DIVORCING sulking H!

[jamaisjedors]

This is my fourth thread ! (Long-time mn-er.)

I initially started a thread reluctantly in December after my H ruined my birthday weekend (and 1st anniversay of my dad's death) by giving me the silent treatment all weekend to "punish me" for not being grateful enough for him coming away and buying me a present and a card.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking?msgid=84022238

Thanks to some amazing posters I realised that H's behaviour (which was not at all a one-off) was abusive and unacceptable.

I prepared to leave him and got plans in place but got "hoovered" back in by H with promises of joint counselling, individual counselling for him, and regular "date nights". Unfortunately none of that changed the dynamic in our relationship : 2nd thread :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3498886-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking-part2?msgid=85957683

I started a 3rd thread in May when H and I had decided to separate :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3580872-LEAVING-sulking-H?msgid=88239005

and that's when things got nightmarish.

As everyone on here pointed out, the most dangerous time for women is when they decide to leave an abusive partner.

In a nutshell, H went missing, had an acute psychotic episode, was admitted to a psychiatric facility and is still in there now.

Staff at the hospital warned me H could be dangerous for me and advised me to move out asap which I did, in fear for my life.

Things now are on a reasonably even keel 2 months on but now the battle is managing H who is continuing his abusive behaviour and also protecting the DC (12 & 14) - H is expecting to get joint custody.

Thanks again to all the wonderful posters who have advised me, informed me, cheered me on, shared their experiences and generally been an invaluable source of support over the last 7-8 months.

Cheers, Jamais
To Happy Days! 🥂

That's fab news! Enjoy x

A quiet week, to 'exing' H and gin. Much to celebrate!

Cheers!

You have come so far Jamais from your early, uncertain threads - you deserve lots of

Cheers to you, Jamais 🥂🥂🥂*
*
When I read your posts now I can hardly reconcile them with your first thread. You have grown, in so many amazing ways. You should be very proud of yourself.

I was delighted to see your nomination for the gin award. Well deserved. Well done. 💖

God yes, I'll have to have a read of them again sometime soon, I probably won't recognise myself.

Tonight was hard because the DC brought up wanting 50/50 custody again and still don't understand why it's not possible - they are worried about the judge's decision.

In the end I explained to DC1 that I would love them to be able to have what they want (I really mean this) and as much time as they want with their dad.

Both DC brought up again that their dad's psychiatrist said that there was a very low risk of him having another psychotic episode and that the medecine was only preventive, and that it could have just as easily have been ME that had the episode.

At this I had to point out that that's not true, because Dad and I went through the same stressful situation and I DID NOT CRACK whereas he did. The DS tried saying that dad has a lot of work stuff too, and I made it clear that I do too (I have a very "high powered" job at the moment and have done for about 4-5 years).

I was able to say that in fact, yes their dad did have a tendancy to work too much and not take any time to relax and slow down, and that I had been trying to get him to do so for years but he wouldn't listen to me.

Then I said that if their dad IS now taking time to do other things (apparantly he has bought... wait for it... a very expensive racing bike) that's great, but back in July, noone knew whether he could even go back to work and whether he would keep taking his treatment and whether he would be able to slow down enough to get well.

And we still don't know that, as far as I can see he is throwing himself back into work like the workaholic he has always been.

I also said to DS1 (now 15) that the problem was that because their dad is still so angry with me, it's not possible to make arrangements or trust him to ask for help if he needs it.

I explained that if we put in place 50/50 custody now, and their dad is not coping, there is no way he will call me and ask for help. DS agreed this was true.

I also explained that if it was their week with dad, and the DC call me to say their dad was acting weird, he could call the police on me, and I said that the way he is behaving now, I don't doubt that he would.

DS1 said that he could then testify that they did call me but I said that might not be enough for the police to listen to if Daddy told them he was fine.

I said ideally we could have started gradually building up contact when exH came out of hospital, but that right from the first day, their dad was insisting on having them on his own and not wanting any help, even from family. I told him that exH had even said he wanted them to stay the night he left the clinic and then for 3 weeks alone in the summer.

Then I asked DS1 if he thought that if I had been in a psychiatric hospital for 9 weeks, whether I would immediately be able to take care of the DC on my own for long periods.

DS1 seemed to start to get it, despite the conflicting information.

He said that maybe if the judge DOES give me full custody to start with, their dad might be a bit more reasonable about considering gradually building up the contact time to overnights etc.

I think he has a good point (and he knows his dad!). At the moment exH thinks he is totally well, and that I am stopping him seeing his kids as some kind of vicious revenge.

If the judge makes a ruling which is not 50/50, he will have to accept that she has heard both sides, and is making a decision from a place of experience. He won't like it, and he'll probably appeal but he will have to hear it then and it can't be all me.

I said to DS1 that the judge is maybe going to ask for a psychiatric expert to give their opinion so that we are clearer about the situation.

Perhaps the psychiatrist seeing exH is now saying that things are going well, but back in July, his letter said that exH was extremely fragile (I said this to DS1 too).

Anyway, to go back to my original point, tonight was hard, I wondered once again whether I have done the right thing in all of this, but I am not sobbing in bed, and I still feel pretty sure of myself even if it's hard for the DC to get it.

There will be more explaining to do down the line, but I can handle it.

I see that for the moment the DC are confused, but they don't seem to "hate" me for "keeping them away from daddy", even if they are missing him and hoping to spend more time with him.

Onwards and upwards eh?

Have you asked them they need it to be 50:50 when they can speak the Ex when they want in in the evenings, and they get to stay with him regularly and over time it will be more than it is now?

I do wonder if it's Ex going on and on about it and they want desperately want 50:50 to appease him?

So chuffed for you OP, been watching your posts from the beginning. I think that your sense and strength will have helped so many people who lurk on here.

Well done on winning the gin. I thought MN had ruled out those of us who lived outside the UK but seems not.

It sounds like he is badgering them with this.
Prepping for the judge.

They will get it, it’s hard but they will get it. Of course, they’re confused, everything happened so quickly for them. You’re doing so brilliantly coping with all problems and supporting DC as well. (I was reading your threads from the start)
Would exH really accept judge’s decision? He probably would always think that he’s totally well and you’re stopping him seeing kids. But your DC will probably find it easier to accept arrangements after judge’s decision. At the moment it’s still difficult for them and looks like a choice between your opinion and their Dad’s opinion. They would benefit from knowing there is outside opinion of someone who listened both sides and looked into all facts.

I think you did the right thing, OP. Nothing is worse for children (especially your kids ages) having to fill in the blanks themselves. If you treat them like the intelligent humans they are and answer their questions in an honest and age-appropriate way, they can cope so much better with the truth than anything their imagination (and their father) will throw at them. They obviously trust you to give them an honest version of events, and that’s going to help you navigate your relationship with them through the very fun hormonal years.

At the moment exH thinks he is totally well, and that I am stopping him seeing his kids as some kind of vicious revenge. because this is exactly what he would do to you - but his illness has got in the way and not worked out how he thought it would.

I do wonder if it's Ex going on and on about it and they want desperately want 50:50 to appease him? Remember if you are not there doing all the appeasing - someone else has to and it'll be your DC - until he finds another woman to do it - which although hard for you - is likely to take a lot of the pressure off.

Keep looking after yourself in small ways to maintain your wide point of view. Be like a duck - everything he says/does falls off you until you are ready to think about it (only if it's absolutely necessary & at the time that you decide you want to)

Great stuff with handling what the DC are saying - which to me sounds a lot like him - remember you don't have to appease them either all the time. Keep practicing leaving appeasing jamais behind until she is long gone. (even if she sneaks back in from time to time.) Bravo.

" I'd love it if dd was well enough to have 50/50 and I'd know that you were well looked after, but if he wasn't feeling great he wouldn't admit it and you might be in danger if he's not thinking straight. We need to give him time, to get used to the new arrangement, to get used to being back at work, to get used to parenting you alone, this all needs time, and when he's happy, you're happy, I'm happy and the judge is happy I hope we can have 50/50 and you two can just move between your homes"

Emphasise to them that whatever the judge rules isn't set in stone for the rest of their lives (they are probably worried that it will be permanent.) If he continues to be stable and responsible then the contact can and will be increased over time. Keep telling them that it's not about him versus you, it's about keeping the boys safe.

I'd love it if dd was well enough to have 50/50 and I'd know that you were well looked after, but if he wasn't feeling great he wouldn't admit it and you might be in danger if he's not thinking straight. We need to give him time, to get used to the new arrangement, to get used to being back at work, to get used to parenting you alone, this all needs time, and when he's happy, you're happy, I'm happy and the judge is happy I hope we can have 50/50 and you two can just move between your homes"

Emphasise to them that whatever the judge rules isn't set in stone for the rest of their lives (they are probably worried that it will be permanent.) If he continues to be stable and responsible then the contact can and will be increased over time.

This is pretty much exactly what I told the DS last night ! You lot are mind readers (or maybe I'm just getting better at saying the right thing?)!

And yes Keep practicing leaving appeasing jamais behind until she is long gone. (even if she sneaks back in from time to time.)

This I definitely do need to pratice.

You could also mention to the boys that one of the biggest problems with exH's mental health problems is that his condition means that he doesn't realise when is is actually ill until it is too late and police/emergency services have to get involved. That a few months ago he didn't think he was ill either, he didn't seek medical help until forced to do so. The fact that he is pushing for everything to rapidly go back to the way he wants it means that he is still not really addressing the issues that caused the breakdown.

I would also emphasise to the boys that they are not responsible for your exH's health or happiness. They may feel worried about not going along with what he wants and upsetting him as exH has told everyone that his psychotic episode was caused by "stress".

Well done on the gin! And everything else.

It won't be surprising if as well as feeling worried/ responsible for their Dad your DC are also ( unknowingly) doing a bit of appeasing themselves. Your XH has been controlling the dynamic/ narrative for years. It would be strange if it didn't impact on you all. Just something to bear in mind possibly.

Yes, it does sound very much like the boys' insistence that they want 50/50 is driven partly by anxiety about upsetting their dad and being seen as 'fair'.
Like all dcs, they probably have a strong sense of justice. Would they take on board that fair doesn't always mean the same? (Like your boys might have different levels of freedom or responsibility because their ages are different.) What is fair for you and their dad must take into account your different situations.
They are not a prize to be split in half between you and their dad. It isn't fair for them to be responsible for their dad's mental health. It isn't fair for them to feel guilty about not keeping their parents happy. So, the judge has to decide what is fair for them . They don't have to decide.

There's a pic on the internet about three boys of different heights trying to see over a fence. If your fair and give each boys a box, only two children can see over.
Give the smallest boy two boxes and the medium bit one box and everyone can see.

In my head that explains to the boys that just being fair (50/50) doesn't always solve the problem.

Sorry if that's gibberish and doesn't link to you.

.

Just a thought, might work, might not... What about trying to compartmentalise issues all around.

So, for example, say it's Friday night, tonight no talk of judges, custody, ex or anything. Do something everyone will enjoy, nice meal out, takeaway, movie whatever. And set aside a time over the weekend, a limited time to thrash out whatever his latest stuff is, that is worrying the children.
He is still managing to control the narrative so maybe tying this down to certain times rather than it being all-consuming might help.

Hope you're are having a good w/e with the boys

@Mix56 we are doing great thanks! How are you?

We went to a party last night and we are having a duvet day today although the weather is so great we might venture out for a walk later.

Generally feeling good and every day is easier - it's actually astonishing how much easier life is without ex H, I had fun at the party and didn't feel alone at all, and I mentioned "my ex" a few times which felt weird but good.

I just got the book " The verbally abusive relationship " on kindle unlimited. Someone on here recommended it and I kind of discounted it because exH never yelled at me or insulted me directly or overtly.

But actually the book is totally spot on about the ways he used denial, "crazymaking" and other techniques to gain or keep power over me.

It has interesting insights into the "victim's " mindset, which was totally me - living in hope, always bring optimistic, always hoping that if Exh just understood how much he was hurting me he would apologise or stop...

I was thinking that maybe we need a sticky thread with resources on abusive relationships with some extracts from Lindy Bancroft and also this book as well as other gems of advice from my threads and others threads.

I know there are some around do will check out what exists and then maybe some of you would be up for compiling resources for less obvious abusive relationships where it's not as "simple" as "he hits me".

I feel like all the resources were out there all along but I still stayed in this relationship for 23 years even though the warning signs were there at the start.

I would love it if other women could feel the joy and lightness that I feel now that I am in control of my own life and not living with that sick feeling in my stomach.

I went back to the town near where we used to live and the whole time I felt that familiar edgy sick guarded feeling.

I'm already a lot less jumpy than I used to be and the eczema I have is healing up.

Hope you are all having a lovely Sunday.