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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

I'm ashamed of my adult DS!!!

137 replies

tumblelord · 15/09/2019 16:25

My son is 38 and still lives at home with me and DH. He has DS5 and DD2 who he doesn't see despite spending 14k on legal fees to go through the courts. He works as a self-employed gardener so sometimes works 3-4 days a week and sometimes had no work for few weeks. He does give me a bit of board money but only a small amount because legal fees take a lot of his money. He flits from one girl to another after splitting up with his kids mum 3 years ago. I'm petrified of having another grandchild that I don't see.

He does have some good points. He buys his own food and pays his own personal bills. He is very popular and has lots of friends. He doesn't drink or take drugs so that isn't the cause of his behaviour. He can be very helpful with things around the house. He does all of the DIY and gardening and looks after the animals. He had a really hard time during court proceedings and his ex made up a lot of allegations but he stays positive about seeing his kids in the future.

I recently caught up with an old friend and I was ashamed when we were talking about our families. What can I do?

OP posts:

Original poster

tumblelord · 15/09/2019 18:21

My most important relationship is with my son. That is not to be cruel but I have not seen DGS in over 2 years and haven't met DGD at all. But I didn't want it to be a choice.

OP posts:

VolcanionSteamArtillery · 15/09/2019 18:23

@tumblelord

After your last post I'd keep doing what your doing. Cos atm your primary interest is your son. While thats your primary relationship youd do better sticking your head back in the sand and pretending to yourself everything is fine. It will hurt you less that way.

Longlongsummer · 15/09/2019 18:27

Still not thinking of those kids...

Haffiana · 15/09/2019 18:27

Do I wait until after the next court hearing so that it doesn't jeopardise his very slim chance for overnight access?

You do understand that he is the one that has jeopardised his access? It isn't your doing. He made his choices.

And also - why is he asking for overnight when it seems from what you have said, that he never actually lived with his child at all? He also couldn't even manage supervised access, so why is he going for overnight? Can you see that this is to get at his ex?

BrendasUmbrella · 15/09/2019 18:28

I see the source of shame without any difficulty..

£14,000 on legal fees and the courts still aren't letting him see the children? Sorry but there is probably proof/evidence to back up his ex's claims. If even supervised access was pulled there is a reason.

And to cap it off, he wanted to be self employed and work cash in hand to avoid paying maintenance for his children. You realize he may stay at home with you until the youngest child leaves full time education? He's not in a rut, he's engaging in a war against the mother of his children, and you're helping him.

leomama81 · 15/09/2019 18:28

I choose to believe no-one’s word in this as there is no evidence either way

That doesn't really fit with your pronouncement that "he hasn't been violent to his ex" Jabberwocky.

Not having been charged and convicted of a crime doesn't mean anything in a domestic abuse context, as many people won't go to the police at the time. You are right, we don't know for sure either way without seeing evidence for ourselves. But he has been to court, and a court has clearly accepted some evidence hence why he had his access supervised and then removed.

Not sure your argument is quite as rational as you think.

Longlongsummer · 15/09/2019 18:29

Overnight access from zero contact and at the very least high conflict is a very aggressive move that shows me that your son is not thinking of what is best for his kids.

It seems to be about control.

Longlongsummer · 15/09/2019 18:31

Also, even without the is it DV or not - this father is clearly thinking of his own needs first.

Where is the maintenance?

Where is the willingness to work with the courts as the supervised access was withdrawn? This will have been witnessed by a third party.

BrendasUmbrella · 15/09/2019 18:31

If you’re willing to believe a man can be violent you have to equally believe a woman can lie.

The courts understand that. That's why these things don't get settled on claims. There are probably police reports, social services reports, possibly hospital records. There are plenty of women posting on these boards who have been distraught that they have to allow an abusive ex into their children's lives because they never reported him and have no proof of the abuse.

slipperywhensparticus · 15/09/2019 18:34

He hasnt even got supervised access he isnt going to get overnight at the next court hearing

He needs a job and you need to open your eyes to what he is doing it is hard to lose supervised contact as for the most part its very dad based in the courts one chap took kinder eggs in for a snack for an under three accordingly the contact centre said dad bought appropriate snacks (the toys are not suitable for under threes)

Another chap persistently took in cows milk for his lactose intolerant child this was a "mistake" despite being told weekly that he is intolerant he still managed to get unsupervised contact the kid is still subjected to him giving milk products

The bar is set very low

CandyLeBonBon · 15/09/2019 18:35

There seem to be a lot of holes in your son's information op. You do need to get to the truth of the matter and as a pp said you have bigger issues than being ashamed of your 38 y/o son in a deadens job living at home with you.

CIareIsland · 15/09/2019 18:44

Don’t ask your DS for the court papers - he will censor them.

Ask the DM of your DGC.

Interesting that he goes through loads of GF in short term relationships. Why do you think this is?

I think you should aim to keep him at home as if you ask him to leave he will target his next vulnerable victim so that he can cocklodge. Save another woman from the horror of this man and keep him home with you.

I find it really sad that you have zero interest in your DGC. What a great loss to you. Or maybe not?

What was your DS upbringing like? Is your DH is father?

Original poster

tumblelord · 15/09/2019 18:50

He's asking for every other weekend with the oldest like every dad should have as a minimum. He'd have to build up to that as he hasn't met the youngest.

If I asked him to move out now he wouldn't be able to. He just doesn't have the income or the documents to rent somewhere. If he gets a job he'll have his own bills to pay, food, legal fees, maintenance and then he might not be seen as being able to afford somewhere to rent so might not get a 2 bedroom which would be the end of even the smallest chance of overnight contact. So do I say you need to find a job and move out 2 months after court ends? Is that realistic?

OP posts:

VolcanionSteamArtillery · 15/09/2019 18:54

More than realistic, but pointless.

In the end are you really going to jeopardise your relationship with your son if he doesn't move?

So why should he? What incentive is there for him to do so?

And therefore whats the point? Your primary relationship is him, you need to keep supporting him to sustain that relationship. What are you hoping to achieve?

Islandermum · 15/09/2019 18:55

He's asking for every other weekend with the oldest like every dad should have as a minimum. He'd have to build up to that as he hasn't met the youngest.

Well no, not a father who has abused his children. I am genuinely concerned about your collusion in this situation. You have been brainwashed. The most important thing for you to do for your ds is to identify whether or not he is an abuser (very very likely) and give him an ultimatum.

If he has abused his ex and children, he is literally a criminal. Take this seriously. Would you continue to house him if he was committing other crimes? Absolutely awful.

Haffiana · 15/09/2019 18:55

OP, do you think that a man who has been violent to his child should have access 'like every dad'?

Thereblegeopart · 15/09/2019 18:57

Still not thinking of your dgc. Disgraceful.

Your son is an abusive, violent thug. Even the court of law can see that.

babba2014 · 15/09/2019 19:04

This seems like an awful situation to be in but you have come here to ask for practical advice so there is hope.
Do as others have said as in tell him to find a job that pays well rather than being self employed as right now he is not in the correct place to be self employed unless he ups his hours and doubles his income from it.
3 months and that's it. If he doesn't then he's out. Tell him you will not keep him after 3 months if he doesn't find a job with a proper income.
Also tell him you will be taking x amount of money as rent if he continues to stay even with the new job.
Some people just need a push and as his mother you have a lot of power to do that and get him to sort his life out. Pray for him to find his feet and be there for his children.

With the mother of the grandchildren, meet up with her. First tell her, the reason why I enables his behaviour was because he is my flesh and blood and I just couldn't fathom he would cross boundaries. After talking to other people, I've opened my eyes and realised he could be an awful person and I want to get to the bottom of this. How have I changed? I've told him to get a job by this date and if he doesn't then he will not be staying with me anymore. If he does, he will need to pay me rent and learn how to be towards his children without taking you to court over and over again.

Original poster

tumblelord · 15/09/2019 19:05

Can we please be clear that my son has not been convicted of any crime, has no history of violence and it has not been proven that the allegations are true

OP posts:

iklboo · 15/09/2019 19:06

Because nowhere in the OPs statements does it say he was charged or tried or convicted of such a thing

Neither was my ex because I didn't go to the police or press charges. Still happened though. Or did I make it all up?

Original poster

tumblelord · 15/09/2019 19:08

@babba2014 Thank you for the advice. I doubt my son's ex would agree to meet with me but it is something to consider.

OP posts:

VolcanionSteamArtillery · 15/09/2019 19:10

@tumblelord

There really is no point in you doing anything. Your primary interest is maintaining a relationship with your son. It is not in making him into a better human being or trying to see you grandchildren. Giving him a deadline to move put will probably make him angry, and you really don't want that do you. So just keep ploding along as you are, stop trying to turn him into the ideal son. He isnt that.

blackcat86 · 15/09/2019 19:13

Could you go back to her and answer her question? Why do you enable this behaviour? - because I didn't want to believe it could be true, because he's still the baby I raise and I hoped would be a good man, because i didnt understand that what he was doing was so detrimental. Now I see that self employment is a way to avoid child maintenance and that something very serious must have happened for contact to be revoked.

Answer her question and seek counselling for yourself because the blinkers you have for your son as unhealthy. Those children are your grandchildren regardless of you not seeing them.

Wrongdissection · 15/09/2019 19:20

Does your son intimidate you OP? Are you frightened of him?

Original poster

tumblelord · 15/09/2019 19:20

@blackcat86 Would anyone listen after all this time?

OP posts:

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