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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Boyfriend's wobbles trying for a baby

141 replies

sugarlips2015 · 22/10/2019 17:36

Hi

I love my boyfriend of 18 months very much, we're both 39, and been trying for a baby but he keeps having wobbles and I'm finding it unsettling (I'm childless, so feels like last chance saloon!).

We had a deleriously lovely first five months when I was thinking my god, he's the one, and he loves me too, it's all so simple! He was super keen on me, super affectionate, and I've never found someone whose company I love so much, he makes me laugh almost round the clock.

Then I found out he'd cheated on me with two women (casual sex, met one once, the other twice) within the first three months of our relationship. He told me five months in about the first because he'd given me an STI (slept with both with no condom - disgusted he could risk my health like that) and I recently found out about the second from snooping.

We were long distance at the time (I'd moved away for work a month after meeting) which was not easy with trust issues. I got anxious and insecure, and picked many fights with him and pushed him away. But we held on and moved in together after eight months.

I know he couldn't be more sorry (seen him cry and have panic attacks when I've been punishing towards him). He's stuck with me despite the ups and downs, I feel he really loves me. I believe there's been no straying since, he's been open and transparent and done everything to reassure me (well there were some lies/half truths/ommissions along the way, but he came clean, has his phone, social media open etc). I do think he's a good egg (he's not a good liar) who made a mistake. (I've questioned his self control though, he got his 'fuck buddy' pregnant he'd known for three weeks, they have a teenager, and he's gone through life not using condoms having casual sex as they make him lose his erection?!)

We've had many heart to hearts about why he did it (been hurt and cheated on by past fiance, had quite a pessimistic view that everyone on dating sites is shagging around early days, he feels very anxious when falling in love and believed I was doing the same). I believe he really wants a happy, healthy relationship and see how hard he's tried to please me (he runs around after me a lot, he's kind).

I've had a hard look at myself - I was near hysterical at times irrationally. I'm 39 and I've lost all my family, dad wasn't around, my mum died young of cancer - possibly have an anxious attachment style (though I behave secure when not triggered). I've not found the right man to have children with, had fallen into a bit of a depression a couple of years before thinking I'd left it too late. Knew I didn't want to settle, or have children alone. Picked myself up but had almost assigned myself that it was too late then I met my boyfriend and it reignited hope. I just wanted to meet someone I really adored who was ready to settle down and make it amazing.

But had to face facts, I can walk away if it's too imperfect/anxiety inducing (life isn't always a fairytale?), but I really love him and I thought I'm not going to let early day mistakes ruin what we've got. And love is forgiving someone, and giving yourself peace. So I had some therapy and things have been a lot calmer.

The first time I sat him down and told him I'd like a child with him and I'd never felt like I loved being with someone enough to make that commitment, I expected it to be a romantic moment (having dinner by candlelight!). He said yes me too then began to list all he negatives, how much hard work they are etc. I've been upset by his negative reaction a bunch of times I brought it up, but I also figured I'd picked the wrong time as we were so up and down. He reassured me that if we were stable he'll be fine. Said he doesn't feel a burning desire for a child as he has one, but if I want one, he's up for it.

So with things calmer, we began trying for a baby in July. But three out of the last four months when it's ovulation time he's had wobbles and we've not had sex. He brought yup the instability of our relationship again. I felt frustrated as we were calm, but I get that, we have been, and I know it's still early days (I wish I was 30 and could take our time). I've tried to be patient over the last few months, to show him a side to me he'd not seen too much of, and I sat and listened to his fears calmly. He said he feels more confident we're a strong team now and could handle the stress of a baby.

Thought we'd reached a turning point, but he had a wobble again this month. Again I stayed calm, and asked him what he's afraid of.... he poured a lot out... he says he shouted at our whiny dog the other day and what if he's a bad tempered parent? (Like his dad, he was near abusive to him as a child and they don't speak). Listed all the negatives of having kids... financial constraints, says he actually just likes a quiet life, stress, sleepless nights. What if the baby is a total brat like his younger sister? She ruined every family holiday. That the overall responsibility seems overwhelming, he's never done full time dad and you can't escape. Says me telling him when I'm ovulating is pressure. Then told me not to worry though he's on board!

I said ok, but this past week I've realised I've been struggling for months with motivation, I've started smoking on and off, not been the gym, putting on weight, not being as productive at work. Sat him down (calmly) and told him I feel I'm slipping into depression (it's bringing on grief again I may end up childless). I'm trying to hold his hand and talk him through his fears, but I can't help feeling anxious and unsure he's really on board with a child. He reacted badly and told me I've being OTT, and that's a problem for him, how can we have a child when things aren't stable. It's too pressure. I said I can't help feeling a panic at 39 0 I have endometriosis, and fibroids, two things that can affect fertility and we loved each other, we just need to crack on now! I suggested he has therapy to figure out if he wants another child or not; his wobbles appear not just about us but wider issues. I suggested holding off trying for a few months, he said no, he does want a family, I just need to be patient with him.

I don't want to have a child with someone I've forced into. And I'm worried about whether he will turn out like a family man if we did have a baby, or if his heart would only half be in it. He isn't close with his son, but he's a teen so it's hard to know what to read into that, boyfriend does try, and the ex is a bit difficult. I figured I'd get over the early day cheating if he gave me the security I craved and was keen to start a family. It's not just about the end goal of a baby, I want to feel that bond of wanting to take that leap together and I feel he just keeps setting us back. I've shown him calm and stable. It's like catch 22: we get calm, we try move forward, he wobbles, I get upset and he blames me getting upset! He says I need to grow up and not expect a fairytale and have an adult relationship and put the work in.

Do I walk away? Is this just not meant to be - can a man this reluctant turn out to be happy being a parent? (Probably is my last chance at kids, but equally I'd rather miss out than not be in the right situation). Do I try to calm my anxieties down and try hold his hand through it? Am I being too sensitive?

OP posts:
Bigearringsbigsmile · 22/10/2019 21:18

Skank!!!!! Bloody autocorrect!

quincejamplease · 22/10/2019 21:18

If you just wanted people to agree with you that he's Prince charming and you're at fault then you should have said that at the outset instead of wasting people's time.

Nobody has said he's a monster. That's your fear. You're projecting.

You're right. Things aren't black and white. Abusive men aren't monsters. They're regular humans with good qualities too who make choices to abuse others. And there's also the fact that if they never had a kind, loving moment nobody would get close enough for them to abuse them... It's calculated. You wouldn't have put up with all this shit if he hadn't had nice moments, would you? Something to think about.

I was incredulous that you could describe all this awful shit he has done but then say how grateful you are he has stuck by you. Clearly it's the other way around.

But you've got some serious cognitive dissonance going on here as you try to convince yourself this relationship is what you wish it was, telling yourself and us all kinds of ridiculous lies to force it into that perfect model. And the only way you can turn this shitshow into your fantasy is by blaming yourself for his shitty behaviour and blaming yourself for not being okay with it.

Bringing a child into this disaster - even taking account of his good qualities - would be a hideous thing to do.

I don't know what kind of incompetent or irresponsible therapist would encourage someone to continue a relationship.like this or try to bring a child into it.

I'm sure you'll come back with another ream of excuses about how I'm being mean and focusing on the wrong things and failing to position enough blame with you...

Since you have the full picture, why don't you check out the Freedom Programme, then you can evaluate for yourself - if you can find the courage to be honest with yourself - whether this falls into a healthy relationship or an unhealthy one: www.freedomprogramme.co.uk

carly2803 · 22/10/2019 21:24

i stoppedreading after you put he cheated

after 5 months together?!!

end it OP - do not bring a child into this awful mess

if you get shut f him now you might meet someone to have a baby with

sugarlips2015 · 22/10/2019 21:26

Gosh that's a programme for domestic violence. Not appropriate but thanks.

OP posts:
ScreamingLadySutch · 22/10/2019 21:34

@lips he does not want to have a baby with you. He is very clearly communicating this.

I am sorry how disappointing that is, but you need to face it.

flossletsfloss · 22/10/2019 21:39

He is not a good egg. Full stop. Sorry OP but open your eyes.

Cambionome · 22/10/2019 21:42

In the nicest possible way op, grow up. You are determined to ignore all advice from everyone who has read your post but it's painfully obvious that this relationship is not going to last. He cheated on you and gave you an STI!! Read that back to yourself... he is not a good person!

Whatwouldbigfatfannydo · 22/10/2019 21:43

The Freedom Programme examines the roles played by attitudes and beliefs on the actions of abusive men and the responses of victims and survivors. The aim is to help them to make sense of and understand what has happened to them, instead of the whole experience just feeling like a horrible mess. The Freedom Programme also describes in detail how children are affected by being exposed to this kind of abuse and very importantly how their lives are improved when the abuse is removed.

Knowingly putting you at risk of serious STIs due to his repeated cheating and refusal to wear condoms is abusive.
Emotionally manipulating you is abusive.
Gaslighting and lying to you is abusive.
And sorry to be harsh, but knowingly bringing a child into a situation where they may be neglected is also abusive.

It's not just about violence and since you are determined to portray this sorry excuse for a partner as a good man, you may actually benefit from taking a look at it.

Gemma1971 · 22/10/2019 21:43

OP do you want people to lie and say wow what a catch, go for it..... no matter how "nice" (cough cough) this bf of yours appears to be for the most part, the facts are as follows:

He is a cheat.
He cheated twice.
He does not want a child with you.
He probably doesn't even want anymore children.
He gave you a STD.

Look at the facts. Stop thinking with your vagina... or with your hormones longing for a baby.

Having a baby is HARD WORK. You have MS. Your partner does not want a baby. WTH do you think is going to happen when you have the baby and you are exhausted.. the MS has got worse... you are too tired for sex... baby sick and poo everywhere.... Mr "Wonderful" will go out for a random shag no doubt. Why not.... he did it twice before when clearly he just felt like it... why would he not do it again.

And I have been in your shoes with another waste of space who said he WANTED children with me, but the minute I got pregnant, was nowhere to be found and busy booking himself a flight out of the country and asking ME to pay for it. And then when I sadly miscarried, I I got a fucking phone call. Again, nowhere to be found. Except on dating sites.

Wise up lady. Children are WORK. They need stability. You are actually being really selfish to consider bringing an innocent baby into this situation.

Gemma1971 · 22/10/2019 21:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MashedSpud · 22/10/2019 21:46

If he’s that wonderful you wouldn’t be posting here.

He’s cheated, he’s a crap dad, he’s having second thoughts.

Defend him all you like but have a back up plan when he walks away and leaves you sick and caring for a child alone.

Cecilandsnail · 22/10/2019 22:02

I want to put it nicely and kindly but I also want to scream WAKE THE FUCK UP at you Op. This is not going to end well. You're making every excuse under the sun, but the fact you've even started this thread shows you have some reservations...and for good reason. Listen to your gut. And us. We're all screaming at you to run away lile your pubes are on fire. You every post about this guy gives me a horrible sinking feeling. Don't make the biggest mistake of your life and bring a baby into this shit show.

sugarlips2015 · 22/10/2019 22:19

I don't just want people to agree with me. But what can you offer a baby, you have a dengenetive illness? And being called selfish is all a bit harsh. Empathy not some people's strengths. Thanks to most of you for your comments and going to think about it all carefully but finding some comments hurtful and so not going to look at anymore.

OP posts:
Plastictattoo · 22/10/2019 22:33

I'm very much a lurker as I think its so hard to comment/ judge on people's lifes on just a few paragraphs. However, you sound so lovely from your OP. I think you are far too good for this man. If you were one of my mates, I would say this:
He is trying to tell you that he doesn't want a child ( with you or anyone).
During the loved-up/ honeymoon phase, he cheated on you twice and gave you an STI.
You are worth more than this (and I think in your heart of hearts you know this)
If you want a child within a loving, supportive relationship, you are not with the right person (again, I think you realise this too).
Have you thought and explored other options? ( So easy to say, I know)
I sincerely wish you all the best. You seem like you would be a great Mum and I hope you get that chance. Good luck x

sugarlips2015 · 22/10/2019 22:41

Thank you that's nice

OP posts:
afreshstart1 · 22/10/2019 22:45

@sugarlips2015 I'm so sorry you are in this shit situation

Tbh your bloke sounds like he is not one you should be keeping

I understand you want a baby but this is not someone you should be having a baby with

I would cut him loose and see what the universe has to offer

You have a good few years to find a partner with whom to have a baby if that's what you want and if after a year or so you haven't found anyone you can consider speed donor/ ivf when you are in a better place.

You say you had 5 good months with this guy and then he cheated on you twice and gave you an sti. He does not respect you. If you get pregnant by him ( which he clearly doesn't want) you are opening a can of worms and will forever have him in your life or your dcs life ( even if he is not interested)

Best of luck

Im sure it's very hard but you are better than this

Whatwouldbigfatfannydo · 22/10/2019 22:48

I have a lot of empathy but right now its for the poor child that would be brought into this deeply unhealthy situation. Being a parent means always putting your child's needs above your own. You aren't doing that when it's so clear that your partner doesn't want this child but you insist on one anyway.
I disagree that your condition means you would be unable to offer the child anything but realistically, you may not always be able to meet their needs.
Why risk the child being neglected?

rvby · 22/10/2019 23:10

@sugarlips2015 why do you want to have a baby with someone who doesn't want one? What do you predict will happen?

xJodiex · 23/10/2019 00:14

''Said he doesn't feel a burning desire for a child as he has one, but if I want one, he's up for it.''

He obviously doesn't want this poor unborn child. Don't do this to a child, please.

Wilberforcethecat · 23/10/2019 00:35

OP please don't bring a child into this situation. It really is the worst situation to have a child in. If he is such a great guy he needs to focus on the child he already has not bringing a new baby into the equation.

avidlounger · 23/10/2019 00:35

Sadly, the conflict appears to be within - your head is seeking the answers your heart doesn't want to hear. You've come to a place where relationships are discussed daily and many of the members (myself included) draw on the experience we've had before; the knowledge doesn't come from a place of naivety or ill-intent.

In addition to the list of things your boyfriend has done, there's also the description of yourself and your experiences - loss of family, talk of attachment relationships and insecurity amongst other things. This reads as coming from a place of understanding yourself - although I'm hoping your self reflection on your earlier experiences isn't leading to excusing another's behaviour. I hope the psychologisation of self doesn't take away from the basic premise of: feeling safe in relationship is two way. You feel safe, trust the other - the other's behaviour adds to this cycle or takes from it. If the signals are saying "unsafe, don't trust" then you will be triggered. The bigger picture of your story adds to your experience of this cycle and may (depending on your story) explain a valency for a particular relationship type or person - but that cycle of trust and safety is there for everyone. If he's not presenting you consistently with trust and safety in the relationship, that's the problem. It's not about his story why he's not presenting it - you're not his psychologist, formulating his story and trauma, fixing past hurts. You're his partner - to love and be loved.

Where am I coming from with this? Three years of weekly therapy got me past chasing the sexiness of danger and mistreatment that I thought was love, helped me get past the gaslighting and cheating of an ex (whose children I brought up). A non-sexual therapeutic relationship with a male therapist made all the difference to understanding myself in a relationship where fucking wasn't an option. I'm not fixed entirely, but i know my patterns and triggers and my radar is "on". I also know that love shouldn't make anyone anxious or distressed, leave you on tenterhooks or talk yourself into bad choices because you're ignoring the red flags waving in your face. This isn't romance or mysterious, sexy or exciting. Love, (not lust, want or desire) should leave you calm, safe and at ease.

I stopped listening to my friends, family, and ignoring the stress signs of my own body until breakdown. My body's symptoms became daily living and I stopped recognising the visceral experience of threat and distress because I shut it down and ignored it - mind and body. I sought the tiniest bit of tenuous "evidence" to prove myself right when wading through piles of strong evidence proving me wrong which I ignored, conveniently explained away with my unique story about this great guy no one understood like me. My self involvement reached ridiculous levels because, not feeling safe or secure, I couldn't do much beyond thinking of myself and how I would fix X situation each time a new one arose. And this was with teenage stepchildren, not a baby. I look back in shame; surprised I still have friends from that time who didn't turn from me and that I "let" it happen. I'm stronger and glad of who I am and what I've got through - I wish I hadn't learned the hard way.

Whether you have a baby with this man, meet a different person or use a donor - please think carefully before bringing a child into a situation that could turn out like mine above. I learned my patterns from watching my dad mistreat my mum for 30+years, cheating constantly and being left heartbroken - the message over the years was that men do this to women and it's fine, that women endure and tolerate. He had other families, gave her STDs, stole her money and she took him back time and time again. After I left home, he became violent towards her. I promised myself as a teen I could see through it all and would never let it happen to me. Wasn't that simple though, to stop and undo the insidious beliefs that had permeated my life.

Why am I sharing this? Reading the above posts and wondering what I could offer that was not just repeating previous messages, and wanting to help. I'm hoping it helps you see the pain and the challenge that you don't need to put yourself through to love and be loved.

prawnsword · 23/10/2019 01:25

You have MS, don’t want to parent alone & this guy is clearly not onboard. You are steamrolling him into doing what you want. You are not listening to him, you keep trying to talk him around in order to get the outcome you desire, but it will backfire on you because he will 100% leave you sooner or later. I think you are Completely delusional & I can see why you don’t listen to him, because you have come on here to supposedly discuss this issue with other women but have ignored unanimous advice.

You’re in the danger zone of thinking you know this person better than they know themselves. It’s a very egotistical way of thinking. He doesn’t want a child & he will not support your child should anything happen to you, so you best make plans to go it alone if you do decide to have a baby

I am concerned though that you have a romanticised version of what parenthood is like. You gloss over him not being close with his son because he did not attend parent teacher evenings ? What kind of kid cares if their parents missed a parent teacher evening ! You won’t see the truth because you are desperate to have a baby & will see whatever you want.

Honestly I think you are selfish like he is. You don’t care what will make him happy, which sounds like not having more kids is what will ultimately make him happy. You have MS which is a serious condition that worsens over time & you want to bring a baby into a situation where you have zero family support & an unstable relationship, but you say you don’t want to go it alone. Your post & attitude is all kinds of messed up.

ValidVictorian · 23/10/2019 05:32

I think you need to decide, do you want this man OR do you want a baby? I don't think you can have both.

Nagsnovalballs · 23/10/2019 05:57

My mum suddenly wanted a child aged 39 and met my dad. She was totally blinded to his faults. He was intelligent , handsome and charming. My mother had been abandoned by her family and had never had a long relationship after her first major one of a few years broke down (love of her life stuff).
She (Almost wilfully) didn’t notice his lies and cheating until she was pregnant. Then she got told by his brother about his wife in another country and that was the beginning of the end. She was left pregnant and alone. He went back to his wife and kept me a secret. My younger bro and sis found out about me when they were teens. It’s a mess.

This guy is telling you who he is and (like my mum) your desire for family is overriding your spidey senses. If you go ahead, you will be doing this on your own, now or in the near future. So either start again with a decent man or use a sperm donor - as that is all this man is good for too.

Blueoasis · 23/10/2019 05:58

He is actually right, you shouldn't have a baby with him.

But you're not going to listen to us, so go into this expecting to be a single mum. There is literally no other outcome here. He will run away even when you are sick because he is a coward. You might think otherwise, but you're wrong. He will run. But have your child if you must with him.