DIVORCING sulking H!

[jamaisjedors]

This is my fourth thread ! (Long-time mn-er.)

I initially started a thread reluctantly in December after my H ruined my birthday weekend (and 1st anniversay of my dad's death) by giving me the silent treatment all weekend to "punish me" for not being grateful enough for him coming away and buying me a present and a card.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking?msgid=84022238

Thanks to some amazing posters I realised that H's behaviour (which was not at all a one-off) was abusive and unacceptable.

I prepared to leave him and got plans in place but got "hoovered" back in by H with promises of joint counselling, individual counselling for him, and regular "date nights". Unfortunately none of that changed the dynamic in our relationship : 2nd thread :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3498886-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking-part2?msgid=85957683

I started a 3rd thread in May when H and I had decided to separate :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3580872-LEAVING-sulking-H?msgid=88239005

and that's when things got nightmarish.

As everyone on here pointed out, the most dangerous time for women is when they decide to leave an abusive partner.

In a nutshell, H went missing, had an acute psychotic episode, was admitted to a psychiatric facility and is still in there now.

Staff at the hospital warned me H could be dangerous for me and advised me to move out asap which I did, in fear for my life.

Things now are on a reasonably even keel 2 months on but now the battle is managing H who is continuing his abusive behaviour and also protecting the DC (12 & 14) - H is expecting to get joint custody.

Thanks again to all the wonderful posters who have advised me, informed me, cheered me on, shared their experiences and generally been an invaluable source of support over the last 7-8 months.

He doesn't believe in psychologists

The phrasing of this always makes chuckle. I know what the person intends it to mean but that's not what they're saying. Psychologists aren't tinkerelle fairies, you don't have to believe in them for them to exist

He doesn't believe in psychologists

he doesnt like what they say about him, more like. And how they dont agree with him regarding the boys

@NettleTea

He doesn't believe in psychologists

he doesnt like what they say about him, more like. And how they dont agree with him regarding the boys

Absolutely true. His own psychologist told me she thought he was lying to her a lot and he didn't trust the marriage counsellor who was also a psychologist.

And of course he outright blames (in an email) my therapist for me "breaking up our family".

If he opposes the kids seeing the psychologists there is nothing I can do, but it will be noted and reported to the judge in due course. It won't work in his favour, one of the questions she asked me was if the kids had support from psychologists!

And the social worker made that recommendation too, although I have nothing in writing because her report is confidential. She could probably produce it to the judge though if necessary.

@Coffeeandchocolate9

Yes the phrasing "doesn't believe in" is line but to me, directly translates exh's thought processes.

He "doesn't believe" that they are any use (to him anyway).

He originally said to friends that he had nothing to fear from a psychiatric or psychological assessment, despite the fact that the letter that he produced from his psychiatrist (discharge notes from the clinic) showed obsessive and obsessive compulsive personality, control issues and paranoia...

But in his mind or his version of events I am the one who is sick, who is a narcissist (this is on the hospital notes as a belief of his) and have needed "intensive psychotherapy " (his words) for the past 3 years.

He had me convinced for years that there was something wrong with me, and apparently this is absolutely classic in verbal abuse according to the Patricia Evan's book I read.

You must look back and wonder how you believed him for so long, he really is very "unwell" thank goodness your DC are away from him.

You must look back and wonder how you believed him for so long

I really do. I can't get over the change in myself.

I also can't believe I achieved so much professionally, have lots of lovely close friends and family who love me, and yet I still believed exh.

To be fair to myself, a lot of people at work or outside it have said how scarily (as in they were slightly scared of him) convincing and single minded and unyielding he is.

Those traits have taken him far professionally but not in terms of relationships.

I am now reassessing how I think about myself and finding out who I really am.

For example, exh is ridiculously organised and rigorous/precise.

Next to him I felt sloppy, messy, and disorganized.

Charting to a friend in Saturday, she said "oh yes, you always described yourself as disorganized but you never really seemed it".

I have realized that I'm actually pretty organised (both at work and outside it), I'm just not as rigid and inflexible as exh was, and his way of doing things was actually pathological.

This is exh to a T:

Obsessive–compulsive personality disorder (OCPD) is a personality disorder characterized by excessive concern with orderliness, perfectionism, attention to details, mental and interpersonal control, and a need for control over one's environment, which interferes with flexibility, openness to experience, and efficiency, as well as interpersonal relationships. Workaholism and miserliness are also seen often in those with this personality disorder. Persons affected with this disorder may find it hard to relax, always feeling that time is running out for their activities, and that more effort is needed to achieve their goals. They may plan their activities down to the minute – a manifestation of the compulsive tendency to keep control over their environment and to dislike unpredictable events as elements beyond their control. Wikipedia.

These traits always seemed admirable to me and something to aspire too but at the same time I used to try to calm some of this down and seek a happy medium, particularly for the dc.

You know I think you need to show that to your DC and explain how unhealthy it is and that is why Daddy has become so ill because he is not in control of you anymore.

Not in a nasty or blaming way but very much they need to understand that his thinking is so extreme he will never believe it accept the diagnosis from the professionals.

Great idea, they need to know that this is not a normal way of doing things and not strive towards it themselves.

That description sounds exactly like what you have explained. It would be helpful, I agree, for the kids to understand that behaviour like that which your ex has been diagnosed with, is a disorder, to see it explained so explicitly in black and white

I think it would also be good for your boys to gently challenge the underlying misogyny of your exH's attitude and behaviour - where everything he chose to do, whether work or hobbies was regarded as much more important than anything you had to do, including your job. You could explain that you realise now that you were wrong to try and twist yourself into knots trying to keep everything calm at home.

Bye the way did he ever sort out childcare for his day?

By the way did he ever sort out childcare for his day?

Of course not! . He reminded me that he only had visiting rights and that it was up to me to organise everything if he chose not to use his rights.

Our friend "Sam" offered when I saw him at my housewarming party on Saturday and the boys were happy for him to do it so he is driving the DC to activities and I will pick them up and take them to see me in action at work tonight - I am opening the yearly science fair for the city. It will do them good to see me "looking important" to undercut some of those attitudes picked up from exH about my job.

oh my
he is such a pompous self important arse

Sam sounds like a bloody rock

While Sam sounds amazing, DH also needs to be allowed to be the bad guy as well. He needs to take the fall and the responsibility for this refusal to adult up. I am pleased that you have this in writing.

Sam will see how dickish xh is being.
& xh will see that his dickish behaviour is visible to Sam.
This a good move I think
Great that DC can see how important Your job is...

OP I have followed your threads with horrified amazement that anyone could behave like this. Like others I think you have coped really well and safeguarded the interests of your DC at every step.

I also think it will be very good for your DC to see for themselves that you also have an important job and that you are respected in your work every bit as much as their DF is. I suspect that DH is not going to be pleased to see them come to that realisation!

Sam sounds like a bloody rock

And so do you.

Sam sounds like a bloody rock

And so do you.

yes, that is a given

Thanks all. I was prepared to let the dc miss their activities today to make a point about the dc's father not stepping up but it would have been churlish and silly not to accept when Sam offered.

I made it clear to Sam that it was exh's day and that he was not stepping up, but this is precisely why Sam offered, to help the DC (who he gets on great with) and to help me out too. NOT to help out exh.

Exh hasn't called Sam for weeks now, which is so so wrong considering how much of his life Sam put on hold and how he went above and beyond friendship to help exh out and visit him in hospital.

Unfortunately for exh he has alienated several friends and seems to be just hanging out with his 2 buddies from the clinic.. oh and his PhD students who look up to him and admire "Pr Narcissist "

I'm past feeling sorry for him now, with the amount of medication he is on and all that time spent "resting" in the clinic and psychiatric unit he should be able to at least take some kind of step back and drop his rage long enough to see past his own blinkered point of view.

But its impossible for him, every day confirms that I made the right decision, if he is capable of rejecting someone who was such a true friend to him (sat in psychiatric emergency unit with him til 2am, visited him every day for 2 months...) there is no way anything I could have done would have been enough to make him see that I was not his enemy.

On a different note, had a great evening at my opening tonight, the dc didn't come in the end because it went on too late but I have photos to show them of me presenting and I bigged it up a bit to them to make a point

Oh and in a chat with dc2 when he said he wasn't going to see his dad for w weeks now I said, yes it's a shame daddy chose to go abroad when he should have been seeing you.

Plus they realised today that I have cancelled a trip abroad (work) to be with them.

All good stuff.

EH shittiness is why you need to be honest with the DS about his diagnosis and how wrong and unhealthy his behaviour is. They will need to be aware so they can choose to emulate you and not him and not to pick a partner with those traits.

KOKO

I'm guessing that ex's paranoia means he can't trust Sam if Sam is still friends with you.

I feel sorry a bit sorry for Sam losing his old mate but I hope you win him in the end

Is it ethical to pal around with students. Although I guess they're all adults.
Shame about Sam but maybe he didn't agree with exh enough so was booted of his team.

Shame about Sam but maybe he didn't agree with exh enough so was booted of his team.

I'm guessing that ex's paranoia means he can't trust Sam if Sam is still friends with you.

This and this are totally true I believe. To be honest, Sam was my friend originally and then a mutual friend but they had already become quite distant in recent years, which it turns out is because exH called Sam's wife "hysterical" over a disagreement they had a few years back.

Sam has been very fair all along and tried to support us both - but it drives exH nuts that he is doing this.

For example Sam gave me their old lawnmower and dropped it round - when he told exH he was super cross with him.

I guess it's "you're with me or you're against me", plus the paranoia.

BTW just in case anyone is wondering, I am also very good friends with Sam's wife and adult daughter and there is nothing funny going on IYSWIM !

Paranoid people make you paranoid

Oh yes, Im waiting for the ex to bring out the affair with Sam accusations!

I think that it is also important for your boys to know that this is just how the ex is - his apparent rejection of them which is now going to be highlighted because of your 2 seperate lives, and was previously covered up by you picking up all the pieces previously, is not a rejection of them. It is a prioritising of himself, which is what he has always done. I think its really good for them to understand his diagnosis, so that its not seen as something personal. That this personality disorder also isnt hereditary, and that by leaving and setting new patterns, and being open about what and how things are happening in your home, and with their psychologists, means that they wont be vulnerable to repeating the same patterns.
This was sometyhing my partner found very helpful - he has a narcissistic father and he felt there was 'bad blood' - by seeing how we are very open about all this has allowed his son to be able to have the vocabulary to express himself and see through behaviour patterns, to actually be a kind and empathic human, has helped him alot to see through the nature vs nurture issue, and realise that although some traits may be genetic, abusive behaviour is not one of them.

Dear, dear Jamais,
I am amazed at how far you have come.
I m terrified that my husband might be paranoid.
When I read your post: "there is no way anything I could have done would have been enough to make him see that I was not his enemy", that sounds so true for me.
I hope you are doing well in finding yourself and your voice again after this ordeal.
DH tries to silence me in every possible way. He tells me when i should feel cold or warm. Today another huge sulk for an unreal reason.
He was very cross that i showed my DS a discounter supermarket i like (i said: look, this is a German supermarket, really nice food. Mummy likes it).
Husband was fuming as apparently i m trying to influence my son with my taste (?wow!). DH doesnt like LIDL but he is furious if i say i like it. He interprets it as undermining him. Like a personal attack .
I am sure it is also paranoia. There are so many episodes. I m feeling really trapped as we have 2 children under 3.
He wants me to believe i am the crazy one (and he has so far, but i m close to breaking point).
I always come back to your thread when i have a tough moment. Would you say it is better for your kids that you have left?
Sending gros bisous 😘tu es formidable
X

@CyclingMumKingston

That is such as a sad post to read, of course you and the DC would be better off and happier not living with someone that has such disordered beliefs.

Can you get some therapy for yourself?

Cyclingmumkingston how awful! You and the kids would be far happier by yourselves. What will happen if the kids grow up to have different likes/opinions to your hubby? 💐💐