Think I need to cancel my wedding

[RaspberryRiceCakes]

Ok so have names changed just for this as don't want it connected to other posts.

DP and I are getting married in August this year. We have been together for 12 years, have 1 DC ages 2, and we own our home jointly.

For years he has been a bit secretive about money, got a bit weird if I asked how much money he had left over after bills etc. We have a joint account and we pay equal amounts into it so not like he doesn't pay his way, but he just whacks everything else on a credit card...coffee, petrol, food shop etc. It builds up and up until it's out of control. I eventually find out about it, we figure a way to pay it off and then he promises to be better with his money, cancel the card etc. He has pretty average credit despite debt years ago but he can only get high interest rate credit cards also so the payments are usually very high. I on the other hand have very good credit.

This cycle continues over and over and we now have an 18k loan which is a consolidation of a number of his credit cards/finance and some other unfortunate large spends when we were short of cash because he took a large pay cut -another thread entirely-. He now has a better paid job again and we are doing ok financially. I thought this was it though and all the debt was just this one manageable monthly payment. We had a very frank conversation months ago after the last lot of credit card debt was discovered. We discussed remortgaging later in the year and take some equity out of the house to get rid of it. However I have since found out he has 2 credit cards each with 1K+ on (he told me he only had about £300 on 1, and last month he took out an 8.5k loan!!! He has at least paid off the credit cards as the payment on the loan is much less than the credit cards, but I don't know how he was planning on explaining the extra 6k. He has also booked us a holiday for next year which he doesn't know I've seen the paperwork for. That still leaves 4k. I also don't know how he was planning on explaining the loan when we came to remortgage.

I first got suspicious because he started spending money on clothes, not expensive really but I know he wouldn't have much spare cash. He also gave me his card details to pay for something for the wedding which he said was his credit card (that we would pay off with the money we were waiting for) but they were in fact is debit card details, this was £500 and I know he definitely wouldn't have that much spare.

Our wedding is costing under 3k and we have had money gifted to help with this anyway so no financial pressure there. There's less than 1K left to pay.

I have confronted him about it last night and he has done his usual deny deny deny. I haven't shown my hand yet on how I know 100% (bank statement) but I've told him something has shown up on my credit report as he is a linked associate. Still deny deny deny. He's stated he was 'just looking' and applied for one but cancelled it before he received any money as the rate was different after he'd gone through the application.

We didn't speak for the rest of the night and this morning has been frosty. He's gone out for a bit and I've sent him a long text basically saying I'm not angry about the actual loan, I'm angry about the denial. That he must thing I'm a right mug, I'm insulted he things I'm so dumb. I said I'm not prepared to enter a marriage based on lies and he's basically text back saying, we'll make sure you do it today and text everyone to let them know. So he's calling my bluff.

Still complete and utter denial 🤷‍♀️ like, HE is the dumb one isn't he?? What do I do? I really don't want to end things, I love him very much and things are good in every other aspect. But I just don't get why he takes me for such a mug when it comes to money/hidden debt.

(Also large debt can seriously effect my job...I've applied for a new job internally and will have to go through more strict vetting if I get it, and large debt can apparently leave you open to bribes so I would probably fail it )

Sorry for the extremely long post.

He needs to see those paper statements Op .Highlight his "drip, drip" spending to bring it home to him how unnecessary this is.

Two of my Ds's have started preparing themseves lunch every day to stop the spending at Costa, MacDonalds etc, they cannot get over how much they are saving. One of the ds's has an excuse not to go for lunch with his colleagues.....that he is on a special diet! (not strictly true, but he has lost weight since he started doing his own lunches.

I feel sorry for you both, but he is definitely putting his head in the sand, and behaving like a child whilst not admitting his debts/mistakes. He is embarrassed as you have always been the one to take charge of the finances, whereas he is completely incapable of taking responsibility, even though he wants to be thought of as "male provider"
If he is not prepared to sit down calmly with you and be honest about the state of his finances and be prepared to stick to a joint and honest financial programme going forward then there is very little hope for your future together.
Don't shout at him and "tell him off" because he will just regress into a little boy and you won't get antwhere with him.

Hi op,
I didn't want to read and run.
I haven't experienced anything to this extent but my Oh is bad with money, he'll just buy what he wants, without shopping around, even though we're supposed to be saving for a house and it frustrates the hell out of me. Then when I say anything it's me being grumpy/unreasonable.
So I totally get the just taking out on you and just trying to project blame. Just wanted to say stay strong when he's doing this and know that it is most definitely him that needs to change.

For what it's worth, I don't think marrying him is the best course at this point. There are too many red flags. I'm sorry.

Run, run now while you still can.

Unfortunately I speak from personal experience. My ex H was like this. He always had to have the best of everything, don’t worry put it on a credit card, take out a loan and never told me about his finances because they were private and as long as the bills were paid he thought I didn’t need to know. Until the day he came home from and said that if he didn’t sort it out he was going to lose his job. Me being me thought marriage was forever, took all his debt into my name. Six months later he left to be with the woman he had been cheating with and I was left with £56,000 of debt. The courts couldn’t do anything about it because I hadn’t been coerced into taking on the debt. He got remarried 2 weeks after our divorce was finalised, I finished paying off the debt last year 10 years after our divorce. I was too proud to declare myself bankrupt and as a bankrupt couldn’t work in my chosen profession. Financial honesty and openness are the only way relationships can work. I lost count of sleepless nights, dread and worry because of someone else’s actions. Get out before it is too late.

He has had a shit childhood. He is behaving like an addict - irresponsible, impulsive, deluded, denial, lying, exploitative, selfish spendaholic.

That might explain his bad behaviour but it doesn’t excuse it.

You are his enabler as you clear up his mess - just so that he is free to do it again.

This will get worse and worse and worse. He is v unstable and dysfunctional - 30 jobs and his behaviour to you tells you that on top of the spending.

You will lose your home, inheritance, credit rating, job etc in the end.

But worse than that you will lose your mental health, youth, joy, physical health and motherhood to the turmoil of years and years of stress, lies, mistrust, bail outs etc. Your own DC will end up with major emotional issues because your finite emotional energy is focused on spinning plates for him.....which is only going one way and is futile anyway.

So stop this future horror story - by stepping off the merry go round. Tell you r Mum, see a counsellor, call of the wedding and kick him out.

Ouch! @alliwantisagoodnightssleep you poor woman! God, what have you been through?

At least you don't have the cocklodger with you but I know thats cold comfort.

Does he actually have enough money, do you earn more than him?
You can waste quite a lot on coffees and lunches, but this seems more than that. You need to both do a budget and see what you can really afford.

I had a man who ripped me off, thousands. Never got it back. I call it The Gamblers Paradox.

You keep.investing money expecting a return. The only way to break it is just to cut your losses and never return to the table.

This is very hard to do as you are emotionally and now financially tied. Trust me, it needs to be done.

Then wait for the Wilhelm Scream.

Can you make credit counseling a non-negotiationable before the wedding? Also, they may be able to reduce the interest.

Not RTFT. I'm going against the grain here. I would def cancel the wedding. I would not be legally tied to someone in that much debt. But I wouldn't end the relationship. Not yet anyway. Hopefully cancelling the wedding and refusing to marry until he is debt free is enough of a wake-up call. I agree lying is bad, but if he has a spending problem and is prepared to acknowledge it, seek help, handover control to you... if you love him and you have a kid together I'd be willing to give him one more chance but not married. If he fucks up again, then time to call it a day.

Remove the monetary issues from the situation for a minute because the money isn’t the biggest issue; the issue is he is a pathological liar. He lies to your face, with complete disregard for your feelings & wellbeing, expecting you not to know because well, he thinks you’re stupid. How can you spend the rest of your life with someone who doesn’t see you as an equal? How can you spend the rest of your life with someone who is a calculated, manipulative, well established liar? This is not the way you treat someone you love and RESPECT. His disregard for you speaks volumes. Do you want your DC to grow up to believe it’s okay to lie? Because while they may not understand it right now, don’t think they won’t see his lies as they grow older. You should want more for yourself, too.
And if you factor the money in, you WILL be inheriting his debt and the debt he continues to rack up on the sly. Do you want to homeless & bankrupt in 10 years time? Because this won’t end any other way.

You are an equal partner, not a safety blanket. You bail him out so he doesn’t need to change his behaviour, because you let it go and the fix the situation. You’re enabling him and enabling it to continue. You deserve better, I hope you see that. Do not settle for this.

Sorry for the radio silence, and thank you for all your comments. I have read them all but too many to reply to individually at the moment, but honestly thank you all for confirming my thoughts.

My DM had DC for a couple of hours so we had some alone time away from little ears.

I sat him down and calmly asked again, have you taken out a loan. Starts stuttering as if he's trying to think up an excuse, I say give me a simple yes or no answers. He says yes. Success I think, finally some honestly. I then ask how much, he says £1300 and do you fucking know why, storms upstairs and grabs the holiday paperwork, throws it down the stairs to me and starts going on there you fucking go you've ruined it all now I try to do something nice and this is what I get blah blah blah. I said do you want to get that bank statement that was on top of that paperwork and we can sit down and look at it together. He's absolutely fuming at this point and starts ranting and raving about god knows what. He storms off to go and get DC but they're in the garden do DM doesn't hear them ringing the bell. I ring DF and tell him not to let DP in and we've had a disagreement and he's in a bit of a state. I follow him but then he comes back home, and locks me out of the house, I had to climb over the side gate and let myself in the side door. He then stormed upstairs and starts packing his things, saying the woman from the wedding venue is ringing him back in 45 minutes and he is going to cancel the wedding. We'll be better off without him, I'm clearly so unhappy, he can't be with someone who doesn't trust him etc and then he comes out with loads of excuses, the expected 'I didn't want you to worry about money' 'I have a plan for the money' 'I don't know how it got so bad' blah blah blah.

Things have calmed down a bit now and we finally had a proper chat. He's saying he will have all his salary paid into the joint account, give me the credit cards to cut up and will give me all his online banking log in details so I can change the passwords etc so he has no access. He has shown me his credit report and there is nothing else on it I don't already know about, obviously the loan is yet to go on. He wants to use the rest of the loan money to pay DC nursery fees until we get the 3 year funding. There will be some left over but no suggestion as to what it will be used for. He's suggesting we save hard until the end of the year to pay off what we can of the loans and remortgage for the rest that is owing.

I haven't agreed to anything and have told him that I need some time to think about things. I'm really conflicted. I love him and don't want to break up my family but equally I don't want a marriage plagued by debt, lies and deceit. He has never ever agreed to handing over all the finances before, he's always been so dead set against it and now the change of heart.

You've all made so much sense and the consensus is not to marry him. I just need to keep reading this thread over and over until it's ingrained on my brain. He will not change, he will not change, he will not change

Not RTFT. I'm going against the grain here. I would def cancel the wedding.

How can you know your going against the grain if you haven’t read the thread?

Most people have said to cancel the wedding.

this is a house built on sand. Cancel him.

If he was genuinely concerned about money and wanted to protect you from knowing, why is he buying surprise holidays for a year’s time? That sums up his attitude towards money. A person sensible with money would never do that in a million years.

Even if he is saying what you want to hear now, I think he would need a lot of help to change his mindset.

Christ. Let him cancel and if he doesn't then do it yourself. He's making this all your fault and not taking any responsibility. Then giving you all the control so it will be your fault if he does the same again. His response tells you everything OP. I'm so sorry

@PurpleDaisies I read 5 of the 8 pages and most people seemed to be saying to leave him altogether. I do get that, but I was inclined to think cancel the wedding but not necessarily leave just yet.

He's suggesting we save hard until the end of the year to pay off what we can of the loans and remortgage for the rest that is owing.
He's making it your problem to scrimp and save to pay back money he's spent on God knows what. Can he sell his stuff? What can he do without? Actions rather than words.

He's only agreed to you having the control because he knows he's about to lose everything.
Even if you do cut up his cards and you have a plan to pay his debts off, how do you know he won't just take out other cards behind your back?
I'd think long and hard about this ....

“I don't want a marriage plagued by debt, lies and deceit.”

Your relationship already is, so why would your marriage be any different? He’s only suggesting handing finances over to you because he’s manipulating you. It is not a big step; it’s a tool to get you to drop it and continue on because marriage is harder to walk away from. If you really must marry him, do yourself a favour and get a mighty good pre-nup because you’ll need it.

God, OP, what a miserable bank holiday weekend you are having.

He's lied to you before. Can you be sure that he is being honest this time?

Did he seriously say that 'he can't be with somebody who doesn't trust him'? What has he done to deserve your trust?

Even if you do cut up his cards and you have a plan to pay his debts off, how do you know he won't just take out other cards behind your back?

This is exactly why I am so sceptical and haven't agreed to anything yet. He has done this before. But his reasoning is that he will not be able to cover it up, as he's got to pay it back somehow and with just the joint account he won't be able to do that.

He's also deleted all his card details from his phone so can't do Apple Pay etc either. He definitely doesn't know the card details to add them back later cos we've just changed banks and he doesn't even know his PIN number let one the card number.

Can he sell his stuff? What can he do without?

Apparently he's going to sell his Apple Watch and golf clubs 🙄 I'll believe that when I see it though.

Put the wedding off. See how it goes for a year. Get debt counselling (step change) you can get interest stopped which will mean no more credit for a while. Make him deal with this or you are giving a bad message. He has to see consequences. You need to step back, it's not your job to fix him. That level of anger is not acceptable, don't chase after him, let him sit with his feelings. Too much drama. What if you are ill or in trouble, who will take care of things. He needs to eat humble pie and make amends. Think about it all again next year.

Did he seriously say that 'he can't be with somebody who doesn't trust him'? What has he done to deserve your trust?

Yes he did seriously say this and I was actually lost for words when he did. I said do you really think you're trustworthy? Have you done anything to show me your trustworthy? No reply to that obviously.

Please leave him. He can still take out more loans and cards behind your back. You'll lose everything. He's only told you because he was busted,! If you hadn't caught him then God knows what else he would've done!

Honestly can't thank you all enough you're all helping so just to straighten my head. Feels good to talk about this with others, especially when they have first hand experience.

I half told my DM and she was understanding but I don't want to worry her so haven't told her the full extent. I know it's the same cliche said to me but she has enough to worry about at the moment.