DIVORCING sulking H!

[jamaisjedors]

This is my fourth thread ! (Long-time mn-er.)

I initially started a thread reluctantly in December after my H ruined my birthday weekend (and 1st anniversay of my dad's death) by giving me the silent treatment all weekend to "punish me" for not being grateful enough for him coming away and buying me a present and a card.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking?msgid=84022238

Thanks to some amazing posters I realised that H's behaviour (which was not at all a one-off) was abusive and unacceptable.

I prepared to leave him and got plans in place but got "hoovered" back in by H with promises of joint counselling, individual counselling for him, and regular "date nights". Unfortunately none of that changed the dynamic in our relationship : 2nd thread :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3498886-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking-part2?msgid=85957683

I started a 3rd thread in May when H and I had decided to separate :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3580872-LEAVING-sulking-H?msgid=88239005

and that's when things got nightmarish.

As everyone on here pointed out, the most dangerous time for women is when they decide to leave an abusive partner.

In a nutshell, H went missing, had an acute psychotic episode, was admitted to a psychiatric facility and is still in there now.

Staff at the hospital warned me H could be dangerous for me and advised me to move out asap which I did, in fear for my life.

Things now are on a reasonably even keel 2 months on but now the battle is managing H who is continuing his abusive behaviour and also protecting the DC (12 & 14) - H is expecting to get joint custody.

Thanks again to all the wonderful posters who have advised me, informed me, cheered me on, shared their experiences and generally been an invaluable source of support over the last 7-8 months.

He'll have been convincing to SIL because he truly believes it himself. In his mental state any email however calm and reasonable from you is harassment because it's unwanted by him and any response you make to him which isn't immediately submitting to his demands is abusive because he doesn't like what you are saying.

You were very wise to send the judgement to SIL. She is obviously hearing a very different version of events. Would it help to copy SIL into emails as well as Sam, so his family are kept in the loop regarding his delusions vs reality?

Could you copy sil into your emails too, or send her all your old emails.
Tbh I'd be telling her now you're even more worried if he's managing to convince someone else

Jamais, your should say exactly this ti SIL
"it doesn't matter what his family thinks of me but I don't think it's good for any of us if exH is encouraged in his role as "victim" so it's better people have a picture of what is paranoia and what is true so that his own family can look out for warning signs in the future of any relapse."

Yes indeed Mix56

Possibly add in about this delusion about him feeling persecuted by emails and I've sent them to you so you can judge for yourself.

Have u or the children heard from him yet?

We have agreed with SIL to call each other in a couple of weeks when things are quite.

I have already forwarded a couple of emails to her in the past, for example when I laid out to exh my reservations about joint custody back in June and a few other times.

I will offer to forward her any others when we chat but I think she's been reassured by "Sam".

You are right though that I will forward any "off the rails ones" like the one where he accuses me of harassment with my emails prior and subsequent to it.

Finally got a couple of emails from exh today, one through work about him transferring child benefits to me, and one saying he agrees to the dcs activities and that he quit not be taking the dc tomorrow as per the judge's decision.

Civil and to the point. Long may it last!!!

Hasny stooped me coming back yup with eczema though although each time my reaction us a bit more under control.

I did a meditation when I got home because I could feel I was getting edgy and tense.

Today I read and contributed to a thread on mn about a woman whose husband sounds very similar to my exH. It brought back to me again how on edge I was all the time in anticipation of his moods and sulks...

It's like when there is constant background noise and then it stops.. you have the ringing in your ears but the relief is unbelievable!!!

Ex on the phone to the dc now, unfortunately ds2 was listening to music in his phone so saw a message from his dad because otherwise I have initiated a no devices after 9pm rule...

I am so pleased he is being civil! Maybe he's finally had a wake up call to his behaviour with the judges decision

I hope you're feeling better soon

Maybe plug them in in the kitchen on mute at 9 pm. Maybe yours too?

@PrayingandHoping Maybe he's finally had a wake up call to his behaviour with the judges decision... maybe ! My lawyer said he might but I sincerely doubt it.

He has however emailed me to get my bank details for the maintenance.

I'm not surprised, he respects the law and is very detail-oriented so will want this sorted asap.

I've emailed back with a few details about upcoming psychologist's appointments (they want to see him, he is putting off going) and laid out the dates for the holidays as I understand them (October and Christmas) and asked him to confirm by the end of the week so I'm not left hanging.

I have a feeling he will be skipping next week's Wednesday visit because he's going abroad again for work, but he hasn't officially confirmed it to me yet. He'll probably do it last minute again because the dates were in a letter he sent me in July - but I have had no confirmation since then that he is/isn't going. I need to get arrangements in place for the DC again because I have a work thing early evening.

@mankyfourthtoe normally that's what we do, we have a "charging station" set up downstairs in the spare room and everyone puts their phone there to charge at 9pm. I need to enforce the mute thing - for all of us - but last night I was catching up with the threads when his notification popped up about his email - not sure why my 'rules" about the separate folder aren't working all the time.

I would be emailing him, saying he is responsible fir his children on Wednesday, if he is going away as per his former correspondence indicates, he will have to make alternative arrangements as you have a job.
I know this means on this occasion you are taking the mental load, & it nay be deliberate in his part. But if you just cancel your work commitments every time he doesn't that sets a precedent & tells Dss his job is more important than yours. You are the subordinate

I think it his worth raising the Wednesday issue at this point, maybe via your lawyer or with their advice. Otherwise the default position will be you pick up his slack. And you might as well stay married. Plus it remains an area of control. Not to mention how it works going forward if the DC are staying with him at some point after this year.

In terms of talking to the DC it is an opportunity for a wider discussion on sexism and misogyny at a societal level and how it impacts on women and girls!

Both posters above very much echoed the points I made a few days ago about raising the issue of you not being expected to pick up the slack for when he lets his DC down at the last moment during his days! Your DC should be made aware that the onus is on their father to prioritise them or make other arrangements when it is his access time. They and your XH to learn that your time is just as valuable as his. He cannot emotionally manipulate them on the one hand for more access, or indeed 50/50 if he doesn't actually do the parenting!

It will certainly show how committed (or uncommitted) he is, if he continues to put work first and expects you to pick up the slack, without as much as a by-your-leave.
It will be a bit of an eye opener to the children, considering that he was touting for 50/50 care of them.
I would think long and hard jamais, in your shoes, about the best way to handle this, if he does continue to assume that you can just sort things while he goes on his merry way.

It's all very well saying Ex ought to prioritise the children when it's his day, but realistically what is Janais to do, when he doesn't?
The children will still need care, and if their father isn't doing it and hasn't arranged for any acceptable alternative care, someone else (ie Jamais) has to take over.

She may well have to but that doesn't mean she shouldn't raise it with both XH and note it for future reference. If he wants 50:50 care or even a lesser amount he needs to be able to arrange his life to reflect that. Whether by organising his life differently or organising care His presumption is she will pick up the slack as always.

@Catmaiden The point being addressed by a few posters, including myself, is about making it clear to the DC that their father needs to step up to his parental role on his days, especially when he is trying to manipulate them and moans about not getting 50/50 custody. Jamais has always had to carry the slack. However, now they are separated, everyone has to acknowledge that her Ex’ job and time is not more valuable than hers, which has already become entrenched in even her sons’ mind. It’s not so much about the actual practicalities but to tackle an inherent misogynistic mindset that their father had begun indoctrinating them with. Every single time, their father fails to prioritise them and wastes an opportunity to spend time with them on his court appointed days, this is on him and it builds up a pattern. This is not about badmouthing their father but nips any vilification of OP by their highly manipulative father in the bud. The kids are old enough to recognise the utter hypocrisy of their father and he must not be allowed to skewer and twist facts to emerge as a martyr and wronged father. It discredits his claims that he is so desperate to spend time with them if he cannot even be bothered to see them on the days he has been allocated.

I know all that, of course! And yes of course it's just yet more evidence that he really doesn't care very much and it's mostly about control and appearences, but at the end of the day it WILL be Jamais who wil have to do it, if he won't step up as a Co-parent

And that needs to be said and recognised as a pattern.
Ex will just bugger off and do his "Big Important Job" stuff, while someone (ie probably Jamais ) will have to yet again pick up the pieces. Even though Jamais, too, has a Big Important Job.
It's not right and it's not OK and yes it's patriarchy and misogyny in action

Totally agree that Daddy's big important job needs to be put into the context of mummy's big important job.

I think the DC know that my job is important, but I do such a good job of "juggling" (stupid stereotype but apt here) that I make it look easy because I don't want them to grow up thinking that my job is more important then them to me.

I have told them and exH that I'm not available to look after the DC next Wednesday after school and can't drive them to their activities because of prior work commitments. I have said I will wait to hear from him about what arrangements he suggests for that day. He also needs to tell the DC what he plans - which will be nothing - he hinted at that in his last email saying they will have to miss their activities if I can't take them.

It annoys me that the DC will therefore sit at home at lunchtime and all afternoon alone because their dad won't ask a friend for a favour to drive the DC to their activities. But I already had to ask friends to help out this week so I'm not doing it again on his time - I think the truth is that he has noone to ask.

His latest email was surprisingly civil and he agrees on all my proposals for holiday dates and has already transferred the money for maintenance for Octobre plus 3 days in September.

This is absolutely typical of him - sticking to the letter of the law - no payment until he is forced to (last 5 months) but punctual and precise to a T when it is enforced.

He's trying to back out of paying half the psychologist's fees, but I have reminded him that this is written into the judge's decision. Stupid thing to quarrel about, consulting his lawyer (which he claims to have done) will cost more than just coughing up BUT IT'S THE PRINCIPLE OF THE THING!!!

Hopefully now that a lot of details are sorted out through these last couple of civil emails, there won't be any more need for communication for a while.

Last night the DCs said they had asked to take the computer from dad's/home and he said he was waiting for the list of what I had taken from the house to settle up on furniture.

I told them I sent him the list 6 weeks ago so I don't know why he is stalling and being difficult but that if he refuses to hand over the DC's computer (he already has 2 of his own) then I will buy another one.

What an arse.
I'd just repeat whatever he says about his trip when you talk about your work. 'Very important, cant be missed' but obviously when you're talking about yours it'll have your solution for the problem.
He'll just presume you're stepping in.

I know you're keeping a record of how many days he'll be missing, could that go on the shared calendar so exh can see it too. As tbh you really do want him to step up for the boys.

And I'd re send him him the info he wants, making it obvious he's already had it. And that he's now impacting on the boys with the withholding of the computer, or offer the take it out of the joint account he lives so much.

Sorry if that doesn't make sense, not feeling well.

As well as resending the list I would include the x weeks of maintenance for all the time you have had to fund the DC at your sole expense..

My lawyer has just confirmed that the solicitor designated by court (eXH asked for this, and is going to have to pay for it) will also make a proposition concerning the furniture.

I will now send that list of what I have taken and what I want to take to this solicitor when he contacts me.

Re: maintenance for the period before now - I already sent an email to exH about this, asking him to make him an offer.

He ignored it.

That's fine, because my solicitor is saying that all finances were in fact joint up until the date of the separation (the judge's decision last week) so in fact even if exH wasn't paying me directly, any money I was using, be it in my "own" account or the joint account, was property of the "community" (ie the married couple).

Actually the lack of maintenance works in favour of that because there is no reason for him to pay me back if I was using joint funds.

We settle up based on the total amount in ALL accounts on the date of the separation.

Which means the money I spent to equip the house, pay rent and deposit, clothe and feed the kids was in fact joint money.

EXH will try to argue that we kept separate accounts from the date I left the house but in that case, he will definitely need to pay me maintenance, at the rate fixed by the judge for the whole of that period.

I actually don't mind either way, which gives me an advantage in the financial negotiation according to my solicitor - I can be seen to be giving a concession when in fact I'm not bothered.

We'll see what the solicitor comes up with as a proposal for a "fair" split of assets - if we disagree with his proposal it goes to the judge.

@mankyfourthtoe hope you feel better soon.