Need to find friends who aren't white...

[BlingLoving]

This is a bit odd, and frankly, embarrassing, so please bear with me.

DS, 8, has admitted to me that he doesn't think he likes "brown" people as much as white people. When I ask him about this, he can't explain it. I point out that he used to be friends with a muslim boy at school (who has subsequently left) and that he has a number of "brown" friends who are muslim or black at one of his activities. when I remind him of this, he agrees that he likes these children and gets on well with them and then says, "but I think I don't normally like them". I don't think this attitude comes from anything specific, but more the reality that we live in surrey and his entire school has maybe 5 children who aren't white.

I am originally from South Africa so this worries me. I do have some black south african friends, although not many as I left 20 years ago and Apartheid only ended as I was leaving school. The ones I have are from when I was working in Johannesburg and while we stay in touch, I haven't visited Joburg since DS was born and the odd time they've visited london in the past it's been meet ups for dinners and drinks in London rather than trips to Surrey with the kids...

I have one black English friend who he knows, and loves, but that friend lives in the US so we don't see him often.

The problem is that in my leafy little part of surrey, it's all bloody white. The children in his activity are different ages so I don't see those turning into proper friendships, although I plan to encourage any budding relationships! So how do I show him he's being ridiculous? Bless him, I think he is aware of it in that he's always a bit embarrassed by what he's saying and does it like he's making a confession.

He loves music and actually has started to realise that some of the music he listens to is by black artists, so that's good. But I feel like I need him to see people of different races more visibly in his daily life before any of these attitudes are entrenched. But I don't know how to do this short of taking him back to south africa for a few months!

brown" people as much as white people = racist thoughts?

With respect, you might actually want to talk to black mothers on how you can support your mixed race child to accept her cultural heritage as a positive

With respect....why do you think I'm befriending black mums (which is being criticised on this thread)? And by the way, those black mums don't have the solution either. This is because we live in a white area. They feel as isolated as my daughter does. And this is why we will move.

And do you think I haven't tried with her dad's family? We have been shut out.

And do you think I haven't tried with her dad's family? We have been shut out.

I'm truly sorry about that. That's a real shame and probably the real reason for her hating herself. The rejection?

Do you know much about her dad's family? I don't want to pry but you could start discussing it with her?

More practically, does she have toys that look like her? Books , like the other poster said, with a diverse characters.

www.waterstones.com/book/little-leaders-bold-women-in-black-history/vashti-harrison/vashti-harrison/9780241346846

This kind of thing might really help because it sets a cultural context. Where these women were from, what their lives were like...

peanut

i know of a support group for parents in your situation.

it was set up in oxford.

I share your pain OP! My child only mixes with non-white children and has a really low opinion of white people, obviously as a direct consequence. So I am trying to find friends for him who are white! Any advice welcome 👍

OP I'm non white and I think it's refreshing that you have had the guts to post this here.

I am confident that some white people would have turned a blind eye to this if their child came out with this type of statement and just have felt it's no big deal as it doesn't affect/concern them.

The fact you are considering solutions is good to see and I think those slating you are being harsh.

I don't think you're child needs to make friends with 'anything non white people necessarily because there's good and bad in every race simply being non white doesn't mean they will be making friends with good people, just like if they made friends with 'any' white person.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you need to find ways of showing your child and teaching about positive examples of people of colour. There lots of children's programmes on Netflix geared towards black history.

Perhaps take them to the slave museum in Liverpool and learn about black history.

I think what's important is that your child sees people of other races being successful and doing successful things. Perhaps buy them toys that aren't all white, read books where the characters are also black.

This way, you're child can start to see that default white isn't the only thing and then people of colour might become more the norm for him/her.

@AutumnRose1 I’ve never even thought about form filing in that sense... but I can understand that. It’s an example of how things misfire, a form initiated to help address bias reaches the point where it adds to/ introduces otherness. It does demonstrate the complexity of relationships and race.

what I was questioning before was covertly befriending people. Imagine if they were to find out you sought their friendship just as a tool for your child, and not because you felt any connection with them. It’d be awful. It’s very different to transparently seeking connections with people for a reason, eg just openly getting in a conversation and saying your child is feeling a bit isolated and asking for advice.

levighi I thought those forms were misfiring about twenty years ago. I suspect it's much worse now, but as an 18 year old getting his first job, it was pretty shocking, like a really sudden onslaught.

My late father started answering everything with "prefer not to say". He had a stack of illnesses so did a lot of form filling too. He was nearly 80 and he too felt "othered" in recent years when he hadn't before, mostly by people who thought they were being polite.

I kind of wish he was still around to read Madness of Crowds and he could feel a bit less "wtf happened in our world".

I'm not sure why Muslim and brown are linked. Muslims are black, white, brown, olive and whatever other colours are out there in the world. :)

I can see how it is difficult for him. I went to a very mixed school in London but in my juniors I had zero black people in my class. I have no idea why but there was an imbalance in my class although I do feel I grew up inclusive of all as I met black people across the road from us and played with them. However when I went to secondary school I felt my lack of knowledge. There may be some weekend clubs where he can meet other races but just remember brown doesn't equal Muslim :)

This has all been really interesting, thank you. I think the befriending the came out wrong in that I want him to have the opportunity to meet diverse people from whom he can choose friends. Showing POC in leadership positions is actually a great idea and is already happening with his activity - and as I think I said before, I think is already having an effect. We absolutely do talk through things as the come up and will do this more and more as he gets older - eg we stopped at the Nelson Mandela statue on the south bank last time we were in London and had a chat about his importance to South Africa.

As for where we live, we didn't' have kids when we moved here. We just did what South Africans in London do - moved further south on the train line from Wimbledon to find somewhere we can afford. And to be honest, we do love the area but once we got into schools etc the lack of diversity is more obvious - pre kids both dh and I were working in town (me) and all over the place (him) and were experiencing the more usual diversity of Greater London.

But I am coming to realise that actually we aren't doing too badly. We do hvae these conversations. He is experiencing activities with children who aren't exactly like him. He has, and will probably find more as he gets older, some friends or at least friendly acquaintenances who aren't white. We talk about race regularly along with other issues like different types of relationships and families or religion so perhaps I should take his comments as ongoing opportunities to keep the dialogue open wit him.

Oh, and one pp wondered about whether he's picking up some of these attitudes at school and actually thinking about it, i think there might be something in that. And me neighbourhood friend who has made a few odd comments previously, although not about race.

@babba2014 totally. The children at his activity are largely Muslim (specifically the ones I was talking about) but in other groups there are black children and some Asian children. His school has a couple of Muslim kids and a few Asian children but no black children. He lumps them all into his "brown"category. We have started discussing specifics, but not in detail as yet.

I don’t see how there an be anything wrong with the sentiment that OP is trying to express here. Her son is 8 - and as far as I know there isn’t a textbook on how to ensure our children don’t say what he said - honestly and candidly - to his mum. He wouldn’t know that he said something awful - why on earth would telling him off and saying you are disappointed in him help? He won’t know why.

My son (age 5) is at a very white prep school but it’s located very much in central London; his school is very near a number of senior schools/academies that are predominantly attended by black children. We chat openly about this as we scoot to school each morning (because he asks because he is 5 and very nosey and prefers their uniforms) and i would really like to think that over the years as we make this daily journey it will assist in ensuring he attaches no value to skin colour. I will definitely want him to be in sports clubs and other activities with non-white children. I don’t care who he decides to make friends with, but surely it is easier to make all this a non-issue for their generation as they get older to avoid the Surrey ‘problem’ which OP describes.

OP if my son ever said what yours did, I would probably think exactly the same as you did. If he isn’t at school with black children, or playing sport with black children, or already friends with black children (etc etc) then I feel you have asked a perfectly reasonable question. I suspect you didn’t literally mean ‘get him some black friends’, more that you want him to live his early life surrounded by skin colours that are more representative of the way he will experience his adult life.

I’m now really scared I have said something I didn’t mean to here and I am going to be flamed and then I won’t sleep all night!!

OP. Let me stand on my podium and applaud you for recognising this and wanting to do something about it. I'm Asian with mixed race kids and live in a 98% white area and my mixed race kids are one of one handful of ethnic kids in their whole school. I'm keenly aware that my kids see themselves as more white than Asian. That is why I make massive effort to ensure my kids are exposed and play with as many Asian families, friends and other ethnic minorities friends so that they understand the cultures they are mixing with as well learning to be comfortable in their own skin. I just want me kids to have as many opportunities as possible to get to know and befriend families and children of all races. I think action and empathy and understanding has to be experienced to an extent, and then built and consolidated on. There's nothing quite like first hand experience. If I go to a school playground, I notice other non ethnic mum's make a beeline to speak to me and I think it is because there is this common split second understanding to what it's like being of colour and a minority. Personally I am fine and don't take issue with all of this. What I do take issue is if my kids see themselves as mostly white and I don't try and do something about it. Anything is better than doing nothing. I don't have all the answers and perhaps a lot of what I'm writing is politically incorrect but I think it's rare and brave to write what you've written so I applaud!

@CookieDoughKid I'm with you and I agree!

Also agree cookiedoughkid
Anything really is better than nothing.

@Hey1256 and tonight!

@CookieDoughKid no🍷 for me
Sadly, I'm 9 weeks :(!!!!

Have one for me 🤣

Cookie "I'm keenly aware that my kids see themselves as more white than Asian."

Please could you explain what you mean by that?

The problem is that in my leafy little part of surrey, it's all bloody white.

It was a thought-provoking post until you put this. There is nothing wrong with being 'bloody white'. If you had said 'bloody black' all hell would have broken loose.

Have some respect. Or move out of Surrey.

Find this threw a bit odd. I have 2 kids under 10. Neither have ever mentioned the colour of their friends skin. If asked about a new friend and what they look like they will talk about hair colour, short, fat etc but genuinely have never noticed a difference in skin colour.

Find this threw a bit odd. I have 2 kids under 10. Neither have ever mentioned the colour of their friends skin. If asked about a new friend and what they look like they will talk about hair colour, short, fat etc but genuinely have never noticed a difference in skin colour.

I would find it odd for someone to not notice someone's skin colour. It's blatantly obvious to the eye people are Different colours.

Different skin tones can be made a positive - it doesn't have to be negative. So why is it an issue to notice someone is a
Different colour to you? It's only an issue if you make it one.

I think.u should talk to your child about South African history - there.must be smtg or someone with negative attitudes and actually your own experiences of living under Apartheid might open up.some good convs.

When my DD had an 11+ mock exam, she felt really out of place with a room full of Indian and Chinese kids. She felt like she didn't belong. She felt white. Her exact spoken words even though at home I never ever say white as my husband prefers to be referred to as Caucasian. She felt alien. Even though she looks mixed race, on the outside she looks mixed but higher oriental features than her brother. Some things are not easily explainable and more of a feeling. Which made think, hang on... something isn't quite right here. ...I need to try and address this. ...so that next time she is more comfortable in such an environment.

Sorry, I know I asked a question but the last post has made me feel so low, Imma leave the thread now.