Advice for managing PIL with new baby

[WishingILivedOnAnIsland]

My PIL are challenging people to get along with. When displeased they rant and scold, recite lists of hurtful personal comments on a loop, repeatedly threaten to cut DH out of their lives and have even thrown physical tantrums (dropping themselves on the floor sobbing). It can be over very small things and it is absolutely exhausting. They are easily offended and constantly feuding with someone or other. They have cut multiple family members permanently out of their lives.

We moved nearer to them when DC2 was born and found them overwhelming. They would show up multiple times a week uninvited and stay for hours while DH was at work. I had PNA for about 5 months after DC2 was born and unfortunately DH told them about it. They would repeatedly do things to our newborn (eg holding her up over their heads or kissing her when they were sick) that they’d been told triggered my anxiety. They since told DH that they’ve made a point of not following my requests in relation to DC because ‘if we had she would have just kept telling us what to do’ and anyway why should they listen to someone ‘mentally ill and irrational’.

I recovered completely from PNA a long time ago but they still constantly (as in, multiple times within a single conversation) refer to me as ‘mentally ill’ and ‘irrational’ and try to convince DH he shouldn’t allow me a say in decisions.

After trying for a long time to please them, I went LC about 1 year ago. My stepping back infuriated them and they have been compulsively criticising everything about me since. They actively hate me now. I cannot be in the room without at least one of them glaring/ pouting/ refusing to look at me when I speak-and sadly this behaviour is a best case scenario as we are always afraid of a massive scene. It’s really unpleasant and I am increasingly concerned about DC picking up on the dynamic as they get older.

I will give birth to DC3 soon. My counsellor said that PIL were a significant factor in worsening my PNA last time. My relationship with PIL has obviously soured since then so I expect they’ll be worse. They will likely demand a lot of bonding time with the new baby and DH will want to try to satisfy them in the hope of preventing theatrics. Basically I am dreading it and trying to think of how to protect myself emotionally during the newborn phase.

DH is a good man, a wonderful father and supportive to me in every other way. He is very intelligent but has a blind spot when it comes to his parents. He sometimes just goes along with what they say and want without considering if it’s reasonable. He tries hard to please them and is scared of their threats to cut him off. He respects my decision to be LC on some levels but also asks me to be ‘the bigger person’ by being relentlessly nice and accomodating to them no matter how they treat me.

I don’t want to be separated from my BF newborn so they can see her without me, which is what they will be expecting. However I am also worried about being pressured into contact with PIL while I am exhausted, hormonal and sensitive. I am concerned that I am at risk of another bout of PNA and I feel really stuck.

I want to sit DH down soon and agree on a plan for the newborn period ahead of time.

So my question (thanks if you made it this far!): what is reasonable in terms of PIL’s involvement here? What rules/limits/boundaries am I within my rights to ask for? Any tips or advice?

TLDR: PIL are hard work - tips / rules for managing them around new baby?

dh must have had one screwed up childhood.

Your DH can't be trusted to safeguard the children against their behaviour. He allowed an ebf newborn baby to go without their source of food for too long to appease them. He listens to them make negative comments about you in front of the kids and pretends it's okay as they probably didn't hear it. They should either see them a few times a year, in a public place with you present at all times, or not at all.

reading your posts op, i'm not sure i would be staying with dh long term tbh, he makes excuses for them, doesn't really stick up for you and pil will in turn poison your dcs minds too.
i would tell him straight once and for all how it makes you feel then when dc3 is born start making plans about your future with the dc as a single parent. your former pils have no right to see gc then, or it can at least be very limited if they are with dad during access time.

@fecketyfeck21 I think he had a relatively normal childhood. They only turned on him when he started saying 'no' to them and that was only necessary after DC were born. He's seen them have stupid vendettas against other people but sort of stayed out of it/assumed it was normal and other people did that as well/assumed it was the other persons fault because that's what he was told. He never thought it would be turned on him/us. He's absolutely shaken by the way things have gone and it's completely made him rethink his whole view of his parents. He's had to come a long way in a year, from thinking his parents were great to realising they are incredibly flawed, mean and don't understand healthy relationships.

Divorcing DH would only expose my children to more time with PIL because i would not be there to intervene and DH would probably fall back into a pattern of doing what they say. PIL would throw a parade at getting rid of me.

Also I love DH and don't want to divorce him. Otherwise our marriage and life is very happy.

You sound like such a lovely person OP and it must be very difficult trying to be supportive to your husband whilst his family try to tear your family apart. For him to allow them to continually say you have mental health issues and slag you off and still bow to their every whim is absolutely crazy. They will continue to put you down and mention ' Mummy's mental health issues' in front of the children who will one day understand their viscous words and be very confused.

I would be putting my big girl knickers on and telling OH the children will not be visiting in laws any more and they will not be seeing the newborn either. He needs to realise that you are his family now and you and the children are the most important relationships in his life not his parents.

Ask him which would be worse, losing you or losing his parents, who is he the more emotionally invested in?

Your marriage and family life is going to be utter hell for you if don't put a stop this right now.

Having re-read your posts to my DH I have come to the conclusion that you are the problem.

This is like Brexit, there are no compromises where everone will be happy. The only way for you to be happy is for a clean break from your PIL. After a certain amount of time it might be possible to re-establish some semblance of a relationship but on your terms. In the meantime you get on with your lives and establish other relationships that are more beneficial to your lives and wellbeing.

What would you advise a beloved sibling or best mate to do in these circumstances?
What do your parents think of the situation?

My DH immediately said he'd give an ultimatum to the DH - you and the DC or his parents.

I'm surprised, OP, that someone who writes so articulately and is clearly intelligent and thoughtful, is not able to work out what to do in the best interests of yourself and your DC.

This has gone in for a long time now and it hasn't been solved. Your marriage won't survive your DH's attitude to this in the long term.

@Gigglinghysterically hard to hear but fair.

My parents think we should move abroad for two years. We know a few people who maintain relationships with incredibly challenging relatives and they all live elsewhere and see that person once or twice a year. This contains it and makes it sustainable. I agree with my parents, I think if we were far away then it would represent a clean break, and they would have to get on with their lives and not be dependent on us for attention and to fill their day. I could cope with them for one or two weeks a year and there would be a geographical boundary keeping them at bay so I wouldn't have to rely on DH.

I told DH at the start of this pregnancy I want to move abroad. If not abroad then to the other side of our current city. DH really doesn't want to, and said he can't give up on PIL and wants more time for it to get better. Also all the practicalities such as our careers, we own the house we live in, we like the area and the school, I'll be isolated on maternity leave if I am in a foreign country with no friends... all of that. I honestly would put up with all that to be rid of PIL but DH needs more time I guess.

You might love him. But it's such a shame he doesn't love you.

You deserve so much more.

I really do sympathise with your DH, it is so hard to mourn the relationship you will never have with your parents. You just keep hoping they will have some realisation and suddenly become the traditional mum and dad everyone else seems to have.

What he has to realise is you cannot make people into who you want them to be. All you can control is your reaction to them. You have to develop boundaries or you will drown.

Yes, they are also his children, but your role as parent involves protecting them, even against your own husband if necessary. They are witnessing things that will be upsetting and scary and their contact with these people could give them a lifetime of issues. How long before the poisonous whispers start in your children's ears. Your husband never thought they would treat you this way, he cannot claim they will not do this to your children. They have expectations of people and those who behave contrary to these expectations are no longer valuable in their eyes. Your children will develop their own voice and should not be taught to placate abusive people - that is a terrible and dangerous lesson to teach them.

Lay down boundaries. Your breastfed baby will not be taken to their house. Meetings can be in public and you can wait at a cafe nearby. If necessary, go and take the children away if your husband cannot do so.

What is happening now isn't working. Your children will be damaged by these abusive people. If your husband cannot protect them, you should Maybe it is your husband here who needs the realisation of what his FOG is risking

So you express you feelings (which have strong consequences with your MH), he says he doesn't want to and you just say ok?

That's not how healthy marriages work op. He is putting his own feelings and that of his parents above yours. You need to stand up to him

I find your thread shocking & saddening. They seem very disturbed & toxic. Exposing your children to this behaviour will damage them. You need to ask your DH if that's a price worth paying.

I would guess on their death beds they will still be utter twats. And your dh will live with massive guilt that in their eyes he wasn't a better ds...
Maybe therapy together if you think he hasn't been totally up front with his??
Seems to me only with massive intervention by you can anything change.
And not his dps because they never will, but better tools for your dh to walk away.

Do you have family nearby?

Your husband cares for his parents feelings more than yours, simple as that. I feel so sorry for you OP, they will always come first. Not a situation I would ever be willing to live with.

@PrayingandHoping I'm not sure what I can do. I can't force him to move. I could say to DH 'do what I want or I'll scream and cry and possibly break up our marriage.' but then I'm basically doing the same thing as PIL. I don't want to emotionally manipulate him, I want him to think for himself and act knowing it's the right thing to do.

I think there is an inevitable conclusion in relation to PIL. They are toxic. They aren't going to change. But I want him to reach that conclusion on his own. Cutting off your own parents is a huge and personal decision most people don't ever have to confront. I don't if I am right to push him into it.

That said, this thread has really shaken some sense into me in relation to the DC. I need to enforce much stricter boundaries. I am very close to saying NC for the children, except for a rare meeting in a cafe if they can be civil.

I think I need to stop allowing DH to take DC to visit them without me present. PPs are right, they are going to slowly poison my DC. And they have already told our whole family that I'm crazy, it's a matter of time before our DC understand and start asking about it.

Not that it matters but I had relatively mild PNA and it was cured very quickly. I never wanted DD to find out about it, but it seems inevitable now that she will be told at a young age which is really unfair on her.

If I let them see DC going forward I think it will be less frequently and in a cafe where I am present. It's painful to admit but I can't rely on DH to stand up to them.

I remember, years back, reading of ppl with alcohol problems being filmed while they were drunk & shown it later when they were sober. The object was to clearly show how they were seen & perceived by others, not how they thought they were behaving when they were drunk. It had a very profound effect on them as the reality totally contradicted what they thought they were doing & being thought of. Is it possible you/DH could discretely film the PILs when they're on one of their vicious rants, complete with falling to the floor etc then at some stage play it back to them? If seeing themselves literally as others are seeing them when they do this isn't enough to stop them then they're really beyond all redemption. I'd certainly not have anything to do with these toxic ppl & they would never be within 100 miles of my DC.

@Tooner I often feel like he cares more about their feelings but I think it's more that he wants to keep the peace.

He knows if he disappoints them then they will wail, cry, shout and carry on. They will not forgive. It will make him miserable for weeks.

He knows if he disappoints me I will have a proportionate response. I will forgive him. I will do my best to understand.

So he asks me to 'be the bigger person' while turning himself inside out trying to please them.

You should not have to scream and cry to get your husband to listen to you....

If you firmly and calmly tell him you need distance from them, you want to move further away so the family all has less
contact and that you won't back down, he should listen to you.

You are willing to not go NC, you just want a lot less contact and more distance. That is very fair of you considering and is showing him a great deal fairness and respect and in turn he should give it to you. At the moment he is not

Is there a cultural aspect to some of this? One of my good friends has similar issues with her PiL who are from a culture where the grandparents are very very involved. She has had to work very hard to put appropriate barriers in place so they don't undermine her parenting.

I think the boundaries I would set is:

They never come to your house
You and the children never go to their house
They can see the children, with you and your DH present, in a public place a few times a year - any hint of bad behaviour from them and you and the children will leave

Your DH can visit them alone as much as he likes.

You do not have to tolerate any abuse from them - and you must protect your children from it.

I am really sorry OP, im not sure I have much to add that’s helpful here, but truly this thread is really hard going. This is an awful situation and I honestly couldn’t be with a man that allows his parents to be abusive to you and use the kids as weapons. The fact that you’re having a third child with him despite this situation hurts my heart for you. You and your kids deserve more than this. You and they are not his priority and never will be. They will not change, no matter how hard he wishes they would.

Unfortunately your DH is essentially quite a weak man (when it comes to his parents at least) and currently it is easier for him to make you suffer than stand up to them.

I know you don't want to 'manipulate' him like the parents do, but it seems like you do need to make it a lot harder for him to sacrifice your/your children's wellbeing to appease his parents.

Be absolutely clear with your DH on what the boundaries are, and insist he upholds them with you. They start saying or doing anything abusive or inappropriate and you leave.

@AbbyHammond I think that's exactly what I'll tell DH I think is reasonable. I also think we need to move house.

PIL will hit the roof. DH will be bombarded with emotional blackmail. I know it will be really ugly but I think it has to be done

@thetonsillolith No cultural issues. They're native bullies.

No OP!! You wouldn't be as bad as his parents.
Don't scream and cry.
Look him in the eye and say "I refuse to be treated like this anymore. I refuse to allow you to put me last and allow them to treat me this way. I can't control you. But I can control my life. And I deserve more"

Or go with what i did.

"I hate your parents more than I love you right now. And I can't do it anymore. I want a divorce"

2 years later I'm very happily married and we haven't seen MIL since.