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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Brave babes are still here: sping / summer / autumn / winter There is always someone around

999 replies

venusandmars · 27/06/2019 20:54

This topic had being going for years and years and years. Maybe almost as long as some people have been struggling with drinking.

We are still here. Supporting, encouraging, helping. Never judging, never minimising our problems.

If you want to catch up, our last thread is HERE

And if you want to follow everything from the start, the very first thread from 9 years ago is RIGHT HERE

You can join in anytime. Everyone is welcome. Whether you are trying to cut down, abstain completely , or are simply acknowledging that you might have a problem... Post what you want.

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17
Craftycorvid · 16/08/2019 07:51

JK. Well, I have woken up with the ‘what the hell did I do/say?’ worry a few times, yes! But the Fear is more a horrendous free-floating anxiety that hits about 3 in the morning. I still wake up worrying about normal and quite specific things but the whole alcohol-induced existential dread seems to have gone.

NellNorth · 16/08/2019 09:00

Morning Everyone,
I’m on day 20, for the third and final time. I’ve jumped on and off the bus a few times, and now, enough is enough.
I first stopped in Feb 2016 ( reading Alan Carr), and drifted back to ‘moderating’, and was back up to full throttle by our summer holiday that June.

I stopped on Jan 1 2018, and was dry until a skiing holiday in Feb, 6 weeks later, and then moderated again, by not drinking on nights out, not drinking spirits, not drinking alone, crossing my fingers, blocking my ears, and was back up to 60ish units a week by May.

Moderation doesn’t work for me, EVER, and what is really scary is how long it takes me to eventually find the courage again, to stop again.

So, I’ve read Jason Vale, re read Annie Grace, and am currently reading Alcohol Explained by William Porter. I’ve just read the first brilliantly inspirational thread of the Babes, as well as all my old posts, under various names, in various places, which are like a diary for me!

I live outside Glasgow, so there are a huge number of AA meetings available to me. I’ve never been before, but I need to do things differently this time, so that it will stick. So that I will stick. One of the meetings is a Beginners one, so hopefully that will be a good fit. I’m a right old atheist though, so we’ll see how it goes.
There is also a Smart recovery meeting fairly nearby, which I might try too. When the kids go back to school next week, I’ll give it a go. I can only do day time meetings, as DH works away.

All the books I’ve read have really sorted out my thinking about booze- I very much relish the prospect of a clean life, and all the hope it brings. My dad was a big drinker, and I hated how aggressive and unpleasant and selfish he was. I had a breakthrough when reading This Naked Mind, when she talked about cognitive dissonance - when your mind is contradicting itself, holding two opposing views.
I hated that my Dad was drunk in front of us, always putting his need to drink first, and vowed not to be like him, and here I was, drinking wine almost every night, in front of my own, longed for and loved children.
The fucking guilt, the self loathing. The out and out hypocrisy of it all. No wonder I feel such peace and joy now. I’m so proud of myself, and that tastes better than any wine.
I’m putting the Fuckit bucket in the bin, and I’m putting on my New Me cape instead!!

I’ll now go and reread this current thread, so that I can contribute properly, rather than wittering on endlessly about me, myself and I !!
I have to say, when it seemed that you didn’t know what the Fear was JK, I thought, what’s she doing here?? If I could drink without the crashing anxiety and regret and heebeegeebies < technical term>, I’d never have stopped!

Craftycorvid · 16/08/2019 09:17

Really inspirational post Nellnorth. I too wonder about that whole ‘higher power’ aspect of AA, and I guess it’s different for everyone. I’ve never done AA but I guess my ‘higher power’ is being connected to the natural world and its life force (old hippy alert! Grin)

marlu · 16/08/2019 09:51

Welcome (back) NellNorth. Well done on your success so far!

I'm with you Crafty about the 'higher power' being the natural world (for me it is the 'universal power'). I've never been to AA either but it sounds really interesting and I'm tempted to give it a try.

JK I like the idea of shandies. I've never tried one but I know they have been around a long time as I remember my grandmother drinking them. Is it only beer and lemonade 50/50 or are there any other variations? I'm always on the lookout for interesting AF or low alcohol drinks.

LilyRose88 · 16/08/2019 13:35

NellNorth a lot of what you said has resonated with me. My parents didn't drink though, but apparently my paternal grandmother was an alcoholic (according to my Mum although strongly denied by my Dad!)

Crafty I recognise that awful anxiety and paranoia. It would hit me around 3am, like you, and would stay with me for most of the next day. I am not missing it at all. I also got awful hangovers, with really bad headaches and a sore stomach (probably the acidic quality of the white wine I used to drink).

I am doing AA but haven't read any books about alcoholism. I was a bit put off by all the references to God as I am an atheist, but some of the AA members have spoken to me about finding an alternative higher power - maybe nature or even the power of the AA group. I am on day 20 AF and still feeling optimistic about it all. I am taking one day at a time though, as it is quite a big stretch to think about never drinking again in my life.

I am taking my elderly cat to the vet this afternoon as I think she has come to the end of her best life, and normally I would end up drinking a bottle of wine after something like that. I am planning to buy myself a nice meal or slice of cake in M&S on the way home instead.

Craftycorvid · 16/08/2019 15:58

Look after yourself, Lilyrose that’s a hard journey to make with a loved pet. Flowers

venusandmars · 16/08/2019 16:17

LilyRose that's tough.

I'm often reminded of how our pets live an exuberant life without recourse to any artificial stimulant.... The way a dog wags its tail, the way a cat purrs....

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aliasjoey · 16/08/2019 21:54

Hey Babes waves

old long-time lurked (some of you may remember me, I certainly remember some of you! )

ma sorry to hear about your DD, hope everything is okay with you (any more news on midget Obama sailor?

venus you are AMAZING to still be driving the Bus after all this time, and always ready with support and advice! Honestly, you're WonderWoman!

venusandmars · 16/08/2019 22:35

Oh wow alias delighted to see you...

There is nothing remarkable about what I do here, what is amazing is each and every person who posts on here, taking some kind of step in the right direction.

For some it's a HUGE leap into total sobriety, for others it's a slow, slow, slow, climb. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how each of us approach this. The only thing that matters is that we are here, and aware.

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aliasname · 16/08/2019 23:06

venus listen to me young lady, I say you're amazing & I bet I'm not the only one who thinks so! Just stop with the modesty and give yourself a gold star will you?!

NellNorth · 17/08/2019 09:26

Oh LilyRose, I’m so sorry to hear about your cat. My old cat, Mary-Margaret (she was a Catholic cat), went to sleep on my lap, and I found it really peaceful - I hope everything went ok for you x. If you are in need of cake, M&S have the most delicious passion fruit,fresh cream three layer sponge in their fresh section, which I highly recommend.
Thank you for the welcome everybody - I really appreciate it.
I will have to get my head around the ‘higher power’ thing Crafty, in some way that works for me. I had an entirely Catholic upbringing and education, and one really damaging relationship with a born again Christian, so I’m, as well as being a total non believer, actually ( in my own head), quite antagonistic to people of faith.
But, I re read the first thread, which Venus first appeared on, and MIFLAW, who was an old hand at AA, was a total rock on that thread - he has really inspired me- they all really inspired me-That thread is 9 years old, and maybe you’re long gone, but thank you.

I don’t know a single person in my vicinity who has struggled with booze, and successfully stopped. Each time I’ve stopped drinking, I’ve only ever met with perplexed “Why?” “You’re fine, have a drink” “you don’t drink as much as ...” I really need to meet people who take my need for sobriety seriously, and take their own sobriety seriously, because I always drift back to booze. And booze makes me so depressed. Even though I’ve been in tears writing this last paragraph, that low level, shitty feeling, that is usually my constant companion, has really lifted, in the 3 weeks that I’ve been off it.
I know I’m in the Pink Cloud now, all happy and pleased with myself, but I need to have stuff in place for when it all gets a bit hum drum.

Anyhoo, I’m off to a big birthday party tonight- I’m bringing canapés, which I’ll help serve, which will be good for sober mingling. I love the Mexican ginger and lime cordial from Sainsbury’s, so I’ll bring a bottle to jazz up the sparkling water.
Bon Weekend, everyone.

MintToBee · 17/08/2019 14:45

Afternoon you wonderful lot.
Yesterday we went stealth boast to see The Cure in Glasgow. It was absolutely amazing. But so many people were hammered by the end of the first support band. What a waste of a day. Paying to see an amazing band who haven't been in Scotland for 27 years only to be unconscious in the mud before even seeing them! It made me really glad I don't do that anymore.
Ma Sorry to hear about the wedding. Is there no coming back?
lilyrose Having to take your cat to the vets is the last act of love you can give. Always remember that. Its never easy but just think what a great life she had with you. Much love ❤

aliasname · 17/08/2019 21:39

Sorry its been so long since I was on the Bus. Its good to see so many new people & I hope some of the old-timers are doing okay.

I nearly manage to quit drinking, I can moderate quite well... but then something happens and I fall off the wagon. I feel really pathetic for letting things get to me but I just don't know how to solve my problem.

It sounds so stupid, I don't even want to come out and admit it. And even if I did admit it I still have no idea how how to fix it.

Okay. I'm lonely. I have no friends.

There, you know my dirty little secret. I'm off to drink and try and forget.

venusandmars · 17/08/2019 22:12

alias that does sound tough. And it somehow always appears that other people have a great set of friends, or a great and loving family circle.

I had 2 longstanding friends. One had a massive brain haemorrhage (she has survived but she's not the same 'person' if that makes sense), and the other friend moved to Asia - a great job, a new life, closer to her dd in Australia. I miss her dreadfully.

But I know that alcohol is not any good as a substitute friend. It has no warmth, no truth, no love. Despite that, there are countless evenings when alcohol and I have settled in together... But at the end of the day I always needed it more than it needed me. It was never going to be an equal partnership..

Take care alias Flowers

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Craftycorvid · 17/08/2019 22:36

I can only echo what venus has said so beautifully, and wish you well, alias

JK1773 · 17/08/2019 22:42

marlu mine are 50/50 lager and lemonade. And I only have a couple. I did drink quite a bit last night out with friends but probably 2-3 drinks less that I usually would. No alcohol today at all. Looking forward to a relaxing hangover free Sunday

aliasname · 17/08/2019 22:47

Thanks venus I appreciate that. Sorry for sounding so full of self-pity. You're right, alcohol is not a good substitute but sometimes I feel so down.

I don't know why I've struggled to find/maintain friendships... I have social anxiety, but do manage to make small talk. In the past I've also used alcohol to help get over the initial shyness - and there are no doubt times when people have thought I was just an obnoxious drunk. But I haven't been massively pissed or made a spectacle of myself for years.

So I'm left wondering if its just my personality or what. I've tried all the usual hobbies and groups but even if I get on with people, it never goes any further.

I don't expect putting-the-world-to-rights long into the night conversations, just an occasional coffee/ text message.

LilyRose88 · 18/08/2019 10:11

Venus a very perceptive post about alcohol. It is a false friend.

I am missing my little cat and the other cat is walking around looking for her. It is very sad but I know I did the right thing. I went out for a run yesterday with a friend and my eldest daughter is driving down to see me later today. I went to an AA meeting last night and arrived late as I had got the time wrong! No one minded though and I was welcomed.

Day 22 AF for me. I suspect I am still in the honeymoon period and further down the line day 122 may be more challenging. I know from previous times when I have stopped drinking that I tend to get cocky and think that I clearly am not an alcoholic if I can give up easily, and I then start to drink again. I think AA will help keep me on track this time.

9CirclesOfOhWell · 18/08/2019 15:01

Hi everyone - hope it’s ok to join! Long-time lurker on MN, though have never posted - actually found this thread via a mention elsewhere and thought I’d stop by. I knocked alcohol on the head around three months ago, deciding I’d had enough of waking up feeling like death with gaps in my memory from the night before. I’ve not had a drink since 19th May but now find myself at a bit of a crossroads... when I took the decision to go AF it was to kick start some weight loss, as I knew damn well that the wine I was consuming was the main culprit. I’ve stuck at it, and it’s worked - I’ve had the motivator of training for a particular thing and I’m also very fortunate to have a supportive husband and friends. I’ve had the same sugar cravings that others have mentioned and so decided to satisfy those with some posh chocolates so that I (hopefully!) wouldn’t overeat as they’re so rich.

Anyhow - my crossroads. The event I’ve been training for is nearly here and it also happens to coincide with our wedding anniversary. When I went AF three months ago, I never envisaged going completely teetotal - that was never the plan. But, I find myself getting mild anxiety when I think about having a drink again! What I’d like to do is have a totally different approach to alcohol, be one of those people who isn’t fussed either way; but I don’t know if I can do that - the last thing I want to do at this point is slide back to my old ways where the default was to drink to get drunk as fast as possible, rinse and repeat. Does anyone have any tips around that idea?

venusandmars · 18/08/2019 22:54

Hi 9Circles welcome, and glad you've de-lurked.

If you're appreciating your life without alcohol, then why go back to it? Is it social pressure, expectation, the taste of champagne, or is it a quiet longing for that heady 'just-about-drunk' feeling (you know the elusive one that lasts for an instant before tipping over into the boring drunk / crazy drunk / desperate for another drunk). I think it's worth examining what's pressing our buttons.

My dp didn't want me to have an alcohol problem, he wanted to share a bottle of red with a nice meal. I didn't do that kind of sharing, or the stopping after one bottle. For me, celebrating with ice-cold soda water feels great. I celebrated a wedding recently with 'Nosecco' (Asda's no alcohol version of fizz) and that was lovely. But a glass of the real stuff still triggers me into wanting 'just one more'...

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marlu · 20/08/2019 06:43

Welcome 9Circles and welcome back alias.

Alias, there is no shame in admitting to loneliness. I have experienced loneliness too: it can strangely exist alongside a happy and full life with lots of people around. It's more about the absence of meaningful connection. Addiction thrives where there is lack of connection. Last year we returned from living overseas- for me it marked the end of a long period of loneliness ( I made strong friendships from time to time, but they always left). For my kids, it was just the beginning of a period of loneliness as expat life is all they knew. I was particularly worried for my 18 year old son who had to wait a few months before starting uni. We bought him a dog and it was the best thing we ever did. Strangers would walk up to him in the street and start a conversation. Not real friendship, I know, but the beginnings of connection and acceptance into the community. Our dog has been great company for me too, he really is (wo)mans best friend. :)

9Circles I understand your dilemma. I think that whatever you choose- abstinence or moderation- will require ongoing commitment if you have previously identified as a problem drinker. As Venus often suggests: plan, plan, plan. If you continue with abstinence, what will be your "reason" for not drinking after your "event" has ended? If you choose moderation what will be "the rules" and the daily/weekly/monthly limits? Very wise of you to start thinking about these things now, before you are faced with a sudden decision or awkward situation.

Hope everyone else on the bus is having a good week.

LilyRose88 · 20/08/2019 13:57

9Circles I think your choice really depends on what sort of relationship you had/have with alcohol. I know that I can't be a 'normal' drinker as that first drink inevitably leads to more until I get drunk. And the cycle begins again! I did give up alcohol for 10 years and convinced myself that I was not an alcoholic as I found it quite easy to abstain. So I started drinking again...….

I have come to accept that I will never be able to just have a couple of drinks. Something happens to me when I have a drink and I can't stop. I wish I could. Your comment about your old ways being to drink as fast as you could until you got drunk does lead me to believe that you might be like me. But only you can decide. I feel so much better now that I am not drinking (although I'm only on day 24). I have no awful anxiety in the mornings and my skin and eyes look much better. But life can still be a bitch, and I still have some of the same problems, so I won't pretend that being sober fixes everything. My job still sucks, and I am lonely, I am still single and one of my cats had to be put to sleep on Friday! But the difference is that I no longer use these things as an excuse to down a bottle of Pinot Grigio.

aliasname · 20/08/2019 17:05

Some really good points venus and marlu thank you.

I am forcing myself to join a book club, even though I hate the idea of trying to meet new people... I know it will be better than becoming more and more isolated with just a bottle of wine for company!

We do say hello when walking the dogs, but you're right it's not really a meaningful connection... everyone says dog-walking is a good way to meet people, but I rarely go to the same places... also, I admit I'm a social mess ~ hate small-talk & can never relax. As an introvert I'm usually very happy in my own company, but just occasionally would like to have that close friendship with someone.

On the positive side, I've just started cutting down my alcohol even further (last year I started getting low-alcohol wine) from 3/4 bottles a week to just twice a week. At this rate in about 10 years I will be completely teetotal. [How interesting that my predictive text doesn't recognize the word 'teetotal']

Craftycorvid · 20/08/2019 20:22

Hi 9Circles and all the Babes. To abstain or moderate? My own efforts to moderate would last as long as it took for someone to open a bottle in my vicinity (5 mile radius would do it - random households going ‘that woman’s here again! Bloody hell! Every time we hit the Sauv’ Blanc, there she is....’). My odd sense of humour aside, my DH would also love it if we could ‘just’ share a bottle of wine with a meal, but it always ended up being two and me with the Lion’s share. I miss the booze, yes, but it feels like an exciting but risky friendship I’ve outgrown. I know I would almost certainly be back to drinking heavily very quickly if I started again. Bloody well done, Alias for successfully moderating.

LilyRose88 · 21/08/2019 10:41

Crafty you and I are very similar! I am going to a festival over the Bank Holiday weekend with some friends, and normally we would all get plastered. I told them last night that I had stopped drinking so would not be having any alcohol. I could tell that they were quite surprised but they didn't question me too much. I just said that I wasn't a very healthy drinker as I could never just have one drink, and had decided to knock it on the head. I didn't make a big thing about it and hopefully the weekend will go well with me being AF. I don't think I will be tempted to drink as I am still in that early very focused period of being sober. I don't think there is an AA tent there (I have had a quick look online) but I'm sure that I will be okay. I'm going to take a water bottle and keep it filling it up so that I always have a drink in my hand.

I am on day 25 AF now and still feeling positive.