Moving out from abusive partner and legal rights

[Lena007]

I'm planning to move out with DS to escape abuser. He knows I will be moving out but doesn't know when.

Is it legal to take some furniture with me? (Sofa bed, TV stand and table and chairs, the rest of it I can leave behind). 4 bedroom house fully furnished. He says I'm not allowed to take anything except of personal possessions like clothes/shoes. Everything else is joined therefore because I voluntarily leave the house, it has to stay in it until we divorce. I just want a few basics for a start so I won't have to buy it all again. He is not willing to sell the house and is planning to rent bedrooms when I'm gone. The house is jointly owned still on mortgage. Can he do this when I object?

I'm scared that I won't be allowed to be back in the house and won't see everything left there ever again.

I'm so lost.

I've left.

Police had to be called because he came in and blocked my car so that I couldn't leave.
Police helped, all fine.

We went to my friends house and he phoned DS asked if he could see him for 2 minutes just wanted to make sure he is fine. He talked to him for a minute outside, quietly so I didn't hear and then he said DS told him he wants to live at his home and then he took him away! There was nothing I could do. I'm shattered, exhausted.

I'm sitting here crying. Called police but they cant do anything until residence order is in place.

Does anyone have any advice what to do?
Solicitor applied for residence order a few days ago but I have no idea how long it is going to take.

I have all DSs clothes, school uniform, bag, games, ipad, favourite toys. He just took him and I couldn't do anything. Ffs why? We had to run away from our home only for him to take DS back by promising him they both can still stay at the house, in his favourite bedroom.

He has reported me to police for taking stuff away from Home, yes I took some, but was advised by solicitor to take a 'fair share' and all DSs stuff. He has also said that I took DSs stuff and he has now nothing left at home, as if I had robbed him. He was meant to stay with me.

What can I do? How can I get him back? Dad is already working on him. MIL is going to stay at our home for foreseeable future to look after DS whilst his daddy is working f### hard to afford expensive legal fees. Police can not do anything.

Grateful for any advice.

Oh god what did you let him get to him for? You've been so conditioned. He's a dangerous man. He took him because he could and because he wanted to hurt you.
Get to a solicitor tomorrow and get an emergency court application in for a child arrangements order. If he takes him to school then go and get him back before the end of the day.

Yes emergency application. Go to your old house or school when he's not there and get him.

O dear god. What a unholy mess. Was it your intention to move out yesterday and he blocked your car, or were you planning to do a flit as soon as you had a court order to force a sale?

1. Make an emergency ex parte application for a prohibited steps order or a child arrangements order to return ds to your care and to prevent your abuser from removing him at least until the full hearing of the case which is normally within 28 days or so from the date of the order.

1. Make an emergency ex parte application for an occupation order which will put you back in the house and compel your abuser to leave. You'll then have 28 days or so before the full hearing to take stock and regroup, plus ds will be back in his familiar surroundings and may be more amenable towards you than if you have installed him in a property that he considers to be less desirable than the home he has hitherto known.

These orders can be granted today and will allow you to re-establish the status quo immediately.

Don't beat yourself up about allowing ds to speak to him outside for 2 minutes as taking ds was always on the cards - in fact I intended to post again to warn you that this may happen, albeit that I anticipated that he may make a move in this direction after you had left by failing to return ds from contact.

When will ds be 11? Please be aware that ds is rapidly approaching the age at which the child's wishes as to where he lives/who he lives with will be taken into account by a court of law and, from what you've said, it sounds as if your abuser has done a real number on your ds.

I don't wish to alarm you but I have no confidence in Cafcass's ability to look beneath the surface and you may have to be mighty cunning to counteract your abuser's lies and, most probably, your ds's too.

Please DON'T DELAY! Get on to your solicitor first thing. If she's not available insist on speaking to another. Your application(s) must be made asap this morning otherwise your abuser could steal a march on you and obtain these orders for himself.

The application fee for these orders is £215 each but these fees can be waived if you are on a low income or are in receipt of benefits. If you don't quality you'll have no choice but to beg or borrow if you want to be reunited with your ds in the near future.

As it stands, there's nothing to stop your abuser from maintaining that your ds doesn't want to see you and he's not going to force him to do so.

The only alternative would be bold action on your part whereby you move back in to a house that you jointly own and from which he can't remove you without a court order.

@DonKeyshot

Thanks very much, that's really helpful. I'm in bits.

I didn't want to wait until court order, it got really nasty. DS just turned 9. I don't want to go back to this house, I'm scared of him. We have managed to move everything yesterday. We were going to stay at one of DS's best friends house and DS was content and agreed when I spoke to him.

My solicitor applied for emergency legal aid and child residence order last week. But she is now away on holiday until the following Wednesday. The office is closed due to the bank holiday and reopens tomorrow. Can another solicitor chase it for me if I can find someone else today?

How quickly can I get child residence order if it's an emergency?

Hang on, so you are not in the UK? None of the legal advice about occupation orders and ex parte orders is necessarily relevant, in that case. Which country are you in? Othrr posters may know the law for that country.

@funnylittlefloozie

I'm in Scotland

It's not an actual bank holiday @Lena007, just a local one. Ayrshire's was last weekend. The court should still be open today.
I've heard of them being granted the same day. You just need to be very proactive.

Speak too Court and school
and pick him up tomorrow
I think you are so conditioned into doing what he says

I'm not familiar with the laws of Scotland but it seems that for an ex parte injunction (above) you should substitute 'interim interdict' and 'child residence order' for child arrangements order' and you should make your application at your nearest Sheriff Court,

In England/Wales ex parte orders can be applied for at any hour of the day and night and I have no reason to suppose that the law of Scotland differs greatly from its next door neighbours in this respect.

I would imagine that court fees for applying for such orders are on a par with England/Wales and the fees can be waived for lower income applicants, but please don't quote me on this.

Are you absolutely certain your solicitor's office is closed? Do they have an out of hours number? If so, speak to another solicitor today. This is an emergency and you can't, and must not, wait for your usual solicitor's return from holiday.

I'll continue to google to see if I can find any other information that will be of use to you so check back here when you can.

Although they are unable to dispense the law, I have found that court staff can be extremely helpful to those who are unaided.

If push comes to shove, I would suggest you go to your nearest Sheriff Court and throw yourself on their mercy seek assistance with filling out the necessary forms for interim interdicts.

I believe that the Scottish courts are well-versed in domestic abuse cases and there is no reason to suppose that you will not be treated sympathetically.

If applied for this morning and the court looks favourably on the merits of your application, you can expect interim interdicts to take effect as soon as the court grants them which will be later today, hopefully before lunch.

Do you have an out of hours number for your/a Women's Aid counsellor/worker? If so, give them a call and ask them to advise or source another solicitor.

@DonKeyshot

Solicitors office definitely closed until tomorrow, I've phoned and there is a message saying they are back tomorrow. I've phoned another one and waiting to hear back.
Guess the best option is to go to the court, and speak to someone there. I will keep you updated, thanks!

All local sheriff courts closed due to bank holiday

I'm wondering if a shout on a high traffic board such as AIBU would produce results.

Something along the lines of 'AIBU to ask if there are any solicitors in Scotland who specialise in domestic abuse and might be willing to advise me' and post with a link to this thread.

The problem is that your abuser is manipulative and calculating. While I would like to think that he wasn't expecting you to leave when you did and that he doesn't have a solicitor lined up, and that this bank holiday has effectively prevented him from applying to the courts to shore up his position, I can''t be certain that this is the case and I fear for you and the welfare of your ds if he gets in ahead of you, so to speak.

Much as I love google it has seriously let me down today because I can't any info re applying for interim interdicts out of hours, but that doesn't stop me believing that it can be done.

Is your ds off school today and will your abuser have gone to work leaving ds in the care of his dm? Do you feel up to paying a visit to assure ds that you're not angry with him and to counteract any other bullshit his df may have told him?

Isn’t there a thing that if DS has been left in the care of someone with no PR that the police/social services can remove them?

Even if it's not the case, it might be worth a try Clangus.

Go to house, check that the abuser has gone to work (absence of his car from the premises?), if mil or any other adult answers door ask to see/speak to ds, take ds by hand, tell mil/other adult that as they do not have PR you are removing ds from their care, drive off with ds before police/abuser arrive, keep ds off school tomorrow while legal matters are clarified/completed.

Abuser at home with DS, he is off work today and tomorrow. He phoned and Requested DSs PlayStation, computer, ipad, bike, toys and school uniform, school bag and the rest of the stuff because DS wants to be in the house. He is going to take him to school tomorrow and speak to the head teacher to advise her of the situation and that only him can pick DS from school. I always take him to school in the morning but I've been told I cant because he is going to do it.

MIL arriving tomorrow.

What do I do?
If I go and take the school uniform and whatever needed for school, and nothing else. And as you suggest above try to speak to DS to assure him that its all fine. I was thinking to tell him that I will pick DS tomorrow so he can spend the next two days with me and surely his dad can't refuse?

I'm moving it to AIBU.

Don't ask him anything. He can try and tell the school you're not allowed but he doesn't have a court order and the school can't prevent you picking him up. Call the school yourself and talk to them about what he's done.

Don't tell him anything. Don't take him anything. He can't tell the school that you aren't allowed to pick him up, but don't tell him that either.
Wait until DS is at school then go and collect him. Make sure your application for whatever order is correct has been filed. Get your solicitor to do the work.

You DONT HAVE to jump to his will. He has absolutely no more right to that stuff that you do and he has no right to tell the school that at all

Why are you moving it to AIBU. This is because he has groomed and abused you into thinking that you should ask how high when he says jump not that you have the right to say no in the first place

Please don't ask MNHQ to remove this thread to the bunfight that is AIBU. Just give a shout out for a Scottish solicitor well versed in domestic violence cases and provide a link.

Feel free to ignore his request for all except the very bare minimum of ds's school uniform and tell him that you will hand this over at the school gates as you intend to have a word with the Headteacher tomorrow.