Need to find friends who aren't white...

[BlingLoving]

This is a bit odd, and frankly, embarrassing, so please bear with me.

DS, 8, has admitted to me that he doesn't think he likes "brown" people as much as white people. When I ask him about this, he can't explain it. I point out that he used to be friends with a muslim boy at school (who has subsequently left) and that he has a number of "brown" friends who are muslim or black at one of his activities. when I remind him of this, he agrees that he likes these children and gets on well with them and then says, "but I think I don't normally like them". I don't think this attitude comes from anything specific, but more the reality that we live in surrey and his entire school has maybe 5 children who aren't white.

I am originally from South Africa so this worries me. I do have some black south african friends, although not many as I left 20 years ago and Apartheid only ended as I was leaving school. The ones I have are from when I was working in Johannesburg and while we stay in touch, I haven't visited Joburg since DS was born and the odd time they've visited london in the past it's been meet ups for dinners and drinks in London rather than trips to Surrey with the kids...

I have one black English friend who he knows, and loves, but that friend lives in the US so we don't see him often.

The problem is that in my leafy little part of surrey, it's all bloody white. The children in his activity are different ages so I don't see those turning into proper friendships, although I plan to encourage any budding relationships! So how do I show him he's being ridiculous? Bless him, I think he is aware of it in that he's always a bit embarrassed by what he's saying and does it like he's making a confession.

He loves music and actually has started to realise that some of the music he listens to is by black artists, so that's good. But I feel like I need him to see people of different races more visibly in his daily life before any of these attitudes are entrenched. But I don't know how to do this short of taking him back to south africa for a few months!

It’s really good your aware of it and actively want to do something. Have no experience with it but just wanted to voice some support :)

Honestly autumn, if you think you have the solution, I'm all ears. I've tried everything on this thread, even the bad suggestions, and more. Hence why my next step is moving to a diverse area in a big city.

Peanut so you ARE looking for people of that colour.

One of the primary ways humans organise their experience is to categorise - putting first things, then later people into categories is a repeating developmental phase (the categories change and reorder as the child's understanding of the world develops). It's not initially racism to notice and comment on skin colour, and "not liking" is initially no more meaningful than "not liking" children of he opposite sex.

Having normal age appropriate conversations about placing value judgents on the wrong things should prevent developmentally normal young child tendency to try to apply categories to people from becoming racism.

X post Peanut, my solution is just be

my older sister had a stage of hating her colour too. I was too little to really be aware of her issues at that point, but I think my parents NOT making a big deal was probably helpful.

If your own children are mixed race and have no non white people in their lives it's a slightly different problem because it's about self image and identity - children and teens do very much need to see people who "look like" themselves both in media and real life.

A church would provide this setting for you easy... Every Sunday...

But autumn, what colour are your parents?
My daughter has none of her black family in her life. Everyone that surrounds her is white. (Actually I'm not white British but to her I'm white because I'm not as brown as her). I can't just let her be when she comes home and cries in the mirror. That would be me neglecting her needs.

Sorry op, derailing your thread!

This is something I feel very aware of, I'm white but mixed Asian/British, I was one of five kids in my high school of 1000 who wasn't fully white British, my sister was one of the others and we had two children who were black, the first time I saw an adult in my town who wasn't white and not my father was when I was sixteen! I definitely felt it (different surname which stood out) and would have liked to have diversity growing up! We've come back to the area with our kids and it's exactly the same though now with a polish population too and I do worry about it with my kids. We're planning to move and part of it for me is the massive lack of multiculturalism (and the casual racism that is in its place).

I agree with PP- I think the conversations are more important here. Aside from anything else, your DS already interacts with BAME people and really likes some of them, from what you've said, and seems to think that generally he doesn't like BAME people except X ,Y and Z... I imagine all making new friends would do is add names to his list of exceptions.

I would perhaps ask why he's drawn the conclusion that he doesn't like people who aren't white- has he had a bad experience with one person and generalised from that? I'd then look at stereotyping and prejudice, followed by examples of what happens when people think one race is better than another. October is black history month- there are currently lots of videos etc on CBBC online that could be helpful.

We live in a very diverse area, and we’ve still been through this stage. More of ds’s friends are non-white than white. It came to a point where we really had to sit all the boys down as mums and be pretty blunt and clear. We talked about history, real experiences etc.

It’s still not perfect, they live in a world where there are many forms of racism and conflict. We can only be aware and try and grow in understanding and listen. I think part of it is accepting that, that you don’t have the answer and you aren’t perfect. That there is a lot to learn if you listen, and sometimes even when you have good intentions you need to realise that your actions needed apology. It needs to be spoken of openly an often. It’s not about beating yourself up, or really it being about you- but just listening a bit more. Having some painful chats with some self-realisation, and that’s me as an adult. I’ve grown up with a diverse friendship group all my life, and I still fuck up on race! He’s a kid, he will too. Just talk about others, how they response/ feel. Read books with experiences of other cultures, just open his world a bit and engage in conversations and introduce debate.

And never enter friendships for anything other than friendships, it’s not the right way about it. It just adds to the other-ness

Peanut ah, you've just described my best mate! Same situation. Still going to say, just crack on with life.

I don't know if you feel it's really racist where you live though, that's another story. But that's a different statement than OP "I must make friends who aren't white".

Move to Bradford

"And never enter friendships for anything other than friendships, it’s not the right way about it. It just adds to the other-ness"

This. So much this.

The only children i heard make these comments came from families who were racists but of course they would swear blind they weren't. Every time.

It's incredibly insulting to say you selectively befriend non whites to add colour in your social circle or venture from your nice leafy suburbs to the jungle to experience 'diversity'. Just BS. if you cared you would not have lived there to begin with but oh no we dont want to live near them.

"Not so quick to understand the massive mental strain on poc living in a majority white society. They were culturally isolated"

Why? I'm British though. So do you mean being black British automatically means feeling isolated from white British?

Sorry if I have misunderstood your comment.

My friend's son recently entered the world of work, and remember all the joyous form filling that entails? He was really upset that every damn form asked about his racial origin. Practically in tears and he's not someone who cries much. It's like having someone scream OTHER OTHER OTHER at you. It's so awful.

"if you cared you would not have lived there to begin with but oh no we dont want to live near them."

Oh give over, there's a million reasons behind where people choose to live somewhere.

Go ahead isittho, educate me on how to effectively parent my daughter through this stage. Like I said to autumn, I'm all ears.
I do have other children and they do not feel the same way as my daughter.

Like I said, just be!

I'm just bemoaning the lack of diversity in his daily life.

Given your origins I’m at how you didn’t think about this earlier.

If you search twitter for #ownvoices books recommendations in whatever age (YA / middle grade etc) you will find a good way to help your son appreciate diversity. There are 'issues books' of course, but often a story written by someone from whichever community the book is set in (hence #ownvoices) is an excellent way to see the world from someone else's perspective.

They has no personal connection with their heritage.

They didn't understand why they were different, in personal terms. Like, where their black family from Jamaica or Zambia?

They didn't know.

It doesn't help.

'massive mental strain on poc living in a majority white society'

Yes, not all poc feel like this. But it the constant othering does have an impact on mental health.

So do you mean being black British automatically means feeling isolated from white British?

Can be if the only context you have about being black/brown is negative stereotypes.

@Peanutbuttermouth

With respect, you might actually want to talk to black mothers on how you can support your mixed race child to accept her cultural heritage as a positive.

Do you know much about her father's side? Maybe you can try and reach out to his family so she can get to know them better.

You do need to stop being defensive. I understand that she's your daughter and she's half of you, and you love her but you're white and she's not.

She's going to have different battles then you. Not worse just different.

Also, you don't expect all your kids to be the same just because they're all mixed race ?