Son wants nothing to do with me!

[Wilf1975]

I was married to my first husband, we had a son & daughter together. My husband was mentally, physically & emotionally abusive to the three of us. I eventually found the strength to leave him when my son was 8 and my daughter was 6.
Six months of him leaving my husband took an overdose and ended up in a vegetative state in a nursing home for four years until he died in 2013.
The three of us were always close until my son started going out with his girlfriend 3 years ago. He walked out 2 years ago and I have not really seen him. I have tried everything to try and be included in his life but he doesn’t want that. He totally despises me and blames me for his childhood. My daughter told me yesterday he is getting married in February and will not be inviting me.
I miss him so much, can’t help but think there is something wrong with me. I have a rubbish relationship with my own mum and didn’t want to end up like that.
I feel tired, the people close to me treat me like rubbish and I don’t think I deserve this. It is just one thing after another, I just want some peace and be a family. It feels like I am always picking up after other people and have no say in things. I feel so sad..........

I think she's been given some good help. There's been a range of suggestions - and good ones too.
Is her son abusing her?
Does she need help herself?
She did her best in difficult circumstances.
But perhaps her son has a different perspective that would do well to be aired out?
Respect him and give him space to grow.

I did note the fact that OP says his new girlfriend has MH problems and to be fair that flagged up on my radar as a negative against the OP....

Several things did actually...

I think it is good that you are sticking up for her but at the same time deep and painful issues often have deep and painful thinking needing doing and it is never harmful to question oneself is it, especially when something really important is on the table. If she has contributed towards her son's harm then acknowledging that can only be a positive thing to move the situation on.

No it was an estimate. Was It a good estimate?
OPs thread has become part projection fodder
And now apparently an “interesting read” for others
Anyone would think there wasn’t a real person asking for help behind it all

This ^ Some of the comments to the OP display an astonishing lack of empathy and victim blaming.

No it was an estimate. Was It a good estimate?

i don't know. I haven't counted either.

Anyone would think there wasn’t a real person asking for help behind it all

If you think I've given bad advice then by all means say so.

I genuinely think that the OP needs to give him space and that she needs to listen to him and not talk about herself if she gets the chance to do so.

It's not projection, it's advice from experience with a bit of context.

She is clearly saddened by this current situation with her son. Perhaps I mistakenly read it that she wants to improve/resolve it when others have, and I should have, read that she wants sympathy for the fact she is in it.

What do you think she should do?

OP, I'm so sorry for you, it must be heartbreaking. Ultimately, all you can do now is reflect on what he has told you and accused you off and try to see if it might be more about you as a person than the choices you've made. You can't erase the past, but you can see if there are things you can do from now on that could allow you ds to come back to you when he is ready. Having a child can be the trigger.

You say you have issue with a number of other people. This means either you are very unlucky at the moment, which is poosible, in which case, try to let it all pass you by until things get better, or it might be that you are a ting/behaving in a way that alienates people but you are not aware of it.

You will need to consider whether there could be some truth in the latter. Take time to reflect on what triggers people becoming unpleasant, what they accusé you off and try to see how you would react in their position. Maybe consider some counselling.

Back to your son, give him time. You havent lost him forever, but you do need to focus your energy on understanding rather than on feeling hard done by so that you can move forward.

This is my last post as I don’t need people telling me that I am selfish for staying with my husband. I wish the first time that he used physical violence (when my son was 4 months old) that I had left. The abuse started well before then and eroded away at me as a person before the violence. All three of us lived on eggshells not knowing what would provoke him and what would happen. Some of the comments on this post have no understanding for the complexity of being in an abusive relationship for all members. I don’t want sympathy and definitely not a ‘victim ‘. I stood up to my husband in court, I obtained a non-molestation order and occupation order. CAFCASS were involved and I was given full residency. There was never any mention that I was abusive. None of these comments can make me feel anymore guilty of the rubbish childhood my children had. I have always supported them in everything they have done and repeatedly told them how proud I am of how they have turned out taking into account their really difficult childhood. I never abused my children but I did leave them in a home with an abusive parent and that is unforgivable. There are no excuses.....
I never talk about how I feel about what happened, I have sought counselling for all 3 of us. The post was me acknowledging how I feel about what has happened I definitely don’t go on and on about myself to my children. They will always come first.
I have done everything he has asked and have no contact because that is what he wants. I have tried so many times to listen to him but he just clams up and starts ranting. I know how his dad treated him was appalling and if I could take it away I would but life isn’t that simple. My son introduced his girlfriend as having borderline personality disorder and uses cannabis to self medicate. I don’t know her, and he has made his choice it’s his life. I have always said as long as they are both happy in their lives that’s all that matters to me.
I find it really hard not knowing that he is okay, all I wanted was an occasional text or phone call so I know how he is. I have respected his decision and I am just trying to find some way of coping with this situation. Some of these posts have been very harsh, somebody put that I stayed with my husband till his death, I most certainly did not. He had severe brain damage could not talk, eat and was bed bound in a nursing home. I attempted to take control of the situation but ultimately he made it all about him. I tried to get counselling for my son after his dad’s death but he just wasn’t ready and found it too upsetting.

If you think I've given bad advice then by all means say so - but posters have said so.

You've given bad advice @OhHimAgain You've given your opinion based on your contempt for the OP, your need to punish her. Its one of the worst threads I've ever seen on MN. You got in first and set the tone, you accused the OP of abusing her children - then it went from the OP having escaped an abusive marriage to the OP being the perpetrator.

A person who is a victim of abuse staying in a relationship because they can't see a way out, but then getting out as soon as they can, is not an abuser.

The OP was not the abuser. The OP is not your mother.

@OhHimAgain has been pretty gentle with the OP. The tone is all too familiar to those of us who learned horribly young, that no one was coming to help. Not even the ‘good parent’. It’s not victim blaming to point out that the son will be damaged by that. And you can call it projection, but there’s a recognisable script of denying the harm to children in messed up families.
Ultimately, regardless of how powerless you felt, you had choices as an adult. Your children had no options. If you continue to ignore that , you will lose him, permanently.

I agree LaLoba.

Whilst nobody (I hope) is claiming that OP is an abuser, like you are suggesting Dishingout, people are trying to explain how the 'good parent' can be the one who is burdened with the blame because adult children carry the hurt, often for the rest of their lives. This prevents them from moving on and can affect the way they view either parent. Neither parent protected despite the fact that only one abused.

I cannot imagine how difficult things were for the OP but to suggest that the OP had no choice is almost going against the grain of feminism because it implies that the woman is always helpless, ultimately vulnerable and incapable of making good decisions for herself and her children.

We all make mistakes. None of us are perfect parents. I understand that OP has deep regrets and it's tragic that she is being punished like this. I suppose it depends on which side of the fence you're sat on.

All I know, from my childhood experiences is that if ANY man, father of my children or not, EVER laid a finger or shouted abusively at my child, I would make sure they were gone. But, I am one of those people who fell victim to an abusive father and nobody removed me from the situation and ever made me feel safe.

I think the thread has been balanced. Objective? Not so much, but then we all have our own burdens and offering the OP an insight into how her son 'may' feel might help her to build bridges. I hope that's the case because I cannot imagine the pain of one of my children cutting me out of their life.

What I mean by my 1st paragraph is that in hindsight it is so easy to see when I could/should have left but was deep in the abuse cycle, so was unable to, unaware, disempowered. Now with distance of time, my blood boils thinking of a million difference scenarios that would have changed the course of events !

We can't live in the past, but it doesn't mean we don't wish things were different, or we knew then what we know now.

You keep saying there was absolutely no way you COULD have left but what your son needs to here is "son I wish I ran away with you guys in the middle of the night, sat at the police station X whatever" you feel in hindsight. Listen to him. Hear him. Because you keep responding back about your pain & this with all due respect is not about your pain.

I say this because you say you want your son in your life, so it's not easy to hear. But I understand why he can't communicate with you... your pain is all over the pages but we have very little understanding about how your children feel/have processed this.

When he rants, what does he SAY ?

@TitanTanya44

I cannot imagine how difficult things were for the OP but to suggest that the OP had no choice is almost going against the grain of feminism because it implies that the woman is always helpless, ultimately vulnerable and incapable of making good decisions for herself and her children.

This was said much more succinctly, this is what I meant.

I can't imagine how damaging this thread is for those trying to leave abusive relationships, because what people are saying is that basically it doesn't matter if you do leave. It was always your fault, and it always will be.

No, @DishingOutDone, not one person is saying that. Once the leaving is done, that isn’t the end of parenting, and adults have to take responsibility for their children, however unwittingly and understandably they may have let them down. The worst kind of victim blaming in my book is the one where the child who had no choices, no hope of protection, is expected to shut up and put up about what that’s done to them.

@DishingOutDone I respectfully disagree. Have been there myself, was staying in a women's/children's refuge until recently so have some experience & newfound friends in this situation.

Obviously it matters whether you leave because your kids are going to be traumatised if you stay. Nobody is telling the OP the abuse was her fault, or that she should have left him sooner. More that now with understanding & hindsight we would all live our lives a little differently, no ? That is not victim blaming, but empowering IMO

I came to say what laloba put far more eloquently than I could, in defence of ohHim.

It’s a normal, human reaction to offer everything you have done right as a defence for the mistakes you’ve made. But that’s worse than not saying anything at all. The child in you still needs to offload those mistakes, not to be made to feel they have to forgive, or keep quiet because the parent feels they have already compensated for the bad stuff. It’s dismissive, intentional or not.

As to the silence mixed with lashing out, I can understand the behaviour even if I don’t know his reasons. You keep quiet because it’s not worth the stress until you reach boiling point. And when you’re in that place, it only takes the tiniest thing to see red. So the parent is met with a rant when in their eyes they’ve made a harmless comment.

Plus regardless of what specifically is upsetting him, I think his age/ partner makes it a natural progression. It’s not necessarily observing other ways of life that can be an eye opener, but when you first get close enough to confide in someone. Not only because it opens it back up, but an outsiders reaction, even if they don’t say a word.

What worries me here is how polarised the sides are, It always seems impossible for the parent to see the adult child's POV because they feel under attack and want to express how often they tried, and all the things they did do. So the child feels ignored, unheard. But equally, the adult child isn't acknowledging the daily efforts of a lone parent in really challenging circumstances.

They have both had a stressful, shitty past. Neither of them caused it. Both of them deserve to be heard and to have their feelings acknowledged. But it seems to be forever, 'But what about me?'

I agree with what milliefiori said.

However, as the parent, who is older and has more social context to understand or frame her past in, OP needs to listen to her son. Maybe there can eventually be a time where they both hear each other. But first and foremost, she must be open to hearing from her son, without deflecting or minimising, or simply replying that she’s a victim too. That’s not helpful.

To have any chance of getting a relationship with her son going again, she needs to acknowledge his trauma and his hurt. If she can’t do that without trying to justify her actions and saying she too is a victim, they will not move forward.

millie fair point, but it’s unlike any other adult relationship. The child might now be an adult but it’s their younger self that needs to be acknowledged. The younger self that has an absolute right to have their feelings acknowledged above and beyond the parents needs. And whether your child is 5 or 75, the desire to put them first in any debate as to which of you is most important should be natural and unthinking.

Plus, I don’t think parents should do anything in order to have their efforts recognised by their children, it’s done for their well being/ benefit not your future validation. (Not that I’m saying the op is or isn’t doing any of the above, more a general musing as to who should be the priority)

I can't imagine how damaging this thread is for those trying to leave abusive relationships, because what people are saying is that basically it doesn't matter if you do leave. It was always your fault, and it always will be.

Not one person has said that.

You've said my advice is poor, yet it's fairly standard on here and elsewhere, and you haven't been able to say why it's bad advice.

What you mean is that you don't like the fact I haven't centred the OP in my responses.

The child might now be an adult but it’s their younger self that needs to be acknowledged

Yes.

The other thing is that the adult child will quite often reach an understanding of their parent's position as part of the healing process.

The parent often finds it too emotionally difficult to do that and then the expectation is placed on the adult child to just 'get over it'.

The biggest difference here is that the parent can remember a time before the abuse, when their life didn't look like that. For many children of those environments, it's all they've ever known - there's nothing to return to. It is not just something they experienced but it's literally part of who they are.

Exactly, the child has no marker to return to, and no way to move forwards.

I can't imagine how damaging this thread is for those trying to leave abusive relationships, because what people are saying is that basically it doesn't matter if you do leave. It was always your fault, and it always will be.

I agree, DishingOutDone, some posters may not realise it but this thread is a perfect example of the trope that women who experience DA are in some way to blame, or responsible, or in control of what is happening to them and their children. The truth is they aren't.

I strongly suspect the rift between the OP and her son is linked to the death of his father. I wonder how different the OP's son's attitude would be if this man was still around so that he could have observed him as a young adult. In my experience, children with an abusive parent tend to figure them out by their late teens. And of course the father wouldn't have been privileged with the blamelessness that comes with death.

The op did the best she could at the time. I can understand her son's point of view, he is damaged, but I sympathise with how hurtful it is for her. There isn't anything she can do except 'be there' and always have the door open. I believe they will reconcile eventually but it can't be forced, It's very good that both children are in contact with eachother, that will help.

wow some of the vilest comments on here