I'm ashamed of my adult DS!!!

[tumblelord]

My son is 38 and still lives at home with me and DH. He has DS5 and DD2 who he doesn't see despite spending 14k on legal fees to go through the courts. He works as a self-employed gardener so sometimes works 3-4 days a week and sometimes had no work for few weeks. He does give me a bit of board money but only a small amount because legal fees take a lot of his money. He flits from one girl to another after splitting up with his kids mum 3 years ago. I'm petrified of having another grandchild that I don't see.

He does have some good points. He buys his own food and pays his own personal bills. He is very popular and has lots of friends. He doesn't drink or take drugs so that isn't the cause of his behaviour. He can be very helpful with things around the house. He does all of the DIY and gardening and looks after the animals. He had a really hard time during court proceedings and his ex made up a lot of allegations but he stays positive about seeing his kids in the future.

I recently caught up with an old friend and I was ashamed when we were talking about our families. What can I do?

The allegations of violence are a massive red flag, the fact that the courts stopped supervised access means there must have been something serious going on.

I can see why a man will still want to see his kids, his motivation could be genuine love for his kids and wanting to have a relationship with them but also a way to get at the ex. A man can still love his kids but be an arsehole.

The rest I would not be ashamed at, has he ever lived away from home?

He may be popular and he may have spent £14k on legal fees; but I imagine that if he is self employed and living with you, and if work is so sporadic - then he’s not paying child maintenance.

Supervised contact is unlikely to have been stopped because of a baseless accusation.

Your son is in a rut if his own making. If work is sporadic then there is no reason why he couldn’t retrain and get a better paid job, pay off his legal fees and move out of your house.

@gingerkittykat but can you really love your kid if it is alleged that you harmed them?
That's not love, that's control.

Harsh words but I am taking them on board. I don't expect that I have the full story but I do believe my son that his ex lies to prevent contact.

@Islandermum Thank you for the advice. It has been on my mind that if he does end up with overnight access (unlikely at the moment) that will mean us having the children for the forseeable. I wouldn't mind in the short term but I selfishly feel that I don't want that at my time of life in the long term.

I would be wary that his ex is lying. Courts don't usually stop contact unless for very good reasons. Sounds a bit like he's trying to control her and the kids via legal channels.

Why have you allowed him to stay with you until this age? Has he never lived away from home?

@Ginger1982 When he was with his ex he had a job that meant working away a lot so he has always used our home as his "base". The gardening came when he came to live here permanently again and wanted to be self-employed.

Has he paid £14K legal fees before or after paying maintenance?

Supervised access means there was a witness to his behaviour.

your son is lying to you. He’s abused his partner and child. That will be hard for you to come to terms with I’m sure. I feel very sorry for you. You need to tell him to get a full time job and move out.

I dont think there is anything anyone can say to help you.

You see a loving son and father and a wicked ex.

We see a man who clearly has fone something pretty horrific. Who now works cash in hand part time to prevent paying mainstainance.

You can really share your DS' achievements because most people will see through them as quickly as we have. Hes not stuck in a rut, hes living comfortably off you.

What follows will now be a free for all of people saying the above, albeit in a variety of different words. I really hope noone gives any advice on how to get back visitation because the kids are better off without them in their lives. Best they now have the space to heal.

Love your son. You cant help that and thete isnt much more you can do

Supervised access means things got very serious and could be proved.

Supervised access being revoked means it was proved that even during access his behaviour continued.

Loving someone as a mother doesn't mean turning a blind eye. It's sad that you don't see your grandchildren but at the same time you'd clearly believe your son over them so they wouldn't be safe with you.

Excuse the typos
You can't really share your DS' achievements because most people will see through them as quickly as we have

Court have a very clear process. It starts with an application for contact, which I assume your son made. Then there is a hearing which is a summary of the case followed by a CAFCASS or SS report. This doesn't cost 14k. So if after this he received supervised access the allegations must have been evidenced and a view taken that he was a danger to the children.

I echo what everyone says, courts are extremely pro fathers having contact unless he is perceived as dangerous. He must have screwed up to have had supervised contact withdrawn. I assume contact centre backed up her allegations. They had to be incidents of him being threatening or aggressive

If he is going back to court then he is most likely appealing which will be costly and possibly against legal advice. All of this will be explained in court papers and solicitors letters. Ask him to see them.

His upset doesn't equate to the facts. I know of one violent father who doesnt have access but he sobs in courts and to all his friends. They are real tears, but the tears are only for himself.

If you want him to sort himself out then facing up to what he has done is vital. Has he been put on anger management courses? Did he have a troubled youth?

Also re work, has he every worked for someone else for a reasonable timeframe?

At 38 hd is very unlikely to change and I would encourage you to get him to empathise with his ex and to take responsibility. Ask him "what could you have done so that you were allowed to continue with supervised access?"

Don't let him blame the Ex, she must be going through hell trying to raise 2 small children and fight to keep them safe.

So he had a proper job and worked away a lot when with family. Now he jacked that in to do gardening (cash in hand) so what does that tell you. It tells me that he will not have to pay maintenance because he is now dodging the tax man, the courts and his responsibilities. You are enabling this. I am sorry but you are being left in the dark as to the truth of his relationship with his ex and his children.

If access was supervised it means that his behaviour was witnessed by a third party and deemed abusive in order for that contact (presumably court ordered) to be changed or stopped. It’s very clear here that your son is lying. I don’t really know where to start with advising if you won’t take that on board.

Could you offer to support him in going to uni/some kind of business course?

Yes I'm sorry but courts don't just believe what mothers say, they demand proof. And even if there is quite a lot of proof, often they still push for some kind of contact for the father, so there must be more to this than he is telling you.

It is very easy for any partner to a) lie and b) lie that the other one is lying (this goes for the PP who is so certain her cousin's "loony wife" has made up lies), the reality is no one knows what goes on behind closed doors. The courts know this, so they only make decisions upon evidence. And they very much push for some kind of access unless there is absolutely proof positive that there is serious danger.

I also don't think the ex would be able to refuse to allow your DH in to a hearing - did he hear that directly from her, or from your son?

@Techway It's cost so much and is ongoing because they have a hearing then try something different over and over again. No anger management has been ordered and no history of that type of behaviour. It seems I will have to ask him if I can see the court papers. I will be more than ashamed if I find out that he has lied to me! But where would I go from there?

I second the stance of pp's that the fact he has previously had supervised contact is a HUGE red flag. These are absolutely not false allegations as they will have been supported by an often impartial third party at a contact centre.

I would be advising him, if he was my son, to stop the court case, get his full time job back and contribute to child support. This is the only way he can be a decent person and give his children a good life (god bless them, I bet it has been absolutely horrible for them). If he cared at all, he would have done this already. He is dodging child maintenance and I feel terribly sorry for his ex.

This will be hard to come to terms with, I'm so sorry that your son has done this. Tough love is seriously needed right now.

You should be ashamed of yourself, not just him. You brought up a lazy, selfish manchild and continue to enable him to be a total loser and believe him over the heads of your own grandchildren. He's almost 40 years old and still loafing at home with Ma washing his socks and doing a bit of self-employed work to dodge out of supporting his kids. What a reject.

He was violent to a two year old baby boy

Please tumblelord look at this from a position of him not being your son. As if someone else was telling you about them.
I’m sure you think the ex is a loon and capable of this but why? Why do you you think this? I bet he has been feeding you how awful she is for years. Abusers do this. Undermining and the victim changing the narrative so that they are the victim.
Jacking in his job to do cash in hand, now she can’t get anything and I bet he gets legal aid.
She is not calling the shots. Social services are now making the choices regarding the children’s well-being and safety.
You should talk to her. Un biased. Maybe if you got rid of him you could see your grandchildren.

He hasn’t been violent to his ex. His ex has made an allegation of violence during court proceedings. BIG. DIFFERENCE.
If you’re willing to believe a man can be violent you have to equally believe a woman can lie. Nowhere do the details given state that he was charged or convicted of such things - or do we believe an accusation is good enough these days, because that’s what’s called a witch-hunt and I would have thought that a womens’ board might be more sensitive to that kind of prejudice?

I’m terms of shame, I think the OP is ashamed the her son doesn’t have his life more together at 38. I sympathise with such an emotion: a mix of frustration, anger and disappointment that a loved one just can’t sort their sh!t out and you have to be there like a constant safety net. It’s boring and wearisome.

And before the hysterical DV brigade jump on my first comment, I have seen at first hand, both men and women make outrageous exaggerations and spout unforgivable lies in custody/divorce proceedings and the way courts deal with them is truly shocking - fairness and rules of evidence just don’t seem to apply. What I have seen has made me lose any kind of faith in the court system and I now don’t immediately believe an accuser or a respondent whether or not there is a conviction.

@Jabbercocky Thank you for understanding. All I wanted was advice on how to get my son out of this rut.

You really need to stop and ask yourself what you want.

Yes if you go through the court documents your going to read a lot that does match with your view of your son.

What are you going to think then?

Are you going to believe its a big conspiracy set up be his awful ex or are you looking to address what is staring you in the face?

You dont need the court documents for that. You could Chuck him out and tell him he needs to stand on his own two feet.

Seriously when i asked you what you want from this thread you said you wanted to get him out from the rut hes in. But right now hes exactly where he wants to be, continuing to harass his ex through the court facillitated by you financing his living expenses. You are facilitating ongoing abuse.

Im not sure you even know what you want or have realistically thought through the consequences. I dont think he would change anything atm, he's on easy street

You’ve had plenty of good advice already. Don’t be fooled just because he’s your son x