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Original poster

Expectations of men as a modern woman dating...is this unreasonable?

764 replies

Turtleneckjumpers · 04/08/2019 11:00

I'm single. I have a decent job which allowed me to buy a house in my late twenties (by no means a mansion, worth circa 220 in 2015).

I care about a nice home and want to see a bit of the world. I'm not materialistic in the sense of buying designer clothes etc (I'm a Primark person mostly!). But money bothers me. It is important to me because it is a safety net in many ways. So I work hard and hope to always be able to support myself.

Here's the question. I date. So many men have either not bought a house (I do understand this isn't easy, but by age 38 I question this!!) or in an average job earning less than I am - significantly.

I've met a lovely man, 38, good fun. But in a recent conversation he voluntarily disclosed what he earns (45k) and said he has a good bonus and car and he's happy with that. I didn't say this but i was thinking really?! Are you just going to think ok I'm happy with that?!

I've been thinking about how awful this probably makes me and how it is probably why i have been single for a few years now. Also people into their jobs are often (not always i know) not the best partners. But i can't help being bothered by this. I want someone who wants to provide and is ambitious. Am I attracted to the wrong things here or is this reasonable?

OP posts:
LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 04/08/2019 18:53

But OP, can you not see that you are actually looking for someone to fund lifestyle choices that you have already made, which therefore will make your dating pool tiny? You want an ambitious grafter who is happy to fund you being a SAHP (to children that don't exist yet) rather than an ambitious grafter who wants to split time at home equally if DCs do arrive. They must have a house and be actively looking for career progression so that there's no real reduction in lifestyle while this is happening.

I mean, that's fine - but own it. It really doesn't sound like the set up most people have apart from the very typical bankers I know, who have trophy wives that stay home.

Speaking as someone who grew up very poor and to whom security is very important, I don't think putting all your eggs in someone else's earning basket will make you happy either.

threemonthstogo · 04/08/2019 19:00

It's not really just about money though OP. If you are saying that you have an issue with someone who has decided they have no further aspirations, that I understand much more (though there is also something to be said about aspiring to a happy, balanced life!)

But many extremely successful people at the top of their professions will be capped at around 45k. Most people who are not in finance or business, in fact, ie anyone who has taken on more of a vocational profession and therefore has ambitions about having more of a positive impact on the world (medicine being one of the few exceptions).

Is it about the money, or more ambition?

jagack · 04/08/2019 19:11

Perhaps he feels he has his work/life balance right and wants to have time for relationships and hobbies and thinks any promotion would impede on that.

If that's not what you're looking for then that's fine but it doesnt reflect badly on him in my opinion - quite the opposite

beccamums29 · 04/08/2019 19:20

Wow how the other half live. My husband and I both earn pittance, we earned pittance each when we met, him living in a pokey attic flat and me in a shared house, we still earn pittance now, married, 2 kids and renting a little 2 up 2 down but are so happy. The material things don't really matter in the long run. Yes you might meet a man who earns £100k a year and owns property and nice cars and he could be the one, you could also meet a man who lives in a rental, drives a basic car and ears 20k and he could equally be the one but you wouldn't give him a chance because he doesn't have what you seem to class as important things. Ambition doesn't just have to be work and money related.

P1218120699 · 04/08/2019 19:20

I think you need to join an elite dating site to meet people similar to yourself. I'm not saying you're wrong in your thinking but you're definitely in the minority. I am working class (I do own my own home and have a degree) but don't know many people that earn more than 45K. Lots of professional people that I would consider to have good jobs like teachers, nurses, police etc don't earn 45k! I totally understand reaching a point in your life where you're happy with what you earn.....I work to live not live to work. I get far more pleasure from spending time with my children, friends and family than I do chasing the next promotion. I don't mean to sound rude but people who are totally engrossed in their jobs are often quite boring as they have nothing else to talk about.

Snog · 04/08/2019 19:23

You do seem fixated on money tbh.
Many people would place a higher priority on other things in choosing a life partner.

Ambitious men are not always easy to live with and some are more interested in snagging a young trophy wife than someone who earns a similar amount to them.

I think you risk staying single or having an unhappy marriage with this approach but if it really is how you feel then sensible to raise the bar on these pre-qualifying criteria.

stucknoue · 04/08/2019 19:23

£45k is double the average salary for where I live. Perhaps he knows there's more to life than money. Perhaps look for someone older, plenty of single guys circa 50 I've found

tomatoesandstew · 04/08/2019 19:27

Have you read Evan Mark Katz blog about dating? www.evanmarckatz.com/

A lot of his advice is geared at women who are ambitious and career driven and he talks in several of the blogs about the benefits and drawbacks of successful women dating men who earn less/ are less ambitious then them and what things to think about.

I think i find lack of ambition unattractive - or more i find passion and drive attractive not necessarily for money but to do stuff. I think it can also be hard for some men to deal with a woman who is more driven and earns more than them. ( I know plenty of men who say they aren't but they are in practice).

You don't have to "settle" for someone who lacks ambition and drive but as ToffeeApple 123 says you also want to consider the other qualities and what makes a good partner.

Yodude · 04/08/2019 19:28

I think if you were attracted to him you wouldn't care what he earned.

JoJoSM2 · 04/08/2019 19:32

OP, what would you like a guy in his early 30's to be earning?

ravenmum · 04/08/2019 19:32

in a recent conversation he voluntarily disclosed what he earns (45k) and said he has a good bonus and car and he's happy with that. I didn't say this but i was thinking really?! Are you just going to think ok I'm happy with that?!
Some people are deliriously happy with 45k, others aren't. Would you expect everyone you met to want more?

I've been thinking about how awful this probably makes me and how it is probably why i have been single for a few years now.
You are providing a pretty sturdy defence for your attitude that doesn't really tally with someone who is supposedly soul-searching and wondering if what she is doing makes her a bad person. Are you sure you're not subconsciously looking for some other kind of confirmation or reaction?

If you think you're being too obviously materialistic and men are actively put off by that, maybe do it more discreetly? Otherwise, if you want a certain kind of partner then you have to look for a certain kind of partner.

Snog · 04/08/2019 19:35

If your DH values your ambition and independence then he will probably not expect or want you to be a SAHM.

If he's not looking for ambition and independence he probably wants a young and beautiful trophy wife who he will quite possibly also want to upgrade on a regular basis.

So I'm not expecting it to be easy for you to get what you are looking for.

31RueCambon · 04/08/2019 19:36

He sounds smart not to chase the Bitch Goddess of "success" (financial)

Snog · 04/08/2019 19:37

Going for someone a lot older than you who is on their second marriage could work, is that something you might consider?

twattymctwatterson · 04/08/2019 19:39

You set whatever standards you want from a relationship, you have every right to do that.

Of course it might mean you're alone for a long time because the men you meet either don't fit your bill or will have you pegged as being more interested in what the earn/can potentially earn than their personality.

Some people are happy to kick back when earning £45k because money isn't their key driver and they'd have to sacrifice too much to push into the next wage bracket.

Original poster
Turtleneckjumpers · 04/08/2019 19:41

im not obviously materialistic - i dont actually think i am materialistic at all. i could well be wrong! is it materialistic to want to have a comfortable lifestyle with minimal money worries? (genuine question!!)

i've had plenty of messages from men asking if they can be a house husband - to the point where i have taken my job off my profile. men aren't always looking for a trophy wife - and with respect, nobody here knows what i look like. whilst i would never speak for myself on this, i can say there are plenty of very attractive high earning women in my workplace.

OP posts:
IcedPurple · 04/08/2019 19:41

To answer a few of the questions...yes it is a lot about ambition, more so than money.

I think it's already been said, but you have a very narrow idea of 'ambition'.

As has been pointed out several times, this man is on a very comfortable salary - well above the average - and maybe for him that's more than enough. Ambition doesn't have to be about the pursuit of the corner office. Maybe he has ambitions to travel, to read a lot, to spend time with friends and family or so many other things.

Obviously, if you don't consider any of this important, and it's all about climbing the greasy pole for you, then clearly you and this man are not well suited. But you're acting as though there's something wrong with him for earning a well above average salary at a relatively young age. Really, there isn't. He sounds like he's doing just fine.

Original poster
Turtleneckjumpers · 04/08/2019 19:42

the poster who asked what i expect a man early thirties to be earning...id say similar to me.

OP posts:
toycar · 04/08/2019 19:45

if his income won't allow you to share the lifestyle you want or means that he doesn't have the drive traits that you find attractive, then its not going to work. you can't force the shoe to fit.

if i were to divorce my dh, then i would want to meet someone with attractive character traits as were as the physical chemistry. that for me would be manifested in a high income, well rounded culturally, drive and ambition to lead.

i know my limits though and on 25k as a senior member in an office admin team, i know a £140k council service director or a equity holding sales director of a large company on £100k plus share dividends won't find me exciting or driven enough for them. they'd be worried they'd have to do all the paying.

if you are on not much more than him then it sounds like you're in the same category and a broadly equal.

if you want a very high earner, find someone else. get yourself to places where you think you will find someone.

thinkingcapon · 04/08/2019 19:47

Would you be ok if he had ambition but didnt earn as much or same as you?

I think you might be projecting quite far into future .........what happens if kids don't happen but you find someone who ticks all the boxes? Why don't you go back to work full time if kids do come along?

You're really narrowing your search here.......I think you may have to tweak your expectations and focus on the now x

GroggyLegs · 04/08/2019 19:50

Ambitious men are not always easy to live with

This.
And when you leave work & have babies and actually you need help, and need him to be there & do just one night feed so you can drive the car without dropping off at the wheel (and that's without any extras like PND or a child with reflux) the game will change again.

I understand your view, I really do, but if you're planning to spend your life with someone, I'd suggest your first thought should be how they're going to be when the chips are down, not how they are while you're both setting the business world alight with single person's time & ambition.

SouthernMan · 04/08/2019 19:51

I work for the NHS. I help people get out of hospital and back to independence. I am not a Dr. I do not earn anywhere near 45k, now will I probably. It seems we won't end up in a relationship, but I'm ok with that.

toycar · 04/08/2019 19:51

dont rule them out just cause the are not high enough earners now as well. when i met dh he was on 35k, within 9 years, he's trebled and has share dividends but we weren't too far apart when we met.

Original poster
Turtleneckjumpers · 04/08/2019 19:54

SouthernMan I loved your post. And I get your point.

OP posts:
ravenmum · 04/08/2019 19:54

I was just assuming that when you said how awful this probably makes me you meant awfully materialistic, and it is probably why i have been single for a few years now meant that men were put off by your materialism. If not, what is it that you're worried about? What advice were you hoping for?

is it materialistic to want to have a comfortable lifestyle with minimal money worries?
It's materialistic to make money the main focus of your wishes. Most of us have a materialist side. Yours seems quite pronounced.