Expectations of men as a modern woman dating...is this unreasonable?

[Turtleneckjumpers]

I'm single. I have a decent job which allowed me to buy a house in my late twenties (by no means a mansion, worth circa 220 in 2015).

I care about a nice home and want to see a bit of the world. I'm not materialistic in the sense of buying designer clothes etc (I'm a Primark person mostly!). But money bothers me. It is important to me because it is a safety net in many ways. So I work hard and hope to always be able to support myself.

Here's the question. I date. So many men have either not bought a house (I do understand this isn't easy, but by age 38 I question this!!) or in an average job earning less than I am - significantly.

I've met a lovely man, 38, good fun. But in a recent conversation he voluntarily disclosed what he earns (45k) and said he has a good bonus and car and he's happy with that. I didn't say this but i was thinking really?! Are you just going to think ok I'm happy with that?!

I've been thinking about how awful this probably makes me and how it is probably why i have been single for a few years now. Also people into their jobs are often (not always i know) not the best partners. But i can't help being bothered by this. I want someone who wants to provide and is ambitious. Am I attracted to the wrong things here or is this reasonable?

He is not BU to feel happy with what he has and not want more. I agree looking after your own financial wellbeing is important but it sounds like he’s done this, he just prioritises a work/life balance and for whatever reason, can’t or doesn’t want to buy a house. If he’s in London it still wouldn’t be that easy to buy alone on £45k. Or perhaps he just wants the freedom that comes with not owning. There is nothing wrong with his outlook, but if it doesn’t match yours YANBU to not want to date him. Doesn’t mean he’s wrong though

He definitely isn't the right one for him - or really you aren't the right one for him. He deserves someone who isn't going to criticise him for his choices and circumstances from the outset.

How far does this go? So you get your Prize ambitious high earner. If he couldn't work anymore because of an accident or illness would you lose respect for him? If he lost his job and couldn't find a £££££££ job again would that not be good enough for you? Obviously we can't be sure how we'd feel/react if that happened to our partners until it happens, but if your relationship is based on who they are as a person rather than their earnings and what car they drive, then I'd say your relationship has a much better chance of surviving long term.

Personally I would be very wary of requiring someone to fit into a particular role, which I is what you come across as doing. He will never be "good enough" for you.

what's his career? in his sector, maybe it is the peak of his career

Yes your expectations are too high.

YANBU. 45k isn’t much and it’s easy to earn more. Unless someone has children/a lot in assets/a high earning partner the only explanation for that kind of attitude is laziness. It’s one thing to have a lot of money anddecideypudont want to pusjypyself to earn more - fair enough, but deciding to not push yourself when you are in a poor financial position is short sighted.

You don’t want someone too ambitious and workaholic. But a 38 year old on 45k who hasn’t got his shit together to buy a house. It’s a bit lacking in initiative. What’s he been spending his money on?

There’s a happy medium.

Surely it would be far worse to end up in a serious relationship with someone on say 60k a year and then realise they have debt up to their eyeballs that they didn't disclose. It doesn't matter that he hasn't got a house if you're dating. He's got a salary that nearly matches yours so he's compatible for affording holidays and meals out to an equal amount. The housing market has significantly changed since you got your mortgage which is presumably why most of these men aren't on the housing ladder now (not unless they want to curb their social lives to save for a deposit. In which case they couldn't afford to be spending money dating anyway).

You sound like the kind of person who will never be happy. You’ll meet the man on 75. Give up work. Have kids , be fucked off that he cares more about his job and is never at home, you do all the wife work.

Would you rather have a man who was there for you, who earned a bit less, or a man who was absent a lot of the time, chasing the next promotion or the next bonus?

Men who are ambitious and driven in their careers, with a high earning capacity, don't get there by being home at six every night and helping put the kids to bed. They break a lot of arrangements and tend towards unreliability. Not always, but that's often the reality of being with a high earner. Is that what you want?

I used to think that money didn't matter at all and married for love twice. I was taken advantage of financially and basically ended up funding 2 cocklodgers. I would be wary of getting involved with a man who could benefit from me like that again. You can think everything is great and they'd never be like that, but when things go wrong and turn nasty people can be awful about money. I think you have a fair point OP.

Boggles i suspect you’re trolling but if you think £45k is a poor financial position then you clearly have had a life and experience substantially more privileged than the vast majority of people, so your opinion is frankly redundant.

Tatiana maybe he doesn’t want to? Owning a house isn’t the be all and end all. Perhaps he’d rather have holidays/clothes/cars/donate to charity etc. His prerogative. Money and salary isn’t the only marker of success. What’s the point of having loads of it if you’re miserable in your job or never treat yourself because you save every penny?

45k however is not the peak of someone's career

You're entitled to your expectations, however you are severely curtailing your pool of available AND acceptable men with the above position.

I do agree that its preferable to own a home by the age of 38 and would expect a man on £45k to have sorted this for himself by that age.

loretta they don’t have to marry. Keep finances separate so you know your safety net is always yours

As you own your own house I think it is perfectly acceptable to date men who also own their own homes. Otherwise if you do become serious with one and get married or live together there will be a huge inequality of assets which could cause long term problems. We all have boundaries and I think yours are perfectly acceptable.

BogglesGoggles Please do tell how it’s easier to earn more than 45k? It’s substantially higher than the average salary. Am curious.

The majority of Europeans (especially Germany) rent and don't own. Housing is a poor marker of ambition, overall wealth and money management skills.

I think his attitude sounds great. I think he sounds balanced (from what you say). Hardworking and responsible enough to hold a job yet secure and confident enough to stop driving forward and just enjoy life with what he has. Often people who are always wanting more feel they have something to prove.
From what you say, a lot of your life is focused around your career and financial situation - I wonder what you’re missing out on by being this way.

Tatiana maybe he doesn’t want to? Owning a house isn’t the be all and end all. Perhaps he’d rather have holidays/clothes/cars/donate to charity etc. His prerogative. Money and salary isn’t the only marker of success.

He’d rather throw all his money away on rent than on a mortgage is what you mean. It’s very short-sighted.

Someone who fritters money on holidays, cars and clothes wouldn’t be for me. It indicates shallowness and immaturity.

I think what you need to think about is the negatives that come with earning lots and being ambitious. So very long days, little time off, being on call to work all of the time and family not being a priority to name a few. So I think trying to do a bit of work on this is probably a good idea as I'm not actually sure the thing you're attracted to equals a happy life.

Quite honestly OP having married two utter losers and ending up supporting them whilst they spent all their time doing their hobbies and nothing to help me I think you are right to be picky. I'd much rather be single than date someone who is not securing his future and who is incapable of supporting me if necessary. Far too many men out there whon simply don't know how to be men.

"45k is not a fortune"

Erm, it is to a lot of us.

I think what you need to think about is the negatives that come with earning lots and being ambitious. So very long days, little time off, being on call to work all of the time and family not being a priority to name a few

^^This.

Oh my goodness, I was married to an incredibly high earner who was actually a disgusting poor excuse for a man but felt he was successful due to his high earning. Violent, Narc and atrocious father.
I’ve also knows guys earning far less, more intelligent, far kinder and by far more fun. How on earth can an income determine a person.
I’ve been on income support before yet I’ve also managed an incredibly successful job.
Be careful you don’t have an isolating criteria to determine your men.
Weirdos come in all shapes and sizes. Some homeless people have previously been incredibly successful but have fallen on hard times through no fault of their own. Top of your game, you could say they have further to fall. Bottom of your game, further to climb.
Open your eyes, not your check list

I don’t think it’s fair to judge someone for earning 45k at 38. It’s a good amount of money and possibly the ceiling in some professional careers (eg teachers or architects) unless you want to be a senior manager which some people might not like to do. So YABU for that.

However, if you feel you’d like the man to be the main breadwinner once you have a family + you want a comfortable lifestyle (good house, holidays, savings, decent pensions etc) then look for the sort of guy that is on the same page. Just don’t get outraged that someone has a different viewpoint to you...

It isn't going to work but not because of money, it's values. You obviously find your job is important and being ambitious and wanting to develop your career is important. He seems like someone who earns money to facilitate his life and its other aspects that define him.

If you're going to have children with someone and it's not going to be a constant push/pull then one or both need to dial back. If you want that to be you then you need to feel comfortable with what they earn. But be careful, lots of my friends who are with career focused men have been left with most of the childrearing/wifework.