I hope this man's wife is on Mumsnet

[HollowTalk]

Article in The Guardian today - "My Life in Sex".

This is what the man says:

I met my wife at university, and we married when I was 27 and she was 25. We had a vanilla sex life for the first 10 years, after which I decided we should stop. For 29 years we have had no sexual contact. This lack of a physical relationship goes undiscussed and does not cause any tension. We both take it for granted and are rarely in the same room.

I can only assume my wife has remained celibate. Meanwhile, I get physical satisfaction from cottaging, something I started doing shortly after we married. I use a railway station toilet in London, as well as one in my local station and another near where I live.

My preference is for other married men. Picking them up is easy – you just stand at the urinal for as long as it takes. You can tell if other men are keen by whether they linger a little too long, then we make our way to a cubicle. The best time is when they travel home from work at six o’clock.

I enjoy the social status attached to being married and I still feel affection for my wife – just no physical desire. I went off sex with her because she was too emotional and clingy afterwards; I just wanted to go to sleep.

Sex with other married men is quick and involves little emotional commitment. There’s someone I’ve met several times, but I’m only interested in casual encounters. I like knowing I can give men something their wives can’t.

Well said, Josepheen.
Don’t care about the random strangers aspect, do care about it happening in a public space. Not because homosexuality should be hidden, but because none of us should have other people’s sexual activity imposed on us. Same goes for dogging.

Can one of you tell me when you had “other people’s sexual activity imposed” on you? Because in 65 years on this earth, it’s never happened to me. Have I been exceptionally fortunate and it happens to other people all the time?

Really?
Cottaging-my father complained about this. He was a commuter, the station loos in the city were busy with it.
Parks in the summer, dark alleyways and if you live rurally and near a dogging place the disruption can be considerable.

Yes, you do see through it. It being a millennial lens. I’ve already said that.

I don’t think having been a cool girl in the 70s was what you really meant, was it?

I completely agree @NottonightJosepheen

So basically he had an active sex life with his wife and was still cruising in public toilets looking for ‘ fun’ with other men for some years before he stopped having sex with her .

He was oddly specific in the article about when he stopped having sex. 29 years ago, when he decided they should stop, not a slow fizzling out, can't remember the last time cos didn't know it was the last time.

That would have been late 80s. My guess is that it was when AIDS stories were all over the papers and on TV; selfish arsehole though he was, perhaps he had a modicum of decency and wanted to protect his wife- or maybe just thought it would look bad in his social circles if he contracted HIV, passed it to his wife and she died of AIDS. That explanation wouldn't have fitted the tone of the article. Easier to blame the woman for being "vanilla" and needy (probably her not wanting to stare at the wall getting fucked up the arse every night by someone who rolls over and falls asleep straight afterwards). If it's a choice between no sex or being used as a human wanksock for someone who is pretending that he's riding a man...meh give me celibacy. Or a kind and passionate lover.

Why does he mention his sex life was "vanilla"? What was he expecting? Surely (since he's gay) he should be saying he had a fundamentally unsatisfying sex life (as I'm sure it was for his wife as well). The sheer dishonesty amazes me, and the lack of any remorse. IF this was known by his spouse and she generally felt the life suited her - great. But how likely is that?

alsohuman not everyone who disagrees with you is a millennial.

I didn’t say they were. Although neopuritanism is a millennial trait.

Not wanting my husband to fuck around with men in public toilets and lie to me about it is puritan
You had me going for a minute.

We’re not talking about your husband @Rainforevermore. I thought be were debating the morality of cottaging and long term sexless marriages.

I don't think many of us are millennials @Alsohuman so i'm not sure why you're flogging that hobbyhorse to death.

I’ve mentioned it once.

The thing this thread illustrates for me is what a big gap there is between generations. Those of us with six decades under our belts, not only remember different times so we see this in context, but have lost our idealism about relationships. 8.57am

Yes, you do see through it. It being a millennial lens. I’ve already said that. 9.50am

I didn’t say they were. Although neopuritanism is a millennial trait. 10.32am

So. You've been banging on about it for two hours now.

Speaking for myself, I'm middle aged and getting a bit bored of being told the problem is that we're all puritanical young-uns.

I think most of us here are 40+ TBH.

I used the word millennial twice. I stand corrected. And apologise for apparently not being able to count up to two.

I stand by what I said about the gap in generations accounting for the disparity in views, nonetheless. Why is that such an inflammatory viewpoint? Nobody younger than 52 was even alive when homosexuality was illegal, let alone remembers what it was like.

He is a misogynist that’s for sure, his goal isn’t so much sexual gratification as getting one over on the wives of the other men. Sad little man.

Well just to be clear there's a whole generation between you and the millennials @Alsohuman My CHILDREN are the millennials.

And, FWIW, I don't think fucking in public is acceptable from anyone.Dogging or cottaging. Behind close doors, everyone is welcome to go ahead and fill their boots.

It was a criminal offence for the first dozen years of my life (we aren't all in England) I remember men locally being arrested for sex in a carpark. I also remember going to school with the daughter of one of those men. The gay men were obviously victims of an unjust system but there were plenty of other victims too.

Why is trying to explain the difference in attitudes logically making you so angry @Rainforevermore? Of all the things people have said here, it must be one of the least contentious.

Angry? Can anyone else on here explain what sounds angry about my last post?
Other than being fed up at the assumption we are all English, you've got me there I suppose!

The gay men were obviously victims of an unjust system

The thing is, nobody NEEDS to rut in public toilets.

Arguably not then, definitely not now.

A lot of this is about the entitlement of men to have sex when they want it.

Nobody needs to “rut” in shop doorways but lots of heterosexual couples do it. Nobody needs to “rut” on the balcony of a hotel room but it was widely advocated on MN not long ago.

I’m not excusing cottaging. I find it squalid but I do understand it, particularly given its historic context. It’s hardly in public, my understanding is that it happens in a locked cubicle.