DIVORCING sulking H!

[jamaisjedors]

This is my fourth thread ! (Long-time mn-er.)

I initially started a thread reluctantly in December after my H ruined my birthday weekend (and 1st anniversay of my dad's death) by giving me the silent treatment all weekend to "punish me" for not being grateful enough for him coming away and buying me a present and a card.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking?msgid=84022238

Thanks to some amazing posters I realised that H's behaviour (which was not at all a one-off) was abusive and unacceptable.

I prepared to leave him and got plans in place but got "hoovered" back in by H with promises of joint counselling, individual counselling for him, and regular "date nights". Unfortunately none of that changed the dynamic in our relationship : 2nd thread :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3498886-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking-part2?msgid=85957683

I started a 3rd thread in May when H and I had decided to separate :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3580872-LEAVING-sulking-H?msgid=88239005

and that's when things got nightmarish.

As everyone on here pointed out, the most dangerous time for women is when they decide to leave an abusive partner.

In a nutshell, H went missing, had an acute psychotic episode, was admitted to a psychiatric facility and is still in there now.

Staff at the hospital warned me H could be dangerous for me and advised me to move out asap which I did, in fear for my life.

Things now are on a reasonably even keel 2 months on but now the battle is managing H who is continuing his abusive behaviour and also protecting the DC (12 & 14) - H is expecting to get joint custody.

Thanks again to all the wonderful posters who have advised me, informed me, cheered me on, shared their experiences and generally been an invaluable source of support over the last 7-8 months.

I expected this, my lawyer warned me, but still...

It annoys me that he is doing it through the DC (putting them in an awkward position) and also making me look like the baddie for saying no.

This is similar to what he did at the end of August, starting watching a film with the DC after dinner and then stopping it half-way through saying "mummy wants you back so we can't watch all of it".

They are smart kids though, we will chat tonight but they did not originally ask to go to the cinema (they didn't know what film it was) and we have had the chat about "taking messages" and they made it clear at that point they wanted exH and I to be the adults and keep the discussions about timings etc between ourselves.

On repeat to the boys
The judges decision is final for this year, it's hard for everyone, me included, (dad hates being told what he can't do) so don't pass on messages for dad, just tell him to sort it out with me.

He can go & see a matinée at a big mall..... He is playing games

Yes, he totally can go at any other time, it's raining for the rest of the week and he has them til Sunday night and they have no big plans (and can't go away). There are at least 3 cinemas near us with multiple showings (but none finishing at 10pm).

@mankyfourthtoe I need to practise saying that in a calm voice on repeat.

I notice that it was DC2 who passed on the message this time, I suspect DC1 said no as he was the one who mentioned it last night and also the one who originally discussed it with his psychologist and said he hated passing the messages on.

You can grey rock further:

"You know what the court order says, they have to be home for 9pm"

That is something you can also say to the boys, "the court orders says x I cannot over ride it"

@RandomMess

I think down the line I will totally grey rock all the way.

But for the moment I am mindful that exH will probably produce every text and email in court and the judges like it if you are civil and making an effort to get on.

In fact this worked in my favour with the hearing in August as all my messages are very civil and polite (with the standard greetings etc.) so exH was way off the mark trying to say that I was an evil vicious narcissist stopping him from seeing his children.

But I agree that if there is another request this week I will keep it even simpler, it's what I did this summer when he tried pushing it.

The problem is that the court order states that we can come to a "better agreement" so the DC know that is possible under some circumstances to get around it.

I don't want to get into this habit, and certainly not 2 days into the firm legal arrangements. But the possibility exists and equally I don't want to be accused of being totally unreasonable and inflexible against the DC's interests (because of course exH's text says "the DC want to go to the cinema" NOT "I want to take them to the cinema".)

I think 'better agreement' would come down the line when he's shown he's feeling better, putting the children first, following the plan re his share of having ds etc.
Where you're comfortable letting the reins go somewhat.

Seen it played out on other threads, A tries to push order boundaries and win concessions and B gives in to be nice, then A either accuses B of not following the order or the “one-off” concessions are taken to be permanent change.

@Ghostontoast - this is what my lawyer says. Interesting that it's true elsewhere too (not just in this country).

and yes, better agreement I explained to the DC would be sometime next year when we see how daddy is doing.

Sadly I think 'better agreement' is never going to happen.

He is never going to agree with anyone about anything unless his wishes are being met.

Well done jamais for outsmarting him at every move.

You've got this - despite him being tedious & tiresome.

I think the only “agreement” he would ever settle on is a groveling public apology and then Jamais falling on a sword. As that is NEVER going to happen, because Jamais has nothing to apologize for, or any reason to hang her head in shame, we are here to support Jamais, and cheer her on through his many erroneous accusations and let him dig his own grave, as he seems to be very adept at this so far.

Yes it's all worked out not quite according to his plan

He said to me at one point that if I left he would tell everyone that he had thrown me out because I was such a pain.

Funny how not one person I have spoken to thought he left me and not the other way round.

Now he's playing the stalling game, ignoring the email I sent about medical expenses for the dc.

If he doesn't reply, it's just one more thing to present to the judge, refusing to post for the psychologist and now dental treatment.

Meanwhile I'm trying to make the most of my week "off" even if I have to be home at 9pm every night.

I have been at work but yesterday I went to the cinema (alone, it was absolutely fine).

Today I met a friend for lunch, went to the hairdresser and did some diy shopping fid bits for the house.

I've lined up lots of catch ups with friends for most days too and I'm enjoying playing my music loudly at home and cooking food I like.

Generally life is good, even if I have regular waves of sadness, both at what was lost (the good times), and what will never be, but also nasty memories which float to the surface of stuff exh said to me or about me.

The saddest thing of all is that I thought I deserved it and that he was right and I just needed to improve myself.

I'm enjoying finding out who I want to be and who I have been all this time.

A huge thank you to everyone reading and keeping me company and cheering me on.

I am so proud of you Jamais for releasing that guilt that HE fed you. It is so hard to break that kind of conditioning that you have grown into over the years. That is how brainwashing works, too. I am also pleased that you have such support in real life as well as the fandoms in space like me! You deserve happiness, and surrounding yourself with loyal, kind people who genuinely support you and recognize you for who you are, not the the functions you provide them to facilitate THEIR life or the image of their life, is the best way forward! I love how you acknowledge and luxuriate in the everyday freedoms in your life (like your music). You must feel like you have been liberated from so many different types of domestic jails!
I am raising my coffee to you (it’s morning where I live, or it would be much bubblier) to your many freedoms and every happiness that you find along the way!!!

you sound so much happier and so much more believing in yourself, which is wonderful to read.

I am a totally different person, I hardly recognise myself.

Unfortunately for Exh, I don't think he will be able to gain any distance from all of this and find the joy I have now.

I chatted to his sister last week and she is very worried for him and also doesn't think there is much hope of him ever letting go of his hatred.

She is worried about how he is influencing the kids - and warned me to be careful.

Apparantly in one of his emails to her or their brother, he said he had taught DC2 to "mistrust schools, doctors and most importantly, his mother".

I don't get that vibe off DC2 but I am more determined than ever that he continues seeing his psychologist for the time being, particulary after a whole week with Dad this week.

Any chance they will forward that email to you/your solicitor/his health professionals???

Yes. Good idea. It is also worth preparing for the possibility that he will always be a toxic figure in relation to the DC. Regardless of his recovery from his mental health issues. He will be who he always has been. A controlling man determined on his own way. You know he cannot and will not change. I don't doubt he loves his DC, and they him but that is not the same as being a good parent.

When Deborah Orr died so tragically recently I was reminded of her writing about her son's behaviour towards her during a dispute with her XH. At the time I though it was an example of how we all are impacted by the behaviour we grow up observing.

You keeping a watch on your DC and your other plans is exactly the right thing (imo).

I am so glad that you have that relationship with your SIL that she is giving you a heads up. This sounds like something that needs to be noted legally though for future. I am glad that so far your son doesn't seem to be taking much notice of it.

Jesus thats disturbing. No wonder he doesnt want him going to the psychiatrist

Scary to see how he wants to distance DC from you :(
Please dont go and keep posting.
Your life is what mine will be when i decide to give up on my hope of redemption and change
Sulking for 48 hours since i dared to say that no, i wouldn't like that radiator moved to another wall as i need the wall free for the baby's cot and i dont want the cot just by the radiator as baby could scold himself.
Reaction: punching a chest of drawers in front of our toddler and has sulked for 2 days. As if i dont even exist or i m not in the room.
So tempted to sulk myself and ignore that he exists for another week so he sees how it feels.
Or is that very childish?
Talking calmly as a grown up has never worked and is met with silence. He never acknowledges me when i approach an important topic. Avoid any clarification. Doesnt discuss important matters. If i bring it up, calmly, "i m trying to cause an argument" and nagging.

It s frustrating that i cant be taken seriously.

Just mentioning all this, to ask whether you had this kind of response from exH too?

Bisous ⚘

I think you're doing the right thing in giving the dc time and space to discuss things dad says, and giving them room to make their own decisions without judging dad.
If you were putting dads decisions down then they might feel conflicted but it seems that they're drawing their own conclusions.

I think it’s more vital than ever that dc see a psychiatrist in light of this conversation. Poor kid! He’s already vulnerable with all this change and then this!!! Thank goodness he has you in his court, Jamais!

Hope the rest of your half term week has been okay with less dicking about from ExH, jamais.

@CyclingMumKingston please read "The verbally aggressive relationship " it describes exactly what you are talking about.

The rest of the week has been peaceful here from the point of view of contact with exh and the dc have been back on time.

No reply from exh to my email asking for a reply about dentist work for dc1 - I gave him a deadline of til Monday to reply so I
will wait and see.

Otherwise I have seen friends every early evening , never done so much socialising in my life!

Doing lots of yoga and meditation so sleeping better, and it was great catching up on work this week while things were quiet.

On a different note, have any of you noticed how many threads about sulking/silent treatment there are on mn?

I can't tell if I just notice them more because of my own situation or of there really are a lot more?

Or is the fact that coercive control is starting to be talked about in the media making more women realise they are in an abusive relationship?

Mind you, the pattern is usually (just as in my case):

• Women is upset about silent treatment and posts about one specific episode

-posters tell her that she is in abusive relationship

• she is shocked by this and minimizes and wonders what she has done to "trigger" him

• it turns out there's a whole load of other abusive behaviour which she has ignored or excused over the years

• the abusive h is generally seen in society as a "good dad and husband" ie steady job, does stuff with the dc, no cheating etc etc

After a while the poster disappears... and it feels like it is too much for them to deal with realising their relationship is abusive and that there is nothing they can do to make things better because THEY are not the problem