DP's marriage ended because he had an affair.

[YourLittleVeniceBitch]

We have spoken about it at great length. He has never minimised or made excuses for it. I know how much he regrets his actions and wishes he could go back and do things differently. The relationship wasn't a happy one and he took the cowards exit door. The knock on effect this has had on his relationship with his DC/the time he now has with them breaks his heart and he goes over and above to see them as much as he possibly can. He had extensive counselling to try and gain insight and make whatever changes he felt needed to be made.

In the 1.5 years we have been together he has never caused me so much as a single moment of worry or doubt. He is totally open and transparent. I trust him.

Am I a fool? I truly don't believe that life is as black and white as the MN mantra of "Once a cheat always a cheat" and I know from my own previous long term relationship that monogamy/fidelity can be a tricky path to navigate. I have done things in the past that I now bitterly regret and know I would never do again. Is it not possible that he has also matured and learned from his past as I have? Or is someone automatically a write off as a human being as soon as they have an affair? (I'm not defending affairs at all btw, just genuinely struggling to get my own thoughts/feelings on the subject figured out).

AIBU to believe that someone can fuck up in such a monumental way and learn from the experience and not inevitably do the same thing again?

This is all a bit jumbled, sorry. We're talking about moving in/marriage and I guess there is a tiny voice in the back of my head that says "He did it to his ex he might do it to you". But then again, someone who has never cheated before could also do it to me. You can never ever know what someone is going to do.

Any advice would be very welcome.

Of course there are people out there who cheat without huge thought or real remorse. And then for some cheating is one step down a long path. I think someone who has been through that process and truly learnt from it, lived through the awfulness of the fall out etc and undertaken therapy and real introspection is someone I could trust.
I really don’t buy the ‘once a cheat; always a cheat’ saying. It’s a crude reductivism.

Lots of people don't cheat and never would. I have never cheated and know absolutely that I never would. I have never been cheated on either.

I don't think "once a cheat always a cheat" but I know I could never have got involved with a man who had cheated. I just would never be able to trust him.

Cheating does not just happen despite a poster saying it does. It's a choice. You choose to get into a situation where it can happen, you choose to take your clothes off and you choose to have sex with someone who is not your husband/wife/partner.

For me, cheating is always wrong. I know there are various scenarios that lead to it but it is always a choice.

I know I would never cheat because of the way I feel about cheating and cheats. I would never be able to live with the guilt

Sorry for writing "planning" instead of "discussing" moving in with your dp. I'm not sure how that touched a nerve, or what rigid opinions that means I have. Actually it was just because I couldn't be arsed to search the thread to see exactly how far a random stranger's plans/thoughts had progressed. I can't see how it makes a difference to the point I was making that you should not feel pressured to move in with him.

I feel a wee bit reluctant to start merging lives/finances etc when me and my kids have a lovely little house and are very settled. This is what stood out for me. If you don't move in together, you'll be doing what feels natural to you and avoiding the issue of any further upheaval for the kids if he did cheat on you.

BTW OP, I do hope that you too read the thread and thus saw my third comment in the context of the others I had made previously 😉

Even the biggest playboy will settle down if he's happy

Nobody can be happy all the time and this is where character & values kick in. What happens when the playboy feels unhappy because spouse is ill, or small children are demanding?
This is the essence of cheaters & disordered individuals, they feel entitled to happiness ( adoration, fun, regular sex) but sometimes you have to ride the unhappy times to sustain a marriage. Having a substitute lined up is deceitful, it means lying to your partners face, perhaps spending family money on the affair partner..there are better ways to end a marriage.

I think age is a factor as young people may screw up but if you are late 20s or early 30s I think you need to look to yourself.
The cheated on partner doesn't ever deserve to be lied to. That's not to say they are perfect but they don't deserve lies.

Nobody can be happy all the time I agree.

But some of the marriages when someone has an affair, have been unhappy for a long time.

Not just a few off days / weeks , often months and months , even years.

Partners get busy, life gets in the way - and before you know it no one listening no how many conversations you've have.

It's It constant unhappiness that causes the problems not a couple of bad arguments - which most relationships can weather.

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe I agree that relationships and affairs can be complex. I also agree that many people who have affairs are unhappy (I just don't think that you HAVE to be unhappy to do so, I know people who cheated for the ego boost or just because they could).

Some of the excuses you gave about why men don't leave their wives are such clichés though. Men can nearly always leave if they wish too...it's the women that are often left to struggle financially. Father’s will get access to their children unless there is abuse so that's not really a valid point. Of course families and finances are entwined when people are in a relationship but that's not an excuse for staying if you're unhappy. It sounds to me like you've been fed the 'cheaters' script. 'I don't love my wife, I'm only with her for the children's sake.' 'She doesn't understand me.' 'I will lose too much money if I leave.' ......oh and the best one 'We've not had sex for years.' I'm sorry if I sound sarcastic but cheaters lie....and they do it easily.

I can also categorically say that I would never cheat on anyone as I have been cheated on and I could never put another human being through that kind of pain. I also know that I won't cheat because I'm a decent person and I would have the balls to speak up if I wasn't happy/wanted to end my relationship.

Happy people generally don't need an ego boost.

And leading a double life is a lot of hassle (so I'm told)

Affairs are hassle and most people can't be bothered.

It usually done to fill a void of some kind - that happy people don't have.

Some of the excuses you gave about why men don't leave their wives are such clichés though. Men can nearly always leave if they wish too...it's the women

It maybe cliches doesn't make it any the less true.

Sorry if this isn't what you want o heat but Considering the number of unsuccessful relationships he has already had it is unlikely yours is his happy ever after. After all what has actually changed about him? He is the same person and disaster relationships can't only be blamed on the other party.
However if you protect yourself, your assets and your children, you can be happy while it all lasts.

Funky

"Considering the number of unsuccessful relationships he has already had....."

Two. He's had two unsuccessful relationships. He's 43 years old. Explain to me how that is a high/excessive number for 25 years of being an adult?

@Robin2323 we're all entitled to our own opinions. I don't believe everyone who cheats is unhappy. There are people (due to their character) that will always be more susceptible to cheating.....and I don't believe all of the cliches I'm afraid. Nine times out of ten men can leave if they want to.

However in this case, I believe that he was probably unhappy with his wife, he's made one mistake and he's done everything he can to rectify the situation. I believe he's only as likely to cheat in the future as anyone else. He's not minimising and he's worked through the reasons it happened.

My DH had an affair when he was married to his ex. We too have talked at length about it and he has never minimised his behaviour at all. He has been so candid about it all, never shied from taking responsibility. I too had the wobble that you are having but decided to accept the person in front of me warts and all. Its led to us being completely open about feelings and mistakes, we can talk about anything without flinching.

Happy to say 14 years later we are still going strong with two DC. I've never had a moment to doubt him. He knows what is at stake and what he has to lose.

Funnily enough we were talking about this yesterday. I firmly believe the ability to take responsibility and face up to it is the difference. If he is open about his behaviour and wants to understand why it happened then actually it can be a positive from a negative.

I think people do have the capacity to change and we are not one dimensional in being good or bad. We are all human and make mistakes.

I would be really interested in his ex wife's take on things. Not sure how you can get that though. How old are the kids?

I think as PP’s have said, it’s not what he did in the past, it’s the fact he’s proven himself to be a very proficient liar. That’s the part that would have me twitching because it’s not easy to juggle 2 women, kids, work etc without a talented ability to barefaced lying.
And yes, my ex was the same !
Your gut feeling is your friend.

Did you also have an affair @YourLittleVeniceBitch? You talk about looking for validation outside your previous relationship which made me wonder.

How long was the affair? Did he confess to his wife or was he 'found out?' Did he try to reconcile with her or just leave her? To me, the answer to these points would be important as to how I viewed his behaviour. I actually view the fact that he stayed with his affair partner as being worse than if he had just broken it off and been contrite about what happened, but that's purely my own view.

Should someone be punished forever for what, he presumably now accepts, was a horrible thing to do? No. But I don't think I would be able to settle in my relationship knowing that my partner had history for running into someone else's bed if things got difficult.

@83PL
Do you mean they can leave because they have more money?

*@83PL *
we're all entitled to our own opinions. I don't believe everyone who cheats is unhappy.

I had the same argument with my male friends who say they wouldn't cheat if they was happy.

Genuine question- how can you know if the cheating spouse is happy or not.

Years ago I knew someone - late thirties who seem so happy
He fancied himself as a bit of the jack the lad - had the occasional ons.

But it was all a front - I got the call from the hospital at work.

Who knows what's going off in anyone's life?

Of course Robin, but that is the sort of perpetual unhappiness which drives the philanderer to philand. It has nothing to do with the quality of their partner or the stste of their relationship (which is always the implication of the "they were unhappy" excuse).

They're unhappy because that is their permanent baseline and it will never change. They will spend their life soaring desperately towards the sun with glued on wings.

I think the bigger question here is (and forget age, logistics, kids etc for a moment), do you really feel he is for you? As in Long term/life partner? If so then let the past be in the past. I think the fact it is playing so heavily on your mind may say something. That said only you know how deep that runs. The problem is here I am sending distrust and that will chip away at a relationship (I am only going by what I am sending from your posts - I could be wrong). What is it you are hoping to achieve from this post? Clarity? Support? Advice? Answering that may help towards achieving what you are looking for.

I think sometimes people cheat, maybe even multiple times and then dont do it again ever. I think sometimes people cheat throughout their lives. There is not hard and fast rule. Ultimately it is what you can live with and be at peace with. Xx

Happy people generally don't need an ego boost

Needing to go outside the marriage for an ego boost is not normal for most people. It usually is an attempt to fill an internal void and acting on an affair reflects low emotional intelligence. You never make your life better, in the long term, by acting on an affair as the fallout is usually very high. Most people (with a conscious & empathy) who have affairs regret their actions afterwards and this is the message that would actually help people.

I am not saying no one can end a marriage but psychology is helping us understand that happiness is an inside job. You can be with the wrong person, especially if you got together young but in that case you end the marriage in a healthy way. Why would you invest in an affair (and it is a massive investment of time, money and subterfuge) when you could just invest in ending the marriage properly?

If people understood that affairs were symptoms or triggers that they needed to learn from NOT act on then there would be less emotional upheaval for families and society in general.

Disordered personalities (lacking a conscious and empathy) need excessive ego boosts, high levels of stimulation or otherwise feel bored and don't have object constancy. That is why some people repeatedly cheat..trouble is you don't know these people until you have been with them years and the adoration declines as happens in long term relationships. Taking responsibility and willingness to admit they looked outside for a fix, rather than do the harder path of personal insight is perhaps a way to sort the disordered from emotional immature. Emotional immature people can develop, disordered people can't.

It's all if, buts and maybes and very circumstantial imo.

Everyone is probably capable.

Someone could do it and never do so again. I don't think you're being a fool. You know your particular situation and relationship.

The only thing I got form this thread is that @Loopytiles is way too over invested in the childrens contact time with their father.

What a weird derailment.

Op, he either will or won't cheat. There will be nothing you can do to change the odds/prevent it.
If this is your only concern in what seems like a decent relationship, I wouldn't throw it away.

No I don’t believe someone who has cheated is forever more a cheat. I think people who cheat are unhappy, in one way or another, with their relationship.
I cheated when I was younger as I was miserably stuck in a relationship with someone I didn’t love any more. He wouldn’t let me go and I think I cheated, subconsciously, in the hope he would find out and end things.
He did find out (found love letters!) and STILL wouldn’t end things. I had lost all respect for him by this point and just walked out.
I’ve never cheated on my dh who I’ve been with for years because I love him and am happy. I know other friends who have cheated in past relationships but not with their dh’s.