I'm ashamed of my adult DS!!!

[tumblelord]

My son is 38 and still lives at home with me and DH. He has DS5 and DD2 who he doesn't see despite spending 14k on legal fees to go through the courts. He works as a self-employed gardener so sometimes works 3-4 days a week and sometimes had no work for few weeks. He does give me a bit of board money but only a small amount because legal fees take a lot of his money. He flits from one girl to another after splitting up with his kids mum 3 years ago. I'm petrified of having another grandchild that I don't see.

He does have some good points. He buys his own food and pays his own personal bills. He is very popular and has lots of friends. He doesn't drink or take drugs so that isn't the cause of his behaviour. He can be very helpful with things around the house. He does all of the DIY and gardening and looks after the animals. He had a really hard time during court proceedings and his ex made up a lot of allegations but he stays positive about seeing his kids in the future.

I recently caught up with an old friend and I was ashamed when we were talking about our families. What can I do?

hysterical DV brigade
#not all men
Fuck off Jaberwanky

His poor ex. He abused her so badly that he has never been allowed to see his d's? He pays no maintenance? So his ex is bringing up his dc with no contribution from him? What a lazy lying abusive are.

You need to get your head out of the sand about what your d's has do everything. Get him to move out, stop harassing his ex, get a job, support his dc.

Could you talk to her? Would she see you? Say how sorry you are, ask for her story? You might be able to see the dc.

He's 39, OP, and you're still there managing his life like he's 13 to 'get him out of this rut'. He's been enabled and continues to be enabled by you he doesn't even pay rent or pay for his kids! That's pathetic. I've known 18-year-olds, including my own daughter, who were/are more mature and switched on and responsible.

Dear god, he buys his own food and pays his own personal bills, let's just give him a medal, shall we?

What can I realistically do? Say "you need to move out on X date"? Give him chance to retrain? Tell him to drop the court and forget the children? Tell him to get therapy?

He hasn’t been violent to his ex. Who the fuck are you to wade into someone else’s story with a pronouncement like that, Jabbercocky?!

The only message you have agreed with is one that no other posters agree with! You need to understand that your son can lie and he must have done something awful for a court to say he can't see his dc.

It has been on my mind that if he does end up with overnight access (unlikely at the moment) that will mean us having the children for the forseeable.

'Us'?? So despite alleging that he wants access, what he wants is for you to do the actual childcare. Why isn't your son trying to make his own home where he can have his children to stay?

The gardening came when he came to live here permanently again and wanted to be self-employed.

He wanted to be self-employed? This is him attempting to avoid paying child maintenance. You are helping him not pay for the upkeep of his children. A father who wanted to support his children would make sure he could pay for them.

I am sorry, but your son is a bad 'un. You need to open your eyes and whilst you can carry on loving him, you should not be facilitating the problems he is causing his ex family.

@bookwormsforever She tried to talk to me a long time ago but I didn't believe her. When I tried to talk to her again she said she'd talk to me as long as I answered "Why do you enable this behaviour?" and I didn't have an answer so she wouldn't talk to me. This was around a year ago. Sadly I think that bridge is burnt now.

@Jabbercocky

I could run with your approacj if he hadn't don't every single deliberate deadbeat dad action. Hes already had (and lost) supervised access. Kept his parents out of anything that might have revealed the truth (courts will usually look to relatives to supervise contact, interesting that hasnt happened in this case?) Dumped his job so he doesnt pay maintenance and lives at mums so ex cant go for a variation order/keeps living expenses to a minimum

Interesting the only personal OP feels is understanding her is the one person who is also prepared to believe its all false...

Why didn't you have an answer for her? Maybe if you apologise unreservedly she may listen to you.

. You sound as bad as he is. You’ve no business being ashamed of him after your last update, the apple clearly hasn’t fallen far from the tree.

Mine paid some of their personal bills when they were sixteen. One joined the Navy at 18 and was living off her own back and many of her fellow sailors were, too, training for careers. A friend's 19-year-old son won a scholarship to a military school at 16 and is now well into a great military career and combining his university studies with it, getting paid.

@Jabbercocky

He previously had supervised contact which was then removed. This happened because another person, not his ex, witnessed abusive behaviour. What do you not understand about that?

Too many women put up with abusive behaviour but end a relationship when that abuse crosses over to children. Considered that perhaps that's why abuse comes out at the stage it does?

Thinking is free, you should try it.

And OP, you should face facts. Stop baby-ing this grown man, you are not helping him.

Oh blimey, OP, his ex told you he was violent and you didn't believe her?

To answer a small part of your OP, he needs to get a full time job and not faff around doing gardens. Unless he's a fantastic gardener and you live in a wealthy area, he won't earn enough (as you've clearly shown) to support himself.

@tumblelord

Ive said this before and ill say it again. What do you want

You know the truth. You know he's a shit. You are enabling. Do you want to stop? Then yes you have to start parenting him properly, you have to chuck him out and tell him to stand on his own two feet.

If you are looking for contact with your Grandchildren I can promise you it wont happen while you are financial supporting your DS. But yes i think you probably have blown that one now.

This thread is going to be purgatory. Because other than Jabarwocky noone in there right mind would believe you DS is innocent. And everyone is going to tell you that.

I’d be concerned about the kids welfare first and foremost. The courts are there for a reason, if there is no access there is a reason. These are your grandkids and she is their mother. Time to start thinking of Them.

You can do that by not backing up your son. He’s an adult. He should be paying maintenance. Those kids are poor and struggling. It’s the least he could do. Say that to him loud and clear and get him to move out and stop enabling him.

If the mother is to be believed, and there is no reason at present not to believe her, then you are complicit in DV by backing up your son blindly.

Sorry, but this raised too many questions for me, I need to pick it apart a bit.

"When he was with his ex he had a job that meant working away a lot so he has always used our home as his "base". The gardening came when he came to live here permanently again and wanted to be self-employed."

When you say that he used your home as a base, does this mean his working-away job was near to you? In what way were you a base, and how much of his not-working-away time was spent with his wife and children? Did he actually live with them at all?

Also 'working away' can cover a lot of scenarios - everything from M-F in one city then home at the weekends, through 2 weeks on/2 weeks off on an oil rig, to several months abroad at a time; and lots of variations in-between. What sort of pattern are we actually talking about here?

Why did he 'want to be self-employed' (particularly when it clearly isn't lucrative)? Did he plan some sort of self-employment that didn't work out and he fell back on the gardening as a temporary measure? Did he have problems with his employers? Does he have attitude problems with his employers (as in doesn't like working for someone as he doesn't like being told what to do)?

By all means, choose not to answer these questions, there's no need for you to do so. I've posted them because this is the questions generated in my mind, prompted by the statement you made. I suspect they're the sort of questions that you might have been anticipating from your old friend when you met up , and this may be what is causing your sense of shame - that you don't know the answers (or maybe that you do and are unhappy with them ).

@VolcanionSteamArtillery I want realistic advice. Do I get him a deadline? If I asked him to leave now he'd have nowhere to go and no way of renting somewhere on his income. Do I give him chance to find a job first?

@HeadintheiClouds
“He hasn’t been violent to his ex. Who the fuck are you to wade into someone else’s story with a pronouncement like that, Jabbercocky?!”

Because nowhere in the OPs statements does it say he was charged or tried or convicted of such a thing. That being the case then it’s one person’s word against another. You choose to believe the woman’s word - because you are clearly prejudiced. I choose to believe no-one’s word in this as there is no evidence either way - because I am a rationalist who believes innocent until PROVEN guilty.

Or I could adopt the apparent common view here that all men are abusers and no woman ever lied simply because it fits a comfortable narrative that lets me see the World as simple and straightforward and not complex, nuanced and challenging to always understand.

I want realistic advice. Do I get him a deadline? If I asked him to leave now he'd have nowhere to go and no way of renting somewhere on his income. Do I give him chance to find a job first?

No, it must be a deadline. But you MUST keep him to it. Because you are his mother and he has hoodwinked you, and he will genuinely, utterly believe that he can go on hoodwinking you. Therefore he won't do anything at all to change his circumstances but will fully expect that a few pleas and tears will make you give in. You WILL have to put his stuff in bags on the street on deadline day.

You cant get realistic advice without knowing what your aims are.

If your purely interested in keeping your DS happy you keep doing what your doing. And love your DS. Some people can look themselves in the mirror after doing this, i couldnt.

If your interested in trying to get him to the best possible version of himself, then yes you give him a month to find a proper job and place to live.

If you what a cat in hells chance if ever seeing your grandchildren again you chuck him out yesterday, face up to what hes done and jump through every damn hoop his ex sets you to see those kids. Although i really do think that bird has probably flown.

But the first stage is working out what you want out of it and what your most important relationship is here.

Do I wait until after the next court hearing so that it doesn't jeopardise his very slim chance for overnight access? Will potentially getting no contact, being devastated and then being asked to leave be too cruel

I would give him three months to find a full time job or ask him to leave.I would also want to see evidence from the court proceedings. I would contact the ex and apologise and ask for her version of events. I would then depending on what I had learnt offer to help your son only if he started paying for his children. If after discussions you think he may be guilty of violence he should agree to start therapy and drop court procedings until a time is reached when he can admit his guilt and feel genuine remorse. Your duty is to your grandchildren which means supporting the ex wife if your son is guilty.

So why DO you enable this behaviour op? And what was it about your conversation with the ex did you not believe?