DP's marriage ended because he had an affair.

[YourLittleVeniceBitch]

We have spoken about it at great length. He has never minimised or made excuses for it. I know how much he regrets his actions and wishes he could go back and do things differently. The relationship wasn't a happy one and he took the cowards exit door. The knock on effect this has had on his relationship with his DC/the time he now has with them breaks his heart and he goes over and above to see them as much as he possibly can. He had extensive counselling to try and gain insight and make whatever changes he felt needed to be made.

In the 1.5 years we have been together he has never caused me so much as a single moment of worry or doubt. He is totally open and transparent. I trust him.

Am I a fool? I truly don't believe that life is as black and white as the MN mantra of "Once a cheat always a cheat" and I know from my own previous long term relationship that monogamy/fidelity can be a tricky path to navigate. I have done things in the past that I now bitterly regret and know I would never do again. Is it not possible that he has also matured and learned from his past as I have? Or is someone automatically a write off as a human being as soon as they have an affair? (I'm not defending affairs at all btw, just genuinely struggling to get my own thoughts/feelings on the subject figured out).

AIBU to believe that someone can fuck up in such a monumental way and learn from the experience and not inevitably do the same thing again?

This is all a bit jumbled, sorry. We're talking about moving in/marriage and I guess there is a tiny voice in the back of my head that says "He did it to his ex he might do it to you". But then again, someone who has never cheated before could also do it to me. You can never ever know what someone is going to do.

Any advice would be very welcome.

"Loopytiles Tue 17-Sep-19 10:08:53
IMO a truly committed father would relocate to work and live close to his DC, and pursue overnight access every week through the courts."

Oh here we go, pick pick pick at an OP's relationship until it bleeds. Forget about the history of an affair the OP asked about, let's create a narrative based on skeletal facts, overactive imaginations and a massive dollop of speculation where he's a shit dad as well.

Somebodystired
I think his actions since his affair say more than his affair does. He has taken responsibility for it.

I'm with you OP. I've done awful things in my past that I would never, ever do again and I'd be devastated if my DH used these as reasons not to be with me in case it happened again
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That is an excellent post.

I've known people who were unfaithful in the past and would not do it again in a million years.

Your partner sounds like a good man. I hope his children will forgive him completely in time.

Am I a fool?

I don't think you're a fool at all. I don't buy into the 'once a cheater' thing either.

I think, of course, there are some people who will just never be faithful, but I think there are far more people who cheat as a symptom of unhappiness combined with the lack of courage to deal with it head on and end that relationship.

I don't think anyone who cheats is innately born to do it, or that they will just keep doing it forever. Many people have an affair and then end up staying faithful to that one partner to the rest of their life.

Thirsty I decided not to even acknowledge that post. It's another subject that the majority of MN seems to see in only absolutes with no grey areas allowed. SO completely different to how things actually are in real life.

I didn't start this thread seeking instructions on how to proceed (if at all) with my relationship. I just wanted to hear other people's opinions about cheating/monogamy/whether or not people can change. It's a subject that fascinates me not just in the context of DP but in regards to myself as well. And the majority of the responses have been really considered and hugely helpful. Thank you.

DP cheated on his wife, he was upfront with me, more or less at the start.

9 years later, we have been through hell and back through various things, none of them have been him cheating.

We still have a good relationship and he is a good relationship with his ex wife (they have a son together)

As everyone else has said it depends. I know people who briefly cheat and then move on to the next relationship. These last long times but overall they have no idea how to get out of them so they just move on.

This sort of thread is always so difficult. It's so emotive as people will have cheated or been cheated on and will have formed a very strong view based on this.

I've never cheated or been cheated on (to my knowledge). I did however work for a very male, stale and pale firm and spent about four nights a week at restaurants and bars doing client entertainment / networking with the older male partners. It became very clear to me that there is a type of man (and woman I'm sure but I've only seen men) who is "once a cheat, always a cheat" and there are more than you would think and he is likely not the one you would expect. Prior to that I was very much of the view that people are trying their best to be monogamous but make mistakes, they learn, they grow and it is entirely possible that they move on and never repeat those mistakes. Although the man who learns and moves on exists too, I think he is likely to be the exception and not the rule.

It is sad to have such a negative view, I do think "once a cheat, always a cheat" is horribly pessimistic but having seen it all play out over and over again I haven't much choice in my view.

There were two senior partners now married to their former secretaries at this firm and now having affairs with the graduates. It is not just a cliche. These people exist, they have real wives who have chosen to trust them.

My friend had an affair with her boss. She wasn't the first and I'd be shocked if she were the last. If you met him with his family you really wouldn't expect it of him.

There are vast grey areas, but I could never fully trust someone who had cheated before I don't think. Everyone's experience is different.

My ex was pretty shitty to me during his affair, and has never really apologised for it; he just apologised for "breaking up our family", not for lying to me and the kids so blatantly that it was taking the piss. But I don't think he's any more likely than the next man to have another affair. I imagine he might feel he's been there, tried that and it wasn't worth the grief; his OW cheated on him 3 years down the line.

However, I wouldn't recommend him to anyone as great partner material. He always lied - just little lies, but consistently, e.g. making up a good reason for being late to a meeting etc. He always put himself first, appearing superficially helpful and friendly but, for instance, preventing me from doing an evening job when the kids were small by not coming home at agreed times. Or happy to splash out on his car but not on things for me and the kids. It does seem like his affair was a symptom of his general attitude. So in his case not necessarily a sign that he'll have another affair, but certainly part of the fact that he's generally unreliable.

Your guy might of course be totally different, but I'd certainly be careful and attach more significance to any "teeny little" red flags.

I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone who'd had an affair, but that's hugely influenced by what I've been through in the past.

If you've got to 18 months and you're happy with him, then maybe you should try and put it in the past. I don't think you can ever fully trust anyone.

I could probably deal with a suitor having had a past affair.

But I would definitely not date a father who had virtually no overnights with his DC, so was doing v limited parenting, even if this was partly or mainly due to his ex relocating and making access difficult.

To be honest (and maybe selfish) I feel a wee bit reluctant to start merging lives/finances etc when me and my kids have a lovely little house and are very settled. I don't want any upheaval for them (he couldn't move in here as no space for his DC so would mean a new house). ... Have been thinking long and hard about the possibility of continuing the relationship in our separate homes and maybe reconsidering further down the line when DC are older. But I think this could be seen as commitment-phobic?
Sounds perfectly sensible to me. Have been with my current partner for 2.5 years, no plans to move in together - we're 50+ so no plans to have our own family, he has a 9-year-old 50:50, living apart is best for everyone. Is the pressure you are feeling to do something you don't want coming from him, or are you just feeling weird about not doing the traditional thing?

I believe ALL men have the capacity to cheat.
Yes, I've been burned but I've seen it so often as well.
So I don't think it matters who you are with.
How do you know if you end this that the next man that comes won't or hasn't cheated?
He may just choose not to tell you.
I think as women, we have good gut instincts.
If yours is telling you that this one is good, then don't throw it away on what he 'could' do. Because any body 'could' do it.
Enjoy what you have OP.
We all have something in our past we aren't proud of.
As long as we own it and accept accountability then we can move on from it. He's done just that.

it's so hard to reconcile the person who did that with the person I know

Sadly, that's what so many of us say when we discover our OHs have had an affair; we just can't believe it or square it with the person we thought we knew

Clearly you have doubts or wouldn't have posted, and as regards someone's history there's baggage and baggage. In this particular case you know he's chosen to cheat, and personally that would prey on my mind too much - inevitable tricky times world be plagued by uncertainty and there'd be little pece of mind

We're all different though, and only you can decide if it's possible to live this way - but I wouldn't be too quick to uproot your settled lifestyle for this man

I think I would watch his relationship and attitude to xw and kids now. I would look for signs as to whether his regret was self focused and whether he continued to use his xw as a place for blame and I would be very wary of becoming the new blame person.

I think I would keep the separate houses and keep enjoying the relationship you have for now. I don't think once a cheater always a cheater. I do think that a habit of blaming and bailing under stress can show in a variety of ways.

I would like to see him apologise to his wife and show awareness of exactly how much damage he did.

My ex said all of those things too. Turns out, his deep pain and regret was only for himself, and when I didn't get over it quickly enough by brushing it under the carpet, he moved very swiftly on.

He is just fine. Next. Other people's pain? Well I am just a bitter bitch and the children are FINE.

YourLittle I think that sounds sensible; if I'm honest. It's not being commitment phobic, it's recognising that you've got kids and things to protect and that marriage might not make as much sense now.

• It does seem like his affair was a symptom of his general attitude. So in his case not necessarily a sign that he'll have another affair, but certainly part of the fact that he's generally unreliable.

Your guy might of course be totally different, but I'd certainly be careful and attach more significance to any "teeny little" red flags.*

@ravenmum says what I was trying to say, so much better. I think it all comes down to character, OP.

The comment about 'cheating because not happy in your marriage'. Well, that assumes it is a dynamic.

But why does nobody stop to consider that the characteristics required to cheat extensively:

selfishness, splitting, deceit, lack of empathy, lack of true attachment ...

are the characteristics that caused distress and problems in the marriage in the first place????

Sorry, posted too soon. So I am with @ravenmum. Yes everyone has baggage, and everyone can cheat and everyone can make mistakes.

But look for the little red flags that signal issues of character.

The affair didn't last 'a few months', you say he then carried on with her for 3 years. But his ex is the bad guy for finding someone new 6 months after her husband and father of her kids cheated on her and took up with OW?

I'm really glad you decided not to move your kids or impact on your kids with this guy.

He didn't just cheat and feel bad about it, he did it over and over again and carried on a relationship with OW for years.

The OW stops being the OW once she becomes the primary partner. As there is no "duplicity" anymore.

As I have said before on MANY thread like this, I was cheated on, for a long time, by someone EVERYONE thought wouldn't cheat.

Do I believe "once a cheat always a cheat" .....absolutely not. THis is bulls**t. People have different reason for cheating however one pretty common thread wwhether people LIKE it or not is....

People who cheat ARE NOT HAPPY. You can dress it up anyway you like, call them selfish, call them bitches/bast**ds, say "it wasn't like that for me, they were always so happy" etc etc No they weren't. They were people. People make mistakes. People are not always happy.

People who are cheated on.....YOU ARE NOT ANGELS. It took me a long time to face this and a LOT of therapy. I needed to see that I was not a victim as is often portrayed here. You are not the cheater and the victim, you are two people in a horrible situation. I was not perfect. I did make mistakes too and although I didn't commit the ULTIMATE MN SIN of cheating. I could have. Because I AM HUMAN

Anyone on this thread who said they would never be with a cheater, I pity you, genuinely. Your glass house will come crashing down around you if you can't forgive people who make mistakes.

OP take him on his own merit, as you know him. I know lots of people who cheated for various reasons. It doesn't mean they will or won't do it again but if we went into every relationship expecting it be a disney happy ever after we would all get very hurt. And if we didn't enter relationships because everything wasn't perfect then we would be very lonely.

On another note......I always find it sad when I see someone come on here with a NC to say "I never thought it would happen to me" IT CAN HAPPEN TO ANYONE. We are a complex mess of chemicals and emotions. We don't know what will happen tomorrow.

"People who are cheated on.....YOU ARE NOT ANGELS. It took me a long time to face this and a LOT of therapy. I needed to see that I was not a victim as is often portrayed here. "

Oh, absolutely. But who is saying that? Nobody is. That is not the point. The point is, that all issues should be addressed between the two of you. That takes honestly and negotiation, and being prepared to own up to your part to play.

The point of cheating is that someone takes a unilateral decision to go outside, whilst leaving the other person assuming monogamy, in order to maintain the benefits of monogamy. Yes, those clothes don't launder themselves, the house doesn't maintain itself and the kids don't raise themselves. The bills don't pay themselves and the roof doesn't fix itself. BENEFITS OF MONOGAMY that a single person/parent would otherwise have to do. Cheating is a decision made without the other person's knowledge or consent. THAT is the objection. That is fraud, and strangely it is punished in both the commercial and state sector. Only families are supposed to suck it up, be happy for their happy and examine their part to play...

There are lots of things a person can do, in order to address their unhappiness:

they can open their mouths
they can write a letter
they can book counselling
Hell, they can phone a divorce lawyer!

But every single one of those actions involve honesty, taking responsibility, being required to own their part to play, possibly even taking financial and administrative and property consequences ...

and none of those options come with a secret, exciting side dish of strange, do they????

So tell your therapist to go and do one. They should be glad I am not their client. I know exactly what I did wrong and have worked very hard in therapy to grow up beyond those character defects, but I never deserved the deceit and emotional abuse I got and nothing I did justified family destruction and waste of assets.

Writing as someone with

I think the nuclear family \permanent monogamy thing isn't necessarily best suited to temperaments and emotions.

Maybe but push for the "kids early family set up " is held to be the

I've worked in a number of different places . I temped in some fairly . I was horrified at the number of older women who would "push" me socially to get a man (any man) get i p

People who cheat ARE NOT HAPPY.

Lots of happy people cheat. Why on earth are people spreading this myth?

No, because he didn't just fuck over his wife, he fucked over his own children.

I think you know that that's what is really bothering you. If he hadn't had children this would be a different ball game altogether. No one is perfect. People have affairs. People marry the wrong person and have affairs and split. It does not follow that that person will then always cheat.

But for a parent with young children, the partnership angle is no longer really the most important. He would have known that his choice would be to finish his relationship honourably and have a better chance of good co-parenting, or to have an affair and risk blowing his childrens' world apart in the most destructive, negative way possible. He didn't trash a relationship, he trashed a family. Hae fucked his kids over.

That is why you can't make peace with this.