Advice for managing PIL with new baby

[WishingILivedOnAnIsland]

My PIL are challenging people to get along with. When displeased they rant and scold, recite lists of hurtful personal comments on a loop, repeatedly threaten to cut DH out of their lives and have even thrown physical tantrums (dropping themselves on the floor sobbing). It can be over very small things and it is absolutely exhausting. They are easily offended and constantly feuding with someone or other. They have cut multiple family members permanently out of their lives.

We moved nearer to them when DC2 was born and found them overwhelming. They would show up multiple times a week uninvited and stay for hours while DH was at work. I had PNA for about 5 months after DC2 was born and unfortunately DH told them about it. They would repeatedly do things to our newborn (eg holding her up over their heads or kissing her when they were sick) that they’d been told triggered my anxiety. They since told DH that they’ve made a point of not following my requests in relation to DC because ‘if we had she would have just kept telling us what to do’ and anyway why should they listen to someone ‘mentally ill and irrational’.

I recovered completely from PNA a long time ago but they still constantly (as in, multiple times within a single conversation) refer to me as ‘mentally ill’ and ‘irrational’ and try to convince DH he shouldn’t allow me a say in decisions.

After trying for a long time to please them, I went LC about 1 year ago. My stepping back infuriated them and they have been compulsively criticising everything about me since. They actively hate me now. I cannot be in the room without at least one of them glaring/ pouting/ refusing to look at me when I speak-and sadly this behaviour is a best case scenario as we are always afraid of a massive scene. It’s really unpleasant and I am increasingly concerned about DC picking up on the dynamic as they get older.

I will give birth to DC3 soon. My counsellor said that PIL were a significant factor in worsening my PNA last time. My relationship with PIL has obviously soured since then so I expect they’ll be worse. They will likely demand a lot of bonding time with the new baby and DH will want to try to satisfy them in the hope of preventing theatrics. Basically I am dreading it and trying to think of how to protect myself emotionally during the newborn phase.

DH is a good man, a wonderful father and supportive to me in every other way. He is very intelligent but has a blind spot when it comes to his parents. He sometimes just goes along with what they say and want without considering if it’s reasonable. He tries hard to please them and is scared of their threats to cut him off. He respects my decision to be LC on some levels but also asks me to be ‘the bigger person’ by being relentlessly nice and accomodating to them no matter how they treat me.

I don’t want to be separated from my BF newborn so they can see her without me, which is what they will be expecting. However I am also worried about being pressured into contact with PIL while I am exhausted, hormonal and sensitive. I am concerned that I am at risk of another bout of PNA and I feel really stuck.

I want to sit DH down soon and agree on a plan for the newborn period ahead of time.

So my question (thanks if you made it this far!): what is reasonable in terms of PIL’s involvement here? What rules/limits/boundaries am I within my rights to ask for? Any tips or advice?

TLDR: PIL are hard work - tips / rules for managing them around new baby?

@justilou1 thats so awful. What are you going to do? Will your DH go to counselling with you?

@AttilaTheMeerkat His responses when I say things like that are 'but they are my parents' 'we need to give them time' and if pushed he'll say something along the lines of 'I jus don't know' and he'll look so miserable and worn down that I'll feel sorry for him and stop pushing it.

I think this is where relationship counselling comes in.

'But they are my parents' isn't a get out of jail free card. You can answer with 'But they are horrible to both you and me' and 'And I am your wife and the mother of your children'

'We need to give them more time' - 'How much time? We have already given them x amount of time and they still did y only last week. There is no change'

He can't get out of this by pulling a sad face - this is effectively the same tactic as his parents crying on the floor in shutting down debate.

You are going to have to push it or you will be doing the nice-DIL dance until they die.

He's not a wonderful husband, and you don't have an otherwise good marriage if you feel so alone.

Let him have his dad face.

He's a weak mess.

Protect your children.

Protect yourself.

Sad face

How much time do you need? How much time do you get? You’re his wife and the mother of his three kids. They have had all the time in the world to turn into reasonable, decent human beings and it hasn’t happened.
In answer to your question, we are in counselling. There are other issues we are looking at as well, but the attitude that him thinking that he decides how I must think and feel and behave after marrying me because I was an independent person is rather ironic, isn’t it? I get choose those things and I get to decide if someone is a negative influence on my children. (And they are old enough to tell me, btw.)

You now say TIMES UP what is he going to do about it! Show him this thread!

@60secondfacetimer

I've thought about showing him the thread just to give him an outsider's perspective on PIL's behaviour which seems normal to him.

I'd tell him that he's had his time and his chance to make an impact on their behaviour. That you believe they won't change.
They're not allowed into your house.
That you don't trust him to put your children first, that children don't hear negative words about parents and that's your hard line.
I'd go too, to a cafe and any single negative word will mean you up and leave and he'd better be leaving with you!

I would insist that ALL of you go NC

A few unanswered questions.
Why has he reason to be scared of being cut off?
Why did you move closer to them? What's the story with the house?
Why have they said there will be no inheritance, how did that conversation come about?
I sense there's more to this.

Are there other relatives that your DH has that he could have a healthier relationship with?
I ask this as I know of someone who had a very disfunctional relationship with thier parents, who they eventually went NC with. They slowly established a relationship with an Aunt and Uncle (that had gone NC with those Parents) who eventually became like surrogate grandparents to the Dc's.
I have friends that have lost parents and established a connection with older family friends who also act in place of GP's.
I had a difficult relationship with my MIL but DH would ignore her nonsense and would always support me.
She gave up when she realised her behaviour got her nowhere and had no effect on our relationship, in fact her behaviour had the opposite effect and made mine and Dh's relationship stronger.

@cptartapp

They've cut off other immediate family members in situations where normal people would just shrug and get over the offence in a day, so DH believes them when they say they would cut him off.

There is absolutely more to the house. Before we dated DH and his parents bought land together and over the years developed it to build a few houses. We now live in the one that was always marked as DH's share of the investment. We paid for and own it. they have a small amount of equity in our house but we could pay them out tomorrow with money sitting in our account. I have wanted to pay them out for ages because since we moved in they have acted like they own our home. DH doesn't want to pay them back right now because he knows they will perceive it as an insult or us breaking away from them and they will blow up.

God When I write that out I realise how ridiculous I've been for enabling this.

re inheritance: I dont want to go into a lot of detail but basically there is to be no inheritance from PIL beyond the small amount of money they already contributed to building our home. It's not a big deal as DH and I are doing well financially.

Also no amount of money is worth it.

@HazelBite DH has some lovely aunts, uncles and cousins. He also has good friendships/mentoring relationships with senior people in his profession. That's something to really think about.

Obviously nothing would fill the void of losing your parents but it would probably help to focus on positive connections more.

DH doesn't want to pay them back right now because he knows they will perceive it as an insult or us breaking away from them and they will blow up

That is ridiculous. Any normal family would be thrilled that you had saved and saved and were now paying back the loan as you wanted to give the money back to your parents to thank them for everything they had done for you.

Which is how you should present to them - get the debt paid so you are no longer beholden to them.

Personally I don't think your children should be around your DH either....

What kind of parent allows his children to witness this shit? He's a wet lettuce that refuses to put his kids first.

LTB and contact Social Services to get advice about keeping the kids away from their father.

Sorry OP. I know it's upsetting to hear. I'm not trying to hurt you. I'm just disgusted at the way you've been treated

When I read your posts I am reminded of the situation between my mum and gran. My gran always belittled her and impressed upon me that she didn't love me. Eventually I started believing that my mum was this useless person my gran described and I mirrored grans behaviour. I vividly remember being around 5 on holiday, interrupting my mum to tell our taxi driver my mum was stupid and didn't know the way to the hotel. Do you want this to happen with your children?
Now I did spend a lot of time with gran since she was the childcare of choice so she probably had more influence on me than your PIL have. But children aren't blind they notice the pecking order in the family. If you are at the bottom chances are they will not respect you. I now realise how bad this behaviour was but it took decades and the birth of my own children to start to unravel this convoluted mess.
My mum tried to fight the situation but like you she was on her own in it all. I do resent her for not having tried harder since I was tiny when it all started and had no idea what was going on. I loved my gran at the time, I didn't realized how controlling and horrible she was.
I hope your children don't end up as beholden to your PIL as your husband. You are at the beginning of it all make sure to protect them even if it seems they 'love' the grandparents. If the situation is as toxic as you describe keep them away from it as much as possible.

Good luck OP it sounds like you have some really difficult decisions to make

If Rose +Fred West arrived with snacks and toys your dc would show a welcoming response. Dc take their lead from dps.
Show them how to be safe from abusers.
Nc.

So he's terrified of insulting his parents but you can be treated like dirt. I'm afraid your DH is the problem here. His thinking is so skewed it's untrue. I'm afraid his actions suggest he would almost rather lose you over this whole mess than them. First step you need to re-set the balance of power and absolutely must pay that money back. The fact you already know there is to be no inheritance suggests more dysfunction somewhere.
They may cut off other family but you and DH are unique in that you control access to the prize, their GC. I doubt they would risk that. Your DH sounds like a puppy that keeps getting kicked and going back for more. How demeaning. I couldn't live like that.

He has set a very low bar for them. He doesn't expect them to stop criticising me, or apologise, or anything like that.

This is appalling - and are you ok with being treated like this? As others have said you have a DH problem as big as PIL.

Normally showing threads to the subject is a bad idea.

This time it might be useful.