a lot - and I'm disappointed in you. Sorry to sound like a parent!

Bling We are in the very lucky position with primary schools that our favourite/most academic local primary is also more diverse than the other 2 nearest.

It's a Catholic school so theres a good chunk of Asian families and European families (DS is Filipino/Italian).

i think you have to be careful. Its a good thing to want your dc to mix with a more varied group of people, but you shouldn't make friends purely because of their race.

Autumn is that really what you think I and the others suggesting cultivating diverse friendships meant? A diversity win? I think you're being disingenuous.

Only on MN could befriending someone be termed 'dehumanising'. Don't be disingenuous.

It's not the befriending that's dehumanizing. It's the pre-curation of the "right type of friends" for one's children that's dehumanizing. You're clever enough to know the difference between those two things...

Peanut it's just short code. Yes. If you are looking for people like me to encourage diversity in your life, I.e. judging by skin colour, what else is it?

Why can't you just crack on with life and be friends with the people you want to be friends with? Why must you seek out a perceived difference?

I'm not looking for people like you, Autumn. I'm looking for people like my child so my child doesn't feel alone

Otherwise I think we'd have picked the same as you/your DH "good all round school" over diversity on its own.

I will also say that I don't think "cultivating diverse friendships" is actually the best way to go even if you could do it without curating your child's friends.

IMO you need to put your kids (and yourself) into situations where non-white people are authority figures and leaders, where they are the centre of the conversation and your child will be peripheral / a follower etc. Where you can't pop up with "useful suggestions" about how to make the experience more palatable or inclusive, but instead follow the lead of a poc.

The power dynamics of friendship alone are unlikely to teach DC how to recognise and give up privilege etc. That's why I think you might want to rethink your school choice if it's a v white staff

Peanut "I'm looking for people like my child so my child doesn't feel alone"

But what basis are using when you say "people like your child"?

Her colour. Which she says she hates.