I'm ashamed of my adult DS!!!

[tumblelord]

My son is 38 and still lives at home with me and DH. He has DS5 and DD2 who he doesn't see despite spending 14k on legal fees to go through the courts. He works as a self-employed gardener so sometimes works 3-4 days a week and sometimes had no work for few weeks. He does give me a bit of board money but only a small amount because legal fees take a lot of his money. He flits from one girl to another after splitting up with his kids mum 3 years ago. I'm petrified of having another grandchild that I don't see.

He does have some good points. He buys his own food and pays his own personal bills. He is very popular and has lots of friends. He doesn't drink or take drugs so that isn't the cause of his behaviour. He can be very helpful with things around the house. He does all of the DIY and gardening and looks after the animals. He had a really hard time during court proceedings and his ex made up a lot of allegations but he stays positive about seeing his kids in the future.

I recently caught up with an old friend and I was ashamed when we were talking about our families. What can I do?

@iklboo The Birmingham Six, The Guildford Four: they went to prison. They weren’t guilty - or am I making that up? Just because there are abusers in this world doesn’t mean everyone accused of it is one. If that was the rules we played by you could accuse any random of anything - does that mean we should automatically believe the accusation? Have you not read The Crucible? Thank God people like you don’t get to be judges.

@Wrongdissection No not at all.

Would anyone listen after all this time?

Not if you still think he's innocent.

Looks like the judges in the OP's son's case are looking at the evidence and witness statements (some likely from the children) rather than just believing every word the wife says on face value. They don't withdraw supervised access on hearsay & gossip.

Glad there's those kind of judges who protect women & children from violence.

I give up! This has been completely derailed

I’m sorry that you are in this situation. He is obviously not a nice person. From your point of view of course you don’t want to chuck him out. I would not support him financially in his legal battles. Good on his ex for taking a stand. You can give him a roof over his head but nothing else. And give him a deadline to move out. He is a grown man. The die is cast.

Well, for one, forget about meeting his ex. You do not believe her so do her the favour of staying away. Let the court do its thing.

Your son isn't interested in adulting or he'd be working his socks off to pay his legal fees and provide for his kids, instead he's freeloading off Mum and dating again whilst not even working a real job.

I'd start by telling him the gardening lark isn't work and that he's doing it to get out of his fees and supporting his kids which is wrong and he needs to get a real, FT job. See what his reaction is. Bet you London to a brick it's to huff that he's the injured party. His kids are, they deserve so much better than a deadbeat dad who skives out of work to avoid his obligations to them.

I was wondering about how my mother in law can behave the way she does so this thread is very illuminating.

If he didn’t have the money to pursue access to his kids through the court. That would be a good thing for them and their mum. She must be terrified that her abusive ex is asking for overnights with her tiny children one of whom he has never met.

He had contact and he blew it. A dad who genuinely loved his children and wanted to see them would make the most of the contact he was given and use it as a chance to prove he was a good parent. Supervised contact is usually seen as a step up to unsupervised. He could have every other weekend like other dads if he had done this.

You are enabling his abuse of his ex and his children. At least you can see it now and are able to reflect on it. Not many people would at it takes courage.

Jabbercocky you are starting to sound unhinged.

@OP I'm sorry your thread has been derailed by Jabbercocky. Are you still here? I was going to post something that would hopefully be helpful.

OP have you posted this before? I remember exactly the same situation and the sort of denial that the son was violent. I will say the same thing here, courts dont usually stop access unless the father has been violent towards the child. There are many threads on here with women how have been physically and sexually abused by their ex partners yet they still get unsupervised access as the men didnt hurt the children.

I would absolutely give a deadline. 2 months to find a job and move out and stick to it. It will never get better otherwise. Please work on the relationship with your grandchildren not your son

@tumblelord I feel for you a bit. You are, as most people are, invested in seeing your own flesh and blood in the most positive light because there lingers that undercurrent 'if this is all true about my son, what does that say about me who raised him?' It is much easier from a personal standpoint to reject these possibilities, to hold on to a narrative where your son is the injured party and you are trying to support him. And right now, when the penny might be dropping that this is not quite the case, how do you do an about turn from your previous position and deal with challenges that this may bring - both psychologically for you, and practically in your dealings with your son from now on. (btw, from my perspective people can grow up to be brilliant people despite the hardest upbringings, and can grow up to be s0ds despite the best upbringings. What matters is how you to try to handle things now.)

There is that tiny tiny chance this has been an elaborate deceit from your son's ex, but this is extremely doubtful if she has asked you why you are enabling your son. I doubt this question would come from someone who is playing a game, unless they were a complete evil mastermind.

You are vulnerable too because you have complied with the narrative for so long - this of course makes it hard for you to start laying down the very reasonable boundaries that other people have suggested. Take care that you are safe if you are not sure. Where is your partner / son's father in all of this?

Your son could request contact in the contact centre until court is resolved. You could tell him to apply for social housing and that you will write a letter saying he can't live there anymore etc.
He should get a steady job if he can that he will work full time.
If he gets a 2 bedroom he can get a sofa bed so that the kids have a room.

OP, your son is a bastard.
Sorry, love. I honestly am - I have adult sons myself.
That's hard to deal with. That's heartbreaking to acknowledge.
The court wouldn't make the rulings it did without ample evidence. You needd to accept your son's ben a git and you need to prioritise your grandchildren over your son.

Where are you at OP? Have you made any decisions?

Update: My son was granted unsupervised access with GDS however GDS refuses to attend. It also appears that we have been misled and my son has behaved unpleasantly to his ex in the past. I read his documentation when he was out (awful, I know). Now what do I do?

"Behaved unpleasantly to his ex in the past"

wow.

That, I suspect, is the understatement of the century.

And and a complete explanation as to why he doesn't have contact, is self employed, etc etc

Your words from your other thread
”He was aggressive and threatening to his ex when she was pregnant. He isn't allowed to see DGD because she's seen as vulnerable due to her age. He is now allowed contact with DGS but DGS refuses to go with him. He smashed up a contact centre, made malicious reports to social services and spend hours parked near his ex's house to intimidate her.”

Your son isn’t unpleasant, he is a violent and abusive man,

What you can do is stop enabling his behaviour.

He can only dodge paying maintenance and keep abusing his children and ex wife through the court process because you are enabling him to by letting him live as he does and spend all his money intimidating her. Stop being a part of his abuse.

Kick him out and reach out to your DIL to apologise, wholeheartedly and unreservedly, with no expectations of contact or access to the grandchildren. She tried to reach out to you, can you imagine how hard that was for her? You need to apologise.

@Jabbercocky

Have you read the update? Have you anything to say?

I hope if my son behaved like yours had I'd be a bit quicker to throw him out.

If he gets a job he'll have his own bills to pay, food, legal fees, maintenance and then he might not be seen as being able to afford somewhere to rent so might not get a 2 bedroom..

What do you think his exwife is having to do ? She has no choice, she has to support her children without any financial help from their father.

Like a PP said, I personally think you should keep him at home to stop him from freeloading onto another unsuspecting woman. You're probably the only woman he can safely live with.

If you want to help your DGC then stop enabling your son to pursue them through the courts. The 14k has been a complete waste of money if the eldest doesn't even want to see him. Imagine how much that money could have helped them (even in a savings account for when they're older).

I also think you should leave the ex wife alone, or maximum send an email apologising for enabling the ongoing abuse. The poor woman has probably suffered enough.

You have avoided answering peoples questions, is he paying maintenance? I guess not since your other thread says he's not declaring his income to HMRC. So, He was violent to his 2 year old baby, abused his ex while she was pregnant, smashed up a contact centre in front of the son, sat outside her house to intimidate her, made false allegations himself to social services, doesn't pay for his children.....do you think he should have access? That £14k he spent on trying to get people to believe him could well have been given to her to spend on his children - but he won't do that will he? oh no, this isn't about money - it's about making sure she is in her place.

To be fair though my best friend's brother was arrested after his girlfriend called the police stating he had punched her in the garden. However, eye witnesses (neighbours) were able to give evidence that he had not touched her and that it was in fact her who assaulted him! Perhaps that is a rare case.

Apologies rtft and see in this case though the allegations seem to be correct?