Expectations of men as a modern woman dating...is this unreasonable?

[Turtleneckjumpers]

I'm single. I have a decent job which allowed me to buy a house in my late twenties (by no means a mansion, worth circa 220 in 2015).

I care about a nice home and want to see a bit of the world. I'm not materialistic in the sense of buying designer clothes etc (I'm a Primark person mostly!). But money bothers me. It is important to me because it is a safety net in many ways. So I work hard and hope to always be able to support myself.

Here's the question. I date. So many men have either not bought a house (I do understand this isn't easy, but by age 38 I question this!!) or in an average job earning less than I am - significantly.

I've met a lovely man, 38, good fun. But in a recent conversation he voluntarily disclosed what he earns (45k) and said he has a good bonus and car and he's happy with that. I didn't say this but i was thinking really?! Are you just going to think ok I'm happy with that?!

I've been thinking about how awful this probably makes me and how it is probably why i have been single for a few years now. Also people into their jobs are often (not always i know) not the best partners. But i can't help being bothered by this. I want someone who wants to provide and is ambitious. Am I attracted to the wrong things here or is this reasonable?

Tatiana perhaps he doesn’t see himself staying in the same place long term so doesn’t want to tie himself to a house purchase. Maybe he’s in London and simply can’t afford it. So are people on lower salaries who have no choice but to rent ‘throwing money away’ in your eyes? Young graduates who want to try living in a few different cities before thinking about their long term home? self employed people who can’t get a mortgage because it’s more difficult for them? It’s all about striking a balance. There’s no one right way to do things, even if you seem to think so. I’m glad I’m not so narrow minded as to think there is one one universal and acceptable marker of maturity. God forbid anyone wants to treat themselves to spend money on things that bring some joy to their lives.

madcatlady plenty of men on here are expected to support their non-working wives to potter about doing their hobbies well after their children have grown up but that doesn’t seem to cause anyone a problem... what on Earth do you mean ‘don’t know how to be a man?’ How about just accepting everyone has different priorities in life and are entitled to live as they see fit, in the way that’ll make them happiest?

Plenty of men only start to want to become good providers and home owners when they meet the right partner. Unless he said he’ll never aspire to anything more than what he does now, no matter what, or he’s waiting for a higher earning woman to come along and provide for him, I wouldn’t be at all worried tbh

.... and 38 is hardly old

I’m 31 and I have chosen not to further my career anymore, I easily could if I wanted, but I’m motivated by happiness not money. I could easily progress more if I wanted to, but that would mean increasing my working days ans working until 7-8pm everyday, I would only see my son at the weekends/first thing in the morning which wouldn’t be acceptable.

£45k is decent, it would even be enough to live a decent quality of life where I live.

What would you do if you met the man of your dreams and in a few years he changed career? Would you value the love you shared or leave him as he no longer fit your earning ideal?

When my ex and I got together he literally earned nothing, he had also chosen a career which was almost guaranteed not to work, but for him a few years later he got lucky and it has worked. Him earning £0 or hundreds of thousands meant absolutely no difference to me.

Op - you say that you want to be a SAHM once you have children yet are happy to criticise this man for his lack of ambition? What if your dream man rejects you for your future lack of ambition in wanting to quit work altogether?

You are fine to have whatever priorities suit you. We all want different things. The more precise the criteria, the smaller the pool of eligible partners.

It sounds (correct me if I'm wrong) like you've got your job and then when you have children you want to step out/down and he needs to earn enough to compensate for your drop of income.

I think you're perhaps equating ambition with money. There are many challenging jobs that can show someone's drive and ambition that don't pay highly. Equally, when you say "that's it" at a salary point, it doesn't always mean lack of ambitoon. It could mean they're happy there, it could mean they don't want to compromise their home life and wellbeing by making the next jump (I know a few dads who feel they have to keep going to provide for their wife and kids because they want a certain lifestyle and comfort level, but he'd be happy where they were). It could be that they're happy to move sideways for a new challenge but without the additional stress.

Op - you say that you want to be a SAHM once you have children yet are happy to criticise this man for his lack of ambition? What if your dream man rejects you for your future lack of ambition in wanting to quit work altogether?

This. Also the comment about ‘waiting for a rich woman to come and subsidise him’ - that’s what a lot of women do! I don’t think it’s acceptable but you can’t say it’s fine for a woman but cocklodging when it’s a man

I just don't get OP's post from start to finish - 'I hope to be always able to support myself', yet at the same time states shock that a man she's not even dating hasn't expressed a desire to provide financially for her 😆

I get this. Dont want to gamble my house on 'love,' or a serious relation. 🎰 🏚

For a male worker, 30-39, full time, that puts him over the 75th centile for earnings. (ASHE table 20 from the ONS). For all full time including women it puts him on the 8th centile. Are you sure you're up for cutting out more than 3/4 of men on the basis of their earnings?

If you also earn £45k, that's a total household income after tax of 5k per month, even allowing for pension contributions.

I bought a new car (new to me) not long ago. 6 years old, perfect nick, 30,000 miles on the clock for £5k.

Bringing in 5k a month between two definitely gives room for saving for cars and maternity leave and whatever else you need to save for.

I understand wanting someone who cares about their job, but caring about life outside work is really important too.

80th*

Poor OP.

I'm a SAHM who married a "rich banker". When we met I was scraping by on £1k a month as a freelancer.

I know it's not de rigour to say, but sometimes I think the type of man you're after wants a pretty young thing with low earning potential rather than their equal. So maybe you'll have to lower your expectations?

Just talking from my own experience and that of my SAHM friends!

45k however is not the peak of someone's career.

Er.... perhaps you need to get out more. It is WAY more than most people ever earn

However, as you already earn more than that, and you also already own your own property, I'm not really understanding why you seem to need to be finding a man who passes your weird 'earnings' test.

Have you really got to your age without learning there are FAR more important attributes in a partner than their paycheck?

I was married to someone who earned mega bucks, but we never saw each other as we both worked long hours. He was always on call, we couldn't go anywhere without him having to check in with the office - on his salary it was expected. I was totally miserable.

I am now with a man who isn't ambitious and will probably never earn much more than minimum wage and am very happy. He is kind and thoughtful and he has cared for me when I was diagnosed with a chronic condition. We have to rent while we save for a deposit, but that's okay.

It is important to have someone who aligns with your values, but money and security does not always bring happiness. My life will probably be a bit shorter than it would have been without my illness and I would rather spend it with a man who fills my days with happiness.

You are immediately writing off a lot of men, which is an issue as at your age men around you may well be married or divorced with children and have less disposable income anyway. Some roles will never make the amount you want either, so you are also eliminating quite a lot of people there too. You may find someone on a lower income but who is ambitious, which still works. Women fought long enough for equality, why shouldn't we earn more in a relationship

I think you have internalized the old fashioned attitude that a man should be the main breadwinner and that a man who isn't is somehow lacking.

Just remember that when kids come along the lower earner tends to take the career back seat. Twenty years later you're resentfully exhausted from childcare and wifework, de-skilled, financially vulnerable and reliant on your ambitious high earner not going off with another woman or turning into an abusive arse because he knows you can't easily up sticks and leave him. You're already saying you'd let your career take a back seat and that will ultimately reduce your options and security, not enhance it. I speak from bitter experience.

Enjoy your single and judgemental life.

Well if you want a high earner, you're going to need to get your clothes from somewhere more upmarket than Primark.

Men tend to get judged on their earnings and women on their looks and weight.

There's a lot more to life than how much someone earns - particularly when the someone already earns quite a lot- sadly I do think you'll be single for a lot longer if that's what you're prioritising.

For me someone’s salary wouldn’t put me off but a lack of drive would. For example, someone earning less than me but committed to learning more and developing themselves and their career is attractive whether in a high earning career or not whereas someone happy to drift is not.

Is it just the number you are interested in? If so I’d say that’s very materialistic, but if you want someone with passion and drive to match yours that’s not unreasonable. Would you be ok if they worked for a charity or other lower paid sector but were ambitious?

After 26 years in the classroom, teaching the current and next generations, 45k sounds like a fortune to me.
But I would never judge a potential partner on their income....who they are, the values they have are far more important.

Thanks for the replies.

To answer a few of the questions...yes it is a lot about ambition, more so than money. If someone lost their job for whatever reason and I had to hold things together then of course that would be fine. If they wanted to change career again that would be fine.

I have to say I have had my eyes opened about salaries on this thread. I don’t know anyone my age on less than 35k and most are on a lot more. So someone at 38 on 45k suggests they’re not that bothered about progression.

People have asked would I be ok not having a man around for bathtkme etc with kids and doing the majority of childcare. 100% yes and I would be extremely understanding and proud of them for having such dedication to work. I know work is not the be all and end all but it is something I care about and would want to support my partner with too.

I think you need to concentrate on where you meet potential partners if you want a certain type of guy.

You're unlikely to find him in the local pub, but may be luckier in an exclusive venue ?

You're going to have to go to the places the men who earn a significant salary are likely to be.

Absolutely nothing wrong with what you're looking for, there's a lid for every pot etc. but previous posters are correct when they say the dating pool for you will be much smaller.

Maybe you need to find an online dating site for better off people ?

Good luck xx

I don't think yabu @Turtleneckjumpers

Whilst I don't feel the same way, I know someone who met a man, married him and had a child and now she is utterly miserable. She is super conscientious and he is just happy with his easy comfortable job and has no desire to change it. It totally infuriates her.

I think you just need to be aware of your expectations and find someone who fits.

There are other things to be ambitious about other than money.

Does he enjoy his job? Get fantastic job satisfaction, do something he feels is really worthwhile? Perhaps that’s a priority more than money.

I work as a midwife, I love the job and can never imagine doing anything else. If I were to climb the ladder I’d find myself pushing paper and doing less/no hands on care. I wouldn’t say I’m not ambitious though, it just means the ambitions I have are less money orientated, and more about trying to improve the service we provide etc.

It seems a shame to cut out so many potentially lovely men just because of their salary

People have asked would I be ok not having a man around for bathtkme etc with kids and doing the majority of childcare. 100% yes and I would be extremely understanding and proud of them for having such dedication to work.

You say that now, but IMO it easy to say that in theory.

I think it's funny that you say you want an ambitious man who earns well because you want security but want to become a SAHM. Which would weaken your own security.

After becoming a single mother due to a man who was abusive and used his stressful work as an excuse the most important attribute a man can have to me is kindness. I also would never give up work no matter how much a partner earns.

Hi OP,
Given your follow up then I think when you find the right person the ‘number’ won’t matter for you. You just need someone with your same drive. I’m like you that most of my friends are similar, career focused and the ‘get shit done!’ type of people. That actually means in my case a variety of salaries as some of them are creative types who are amazingly talented artists, others are high earners in the city or scientists in academia but importantly they are all driven and fascinating people.