Don't know if he is abusive. Head a mess.

[JoannaCuppa]

Hi. I am currently on my first holiday with new DP and my DD. We have been together over a year but don't live together.

I feel really anxious all the time and can't understand what is happening. My DP and I fell for each other very quickly. He seemed literally everything that I ever wanted. But who he is being now, sometimes, just isn't tallying with that.

He is being very quiet, but maintaining nothing is wrong. His tone of voice when talking to both me and DD can sound really harsh and "off".

He is drinking a bottle and a half of wine a night, which is normal for him at weekends and holidays (the only times I see him), but then gets really cross in bed when I ask him to roll over because he is snoring. I have ended up sleeping in my DD's bed with her as I can't get any sleep with him. I have told him but he just keeps drinking.

He is really skint at the moment for reasons beyond his control. I have paid for the holiday, most of the petrol, meals out, and he pays for much less as he physically doesn't have it. Fine. Except he is buying wine every day so he can afford that. I feel he is taking the piss.

My DD has gone from adoring him to feeling a bit scared of him. She is afraid to say anything negative to him because he "looks grumpy". He does have "resting grump face" which he can't help, and his default look is mild fury. However, I obviously can't have my daughter scared. She has ASD and manages really well, but does struggle sometimes. I don't want to blame him for things like his face which he can't control, but nor do I want her scared. So I don't know where the balance lies.

It sounds silly and small, considering he does all the cooking and has looked after me and DD well as I have had a chronic illness flare whilst we are here, but he is so very messy. He cooks and I tidy, but the kitchen looks like a poltergeist has hit it. I don't feel I can say much as he has cooked but it is mad how messy it is. He also insists on eating pretty late but DD needs to eat earlier. He is happy to feed her around the time he used to feed his DDs, about 7, but mine needs her dinner around 6. I keep telling him but it just isn't his default yet.

Oh, and he reversed his car twice into other cars whilst we have been away. Now admittedly the parking sensors glitched and didnt go off, but I have now remembered that he had drunk a bottle.of wine and a third of a 70cl bottle of rum the day before. He didnt drive until the following afternoon. Would he have been clear of alcohol by then or not? I don't really drink so have no idea, though obviously wouldn't have let him drive if he had driven within a few hours of drinking. It just didn't occur to me until afterwards.

I am wondering where the perfect man I met has gone. He isn't tactile at all with me now, hasn't instigated sex as he has been collapsing into bed sozzled.

He maintains he isn't an alcoholic, but I am no longer sure.

I can't think straight because who he is seems so at odds with who he was for a long time. Am I being too picky and critical? Have I lost perspective? He always seems vaguely cross with DD and I and it doesn't feel comfortable.

Sorry for the length. Please help but be gentle. I am really confused. My primary concern is for DD. She can be naughty and her dad is crap at discipline, and I know DP feels annoyed at her attitude sometimes but says little. On the othet hand, she is my DD and has to come first.

OP, I'm really glad you have ended it with this loser. I really think you should learn more about covert narcissism so you are better equipped to spot these losers in the future much earlier on.

They are very different in the way they present to overt narcs but essentially they are the same on the inside, just much more passive aggressive and play the victim more. Everything you describe (mirroring, love bombing, gaslighting, projecting etc) is classic narc abuse tactics. All the narcs I have dated (covert and overt) have been functioning alcoholics and this coupled with the other abuse tactics you have described make me certain he is one. You could say what's the point in figuring it out as you have ended it anyway but I think it's always good to reevaluate why you tolerated what you did in the relationship and learn to spot these behaviours much quicker.

You ask why he didnt use the breakup as an oppertunity to change and the answer is that narcs have no insight, are incapable of taking responsibility for their actions (or anything for that matter including finances), have no empathy (which can be seen clearly by his justifications in being horrible to your DD) and therefore theres no point trying to figure out his motives because there is no reason other than he doesnt really care to change.

I suspect he doesnt really see his DD's as they are sick of his behaviour and have distanced themselves. At least you dont have any ties to this man other than a cat and abit of furniture so hopefully you can get rid and move in with the rest of your life. You have really dodged a bullet here OP.

The poor cat, please let her be with someone who loves her if you don't. He sounds irresponsible.

OP, good call getting rid of him.

One very early flag is being sponged off by someone.

I've yet to hear of a good relationship where one partner is a tight was, doesn't have money, doesn't pay his way.

This alone was an early flag before I heard of flags. Mean people aren't a good bet.

billy1966 that is a brilliant and simple insight. If someone is so entitled and selfish mean with money and processions then they are also mean with emotions. I am looking back over my life even to people a school who were tight - and yes 30 years late they are clearly wrong ‘uns.

OP you have done well. You added up all of the signs, you listened to your gut, you listened to your DD, you sought opinions and you have acted on it immediately.

He was faking the intense relationship with you before so v difficult for you have seen it any earlier ..... only thing you could look for is the background stuff - broke, LC with adult kids, drinking etc ...... always look behind these snake charmers to see what trail of destruction they have left in their wake....

As Jaffa says he does appear covert. Ex always attributed negative connotations to peoples behaviours so a good example is calling your daughter manipulative. Most people would see a young girl, perhaps feeling a little insecure who just wants attention, focus etc..of course he never attributed any negative emotions to himself.

Another common factor is playing the victim, so no doubt he will tell others that he was abused by you, called a cunt on a regular basis and had to tolerate your daughters bad behaviour, whilst you sat there doing nothing.

Yes, being single is no bad thing, it can be very enjoyable and certainly preferable to a bad relationship.

@Clareisland,
Exactly. Being mean with money takes effort and calculation. Always trying to be one step ahead and getting one over on someone to get out of paying your fair share.

It's VERY easy and quick to spot invariably.
First sign of it...ditch IMO.

Maybe that says more about me than anything else, but once spotted, it killed any interest I would have had in a guy!

Hi, Just a quick update if anyone is around. Still confused and unsure about what to do:

I did end it. And immediately felt overwhelmingly awful, that we hadn't tried everything we could to repair things, and that I shouldn't have been so rash.

He came round to talk and I told him that as far as DD is concerned, we went too fast, too soon for her. That he shouldn't have tried to do any reprimanding for anything, and should have focused on being her friend, letting me do the parenting. That he should have built a friend relationship with her before assuming any parenting duties.

That was my fault as I told him that if she was naughty or rude to him, and I wasnt there, then to tell her. But he has also tried to get her to learn certain things that she isn't ready to learn yet, and I have told him that it isn't his place to decide that. Me and exH will decide that and he just should go along with it.

He told me how his DDs would have taken the things he said, as a joke, and apologised because he said he should have thought how DD would react, not how his DDs would.

I also discussed his tone with her. It is firm but fair. However, I have realised it is very similar to a family member who DD isn't keen on, as they have totally lost their temper in front of DD before (albeit the temper loss was with someone else) but it really scared her. I know DP wouldn't escalate to the level of family member's behaviour, but DD doesn't. So if she hears firm but fair with a hint of annoyance, it triggers her fight or flight thing.

She can manage that tone from me and her dad, as she is used to us and knows it won't escalate like it does with the other family member, but she doesn't know that about DP this early on.

So I have told him to not say anything to her and to let me do it.

He spoke to me about the drinking. He said there is no way he is losing me for wine. That that would be ludicrous, so he will only drink when I say he can and the amount I say he can. I told him he was being silly, I am not his mother. He has slipped back into bad habits of reading a book in the evening and sipping wine as he does so, paying no attention to the amount he is drinking, and so is blithely sipping away. He said he would worry about the amount if the situation was reversed so he wants to address it.

So now, I don't know what to do. I loved him so very much and thought he would be amazing for DD too. He truly is a wonderful person. My heart broke when I dumped him the other day and he left my house for the final time. It was one of the most painful things that has ever happened to me. My heart walked out of thr door with him.

We had come to.similar conclusions about DD. To maybe let her think we are just friends, give her time to get to know him as a friend, and see if she feels more comfortable with him.

But here's where the problem lies; my instincts are still feeling on high alert. And I don't want to feel like that.

It is also complicated further, by the fact that I am friends with someone, who is such a good and lovely man, who makes me feel happy and settled and safe, who has supported me unconditionally throughout this, and I am starting to feel a little more than friendship for him.

Why is life so complicated? I want a simple, settled and happy life.

You life would be simpler and more settled and happier (and your daughter's suddenly would be) if you get shot of him once and for all.

I was with someone who had a similar drink problem to your DP. He could talk a good talk but it was just blahblah. He could keep it under control for a couple of weeks but then he would lapse and we'd have a horrific time.
He has now been done for drink-driving.
They just say what they think you want to hear to get you off their back so they can continue their affair with their greatest love - the drink.

Please just tell this man that you have thought it over again and decided that the relationship is over. You are already having doubts again despite having discussed the issues with him.

daughter's CERTAINLY not suddenly

I can't believe - after reading that post - whether you are still questioning if he is abusive.

Your dd is scared of him.. please please leave him.

Hi op

I won’t say anything about the ‘grump face’. My husband has that too! He can be happy as Larry and look terrifying at the same time lol. We are all used to it and laugh at him, but others people’s kids behave immaculately and cautiously around him. He once didn’t get a promotion because he looked “too shouty”.

But then, it’s not really just your dp’s face is it? You say he’s “harsh” and off with you both. Your daughter is probably more used to his grumpy face than you realise as she adored him regardless...it’s his actions and tone that is now making her wary.

His drinking nightly and the quantity he is drinking is not normal. It’s not healthy. It’s not fair on you or your daughter. It’s impacting on his behaviour and he doesn’t seem inclined to stop. It also makes you question, is that where all his money has gone?

You need a frank discussion with him...but at the same time, I don’t think you can if he’s drunk every evening. I’d be worried that he’d react badly.

This is the standard of relationship you’d be in op if you stay...probably worse if you’re only just over a year in. Ask yourself carefully if it’s what you want? Is it right for your daughter? Is it a safe environment for you both?

He does have "resting grump face" which he can't help, and his default look is mild fury

Sometimes people's habitual facial expression reflects their view of the world/feelings in general.

I think he put his best food forward, put on a bit of an act - as some people do in the early part of a relationship.

I don't think the early part was the real (or let's say, the full him) ... You're seeing what he can be like, or is more habitually like - now.

Maybe he can't keep up being super nice and fake any longer. Maybe he feels his feet are under the table now and he doesn't really have to. Who knows.

So you listened to your gut instinct.
You realised while away that he was being moody and arsey.
You realised while away that he speaks to you and DD quite aggressively.
You realised while away that he had no consideration for you or your DD.
You realised while away that the way he speaks to your DD is not acceptable.
You realised while away that he is probably an alcoholic.
You realised while away that he was making you feel anxious all the time.
You realised while way that your DD is afraid to say anything negative to him because he "looks grumpy"

So you rightly dumped him and then immediately felt overwhelmingly awful
So you followed your gut, which was right.
You stood up for your DD.
You put your DD first.
Then renegaded on it all!??
Wow - you have some serious people pleaser tendancies.
Please look into this.
It's not healthy and you need to be assertive and able to stand by your convictions.

Please end it properly.
Do not get involved with any one else until you resolve some issues with yourself.

It is also complicated further, by the fact that I am friends with someone, who is such a good and lovely man, who makes me feel happy and settled and safe, who has supported me unconditionally throughout this, and I am starting to feel a little more than friendship for him.

Perfect.

Good this miserly, miserable, probably alcohol dependant, scary/intimidating to your daughter (that's fkg huge - your daughter shouldn't have to be around anyway me who makes her scared or uncomfortable) charmer out .. and you're free to investigate the other, more promising sounding, man.

*Kick

*anyone

@MsKhan - I remember well, when life seemed so cut and dried from the outside looking in, too.

Real life is a little more complicated. Yes, he has spoken to DD in a way neither DD or I liked, but I think DD's fear comes from associating him with someone else who IS scary. He speaks to DD in a far more moderate manner than I or exH do, but she knows us so isn't scared. His tone reminds her of someone who does escalate, but he doesn't. So I am wondering if that is why she is scared.

The alcohol thing is a more objectively easy one to judge. He is drinking far too much and, as a PP says, he will amend it for a few weeks and then slip back. He used to be an incredibly high earner, so never had to think of the financial implications. Now he isn't (for reasons unrelated to drinking), but has just carried on in the same vein and has been in denial about the reality of it.

BUT, all this feels so stressful, on the back of three years of hell in which my marriage broke down and I was raped by a "friend" I had gone to visit. To feel like I had finally met the man of my dreams, and then have it result in more stress is more than I can take.

I want my DD to be happy and settled. Not scared of someone who I have brought into her life without her say so. She also worries about the alcohol, and I will not have excessive drinking normalised for her.

Wow - you have some serious people pleaser tendancies

No, it was the reality of losing a man I had loved so very much and knowing that we had not done all we could to save it.

Coupled with a massive feeling of "oh my God, but I loved him so much, and I can't bear the idea of never seeing him again".

Yet, in my heart, I know it has all gone too far and can't be repaired. Who I fell in love with isn't who he has been acting like recently.

More than anything, I want peace and happiness for DD. So he would have been out of her life for the foreseeable anyway.

The reality is, she did adore him then got to know him better and went off him. She needs to be safe in her home with people she likes. So unless she can become friends with him again, then it can't work. And I am not sure that I want it to.

I am so confused. It is hard to end things with someone there are residual feelings for. But I know my feelings are dying, or I wouldn't be capable of developing the flickering of feelings for someone else.

I want my DD to be happy and settled. Not scared of someone who I have brought into her life without her say so. She also worries about the alcohol, and I will not have excessive drinking normalised for her.

Great then keep this vile man away from her.

Re-read this thread.
Stop before the update to absorb what HAPPENED.

And then re-read your update.
It’s a total apologists, revisionist, minimising panic script - JADE of his actions so that you can attempt to justify a relationship with him.

Absentmindedly sipping a bottle and a half of wine whilst reading had me pissing myself laughing if it wasn’t all so tragic.

Put your DD front and centre here - her life opportunities are already compromised with her disability - she needs every break she can get to support her to a secure adulthood. She doesn’t need this nasty angry old drunk who can’t even hold down a relationship with his own children to pollute her life.

Keep him dumped.

There was nothing in your post that sounded abusive to me, OP. Do remember that this is the relationships board, where every single person is told their relationship is abusive. If you feel he is earnest in wanting to make reparations, and you still have feelings for him, then I don't see any harm in trying. A holiday can be a very stressful and intense experience for most well established couples - it doesn't mean you shouldn't date at all.

@CIareIsland

It’s a total apologists, revisionist, minimising panic script - JADE of his actions so that you can attempt to justify a relationship with him

Absentmindedly sipping a bottle and a half of wine whilst reading had me pissing myself laughing if it wasn’t all so tragic

There is an irony to my seeking help about someone's behaviour being unacceptable, and then some of the people giving advice About his behaviour being horrible to me too.

I have no idea what JADE is.

Really glad that you view my situation as hilarious if it wasn't so tragic. I was that smug, once upon a time, when I was a teenager. However, I realised it made me a fairly odious person so I dropped it.

@crowdo, this guy is a textbook abuser and I'm stunned you can't see it.

OP, just because it hurt to break up with him, it doesnt mean he's the love of your life. Breakups can be painful but surely abit of pain to protect your DD is worth it? The fact that you are even considering starting a relationship with another man when you are barely out of this one and that you cant cope with your emotions of ending a relationship when in the best interests of your child make me think you have huge codependency issues.

I'll remind you of all the reasons he is abusive

He's passive aggressive, withholds sex, has an addiction to alcohol, love bombed you in the beginning, is isolating you from your own DD, has a constant undertone of resentment, is financially unstable (they ALL are chronically irresponsible with money and its NEVER their fault), living a parasitic existence (I.e you are already funding his lifestyle by paying for holidays and lending him money), he's selfish and wont clean up after himself because he expects you to fawn over him just for cooking and theres more I haven't listed.

I guarantee if you dont see this breakup through then in a few months or years the shit will hit the fan. You are ignoring overwhelming instincts that this relationship is not right and as I can attest, anyone who does this ignores them at their peril.

Surely your DD deserves a better role model than a using alcoholic waster who is slowly chipping away at her mother. What if he's driving you and her somewhere and lied about drinking and you have an accident. What if you find out he really is being menacing to her when you are not there.

What will you say to your DD then? But I luffs him so much?

Stay away from dating and sort out why you feel the need to ignore your instincts that are there to protect your child.

Him chastising your DD for calling her grandmother an old woman (hardly the worst thing she could say, especially as ASD kids say what they see) was his ploy to undermine your exH authority. You've let a master manipulator into your family and he will tare it apart if you let him.

He truly is a wonderful person. My heart broke when I dumped him the other day and he left my house for the final time. It was one of the most painful things that has ever happened to me. My heart walked out of the door with him.

Come on @JoannaCuppa!!!! This sounds like you are writing a cheap novel. Your heart & head need to be invested in protecting yourself and your DD and you have outlined very clearly how this man is not right for you or your DD. He is a parasite, leaching money off you and wanting everything his own way. Read the thread back and read everything you've written about him!!!!!!