Advice for managing PIL with new baby

[WishingILivedOnAnIsland]

My PIL are challenging people to get along with. When displeased they rant and scold, recite lists of hurtful personal comments on a loop, repeatedly threaten to cut DH out of their lives and have even thrown physical tantrums (dropping themselves on the floor sobbing). It can be over very small things and it is absolutely exhausting. They are easily offended and constantly feuding with someone or other. They have cut multiple family members permanently out of their lives.

We moved nearer to them when DC2 was born and found them overwhelming. They would show up multiple times a week uninvited and stay for hours while DH was at work. I had PNA for about 5 months after DC2 was born and unfortunately DH told them about it. They would repeatedly do things to our newborn (eg holding her up over their heads or kissing her when they were sick) that they’d been told triggered my anxiety. They since told DH that they’ve made a point of not following my requests in relation to DC because ‘if we had she would have just kept telling us what to do’ and anyway why should they listen to someone ‘mentally ill and irrational’.

I recovered completely from PNA a long time ago but they still constantly (as in, multiple times within a single conversation) refer to me as ‘mentally ill’ and ‘irrational’ and try to convince DH he shouldn’t allow me a say in decisions.

After trying for a long time to please them, I went LC about 1 year ago. My stepping back infuriated them and they have been compulsively criticising everything about me since. They actively hate me now. I cannot be in the room without at least one of them glaring/ pouting/ refusing to look at me when I speak-and sadly this behaviour is a best case scenario as we are always afraid of a massive scene. It’s really unpleasant and I am increasingly concerned about DC picking up on the dynamic as they get older.

I will give birth to DC3 soon. My counsellor said that PIL were a significant factor in worsening my PNA last time. My relationship with PIL has obviously soured since then so I expect they’ll be worse. They will likely demand a lot of bonding time with the new baby and DH will want to try to satisfy them in the hope of preventing theatrics. Basically I am dreading it and trying to think of how to protect myself emotionally during the newborn phase.

DH is a good man, a wonderful father and supportive to me in every other way. He is very intelligent but has a blind spot when it comes to his parents. He sometimes just goes along with what they say and want without considering if it’s reasonable. He tries hard to please them and is scared of their threats to cut him off. He respects my decision to be LC on some levels but also asks me to be ‘the bigger person’ by being relentlessly nice and accomodating to them no matter how they treat me.

I don’t want to be separated from my BF newborn so they can see her without me, which is what they will be expecting. However I am also worried about being pressured into contact with PIL while I am exhausted, hormonal and sensitive. I am concerned that I am at risk of another bout of PNA and I feel really stuck.

I want to sit DH down soon and agree on a plan for the newborn period ahead of time.

So my question (thanks if you made it this far!): what is reasonable in terms of PIL’s involvement here? What rules/limits/boundaries am I within my rights to ask for? Any tips or advice?

TLDR: PIL are hard work - tips / rules for managing them around new baby?

I doubt your DH did have a normal childhood. He's been brain washed overnight the years into staying in line. Live how we approve and everything is fine. Exert a different opinion and you get sulking and abuse. I get it. PIL are similar. SIL and BIL got £10k towards their house deposit but DH and I got nothing because we weren't married. Despicable.
Bringing a third child into this scenario probably wasn't the wisest move. I feel sorry for you and the fact that your life will be dictated by
the misguided actions of your DH. I would be very resentful. Your oldest is in her third year, you haven't got the luxury of time before it impacts on them too.

Have you posted before about their physical tantrums and falling to the floor? Seems familiar.
What about meeting at soft play? You can go and be with dc while dh supplies coffee....
Obviously nc would be the best scenario.
Looking back I am disappointed in myself that my ils ever got to see my dc.
Dc haven't missed out on gps. I have protected them from abuse as is my responsibility...

OP, you sound like a very reasonable, bright woman.
However, your husband is very weak and selfish.
He puts his needs ahead of his wife and children. End of.
Good husbands and fathers DO NOT do this.
It's very simple.
I have a good husband and father to my children. He would not tolerate anyone abusing me.

You are not seeing your husband as an equal. You are minding him and allowing him to control and facilitate your abusers.

Stop minding him and start minding your children and yourself.

Stand up for yourself.

If your husband falls to pieces because his parents go mental. So be it.
He's a weak, selfish man.

Your children deserve one parent who puts them first.

Plan on moving away, with or without your husband. Get your children away from these people.

Mind yourself.

Your DH is clinging onto hope that his parents will change, but how long is he prepared to wait? I think you need to draw a line in the sand here and set a deadline for him. Tell him that if the way they behave doesn't vastly improve in the next six months/year, then he has to admit defeat and agree to you moving. Then he can at least say he's tried.

Where do you and your children stand in all of this? How far will PIL be able to push it before your husband says enough, or before you call time on the marriage.

I would have no respect for a husband that allows his parents to abuse you, to get into your faces and scream and shout, and then asks you to be the bigger person. He's not giving them a chance to change, he's proving that the louder they shout the more he listens.

At what point will your DC realise that the PIL are rude/cruel/nasty about you and that actually dads okay with it. When will they turn this behaviour onto your children? When will your DC come home and tell you that 'Granny says you're crazy'.

Why are you subjecting your children to the same behaviours that your husband witnessed and still thinks are normal to this day? How are they supposed to learn about healthy relationships when they are surrounded by these toxic people.

It's a shame that you love your husband so much, as he obviously only cares about the relationship he has with his parents, making you and your shared children happy is not his number one priority.

And finally, when will you cotton on that you hold all the cards, if they want to see your children they have to abide by your rules. Even if they despise every single breath you take. They need to smile sweetly and be polite if they want to get within a 100 yards of them! The phone rings, PIL start the hysterics, DH calmly tells them he's not prepared to listen to this behaviour, they can call back when they are more composed and on and on until they learn to behave or stop calling.

This isn't health or right for anyone involved.

I would also be concerned they may become of the mindset that their dgc are 50%yours. Given how they feel abut you I would be even more invoked to keep them away.
Seriously op, when your dc grow up a bit and absord the conversations are they really supposed to be around such bastards?
Moving abroad sounds great. Tell dh he can Skype the dc every night....

I can pretty much guarantee your DH did not have a “normal” childhood. He will have learned early on how to behave in order to keep the peace with their unreasonable behaviour. When he started challenging them they turned in him. They had to, in order to control him as he had stepped out of line. I understand you wanting to give him time to come to these conclusions on his own, but I’m not sure he will. He’s doing everything to appease them and be the bigger person, but in reality he’s just towing the line to stop the outbursts which is exactly what they want. A few things to point out to him as not being “normal”...it is not normal to only be nice to your children so you can see your grandchildren (because you were threatened with NC for previous bad behaviour), it is not normal to have vandettas with family far less multiple family members, it is not normal for your wife to only want to meet your parents in a public place, it is not normal for adults to have full blown tantrums (WTAF?!) it is not normal to keep a newborn away from their mum because you want cuddles, it is not normal to be considering divorce from someone you love as a solution to not having to see your PIL but discounting the idea because you wouldn’t be able to limit contact, it is not normal to consider moving to a different country in order to avoid someone! I think therapy is definitely a great idea but I’d go with him and explain how the family dynamic works. If he tells a therapist that he needs help with conflict resolution then that’s the help he’ll get. He needs help coming to terms with the fact he had an abusive upbringing with controlling parents who are possibly going to break up his family. You all need help but it won’t matter how much time he gives them, they’ll still be assholes. Definitely limit contact to when you are there as that’s the only way you can monitor how they behave and what they say. In fact, suggest the LC to DH and say “Let’s see how they react. They’ve had plenty of time to change and they know that they need to behave to see the children. If they love you then they’d surely do this for you”. Does anyone he know have similar parents/PIL? How do friends get on with their families? Might help him get out of the FOG. Good luck and enjoy your new baby.

I haven't read all the comments but this is a seriously and I mean seriously fucked up situation.

So.lets be clear for you, that spineless wimp of a DH and your DC.

Your PILS are narcs. Your DH has been abused and conditioned his entire life. I strongly suspect he's a co-dependent Empath.

I read the one hour of yelling and screaming at you in your own home.

Very kindly, YOU grow a backbone and turf the fuckers out. Why are you standing for this outrageous behaviour? The minute someone even tries to wag their finger at me, I bite it off. I would NEVER in a million years treat someone the way they have you. For that, I have geuine sympathy.

Let's also be clear. They don't live their son, or you or the GC. All are appliances to be used for fuel.

This time is a precious one for you. You shouldn't have to be thinking aboit how to managed the poison PILS.

Hint - you cannot. They've been playing this game far longer than you.

And for your family. Sorry if I've been harsh. I just want to give your head a wobble.

Because babies.

He has reason to be scared of being cut off. They have cut off other immediate family members in the past

Do you think these other family members are bothered by this?

Who would being cut off affect?

His parents would miss out on a relationship with your DC....but for some reason he's desperate to be accepted by them.

I also can't understand why you'd move closer to these ppl. Regardless of no inheritance, it sounds like he's getting something from them ...based on this comment.

There is family history with PIL and our house which I think is part of the problem.

Him craving acceptance is a big part of the problem. I do agree with what the counsellor said though...about lowering his expectations. In addition to that he needs to implement boundaries.

Would you show your OH this thread?

Cut them off... I'd be cutting off the DH too .. he's a spineless DICK

Did they subsidise your house move? Is he feeling beholden?

Why does he need more time when he has had a life time if seeing what his parents are like?

I’d find him incredibly frustrating and annoying

I think it is fair to say no more contact without you there as they are now the age where they will absorb the poison. I really do. And that it needs to be somewhere public. You are their mum and entitled to safeguard your relationship with your children against talk of mummy's mental health.

That isn't making him choose, but your husband can deal with the fallout and decide where his priorities are.

Hey. I know I brought spineless to the table but I actually do feel for the DH. He has a mega fuckton of shit to unpack which i suspect he knows. He cannot unpack it until he's out if the FOG.

I think @SandyY2K makes an intresting point

I cannot believe your dh still takes the dc to see them. Why do you allow this? They will abuse your children the same way they have abused him and you. You surely can’t expose your children to this horrific relationship.

Your dh is weak and is not putting you first. This is horrible to read, OP. They have no rights to your dc. You need to move away, even if it is the other side of the city. They should never be allowed anywhere near your children without you being present to stop any of their histrionics and abusive behaviour.

You say you love your dh, but I cannot understand how when you can’t respect his failure to protect you and your children. If you had the choice, clearly you would never see his parents again.

It's painful to admit but I can't rely on DH to stand up to them.

Finally! You have a DH problem and he will allow his PIL to fuck up his children because he’s desperate for their approval. You can not prioritise what your H wants and what your children need because they are diametrically opposed.

OP you are what stands between your PIL and your PIL future abuse of your children.

Wise words @AgentJohnson

They are nasty abusive narcissists and I would have told them to FO long ago.

Your DH will never ever get their approval and he is kowtowing to these assholes at the expense of you and your DC.

If he won't tell these nasty abusers to fuck off, you'll have to.

Not only have your PILs told your DH that they don't want a relationship with him if he doesn't facilitate their access to your DCs, they have also attempted to put arrangements in place in which they have access to your DCs without having a relationship with him.

They don't love him or care about him. They wouldn't have anything to do with him if it weren't for your DCs. They do not want a relationship with him. He needs to understand that this is never going to get better.

Do you ever ask him to set a time limit by which things need to have improved or he will stop indulging them? There has to come a time when he faces up to the fact that they aren't going to change.

I would have left your dh rather than have another child with him. Ironic that you say he has a blind spot with them, but you are doing the exact same by not acknowledging that your real problem is HIM not them!
Do you realise if he didnt allow them to get away with this, then they wouldn't be a factor in your life.
Time for you to wake up OP, stop excusing him. He clearly gives a shit about your mental health.

You've posted about them before, haven't you? I remember the dropping to the floor thing. I admit I'm dying to know more about this particular part of their madness - do they sort of deliberately lower themselves to the floor as a kind of passive aggressive, behavioural full stop, or do they plump clean down in a rage, eyes rolling? Would love to be a fly on the wall

You need to stop being such a wet blanket. Your husband is spineless where his parents are concerned - it's a shame, and it's deeply unattractive, but we all have our Achilles heel..

It boils down to this: you need to make it so that standing up to his parents is a more desirable option than pissing you off. My PILS are fine, as is my husband, but DH knows that if pils did something to fuck me around, his life would become deeply uncomfortable, as I don't hide my light under a bushel.

Stop being a martyr to fairness and justice. These people don't play by your rules. They are batshit, and I can guarantee you that your wet rabbit of a hubby is secretly hoping you'll blow up, and he'll not have to see them much, if at all

Do I have the right to cut off their relationship with my DC though?

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes!

Your (and your DH's job) is to protect your children. This isn't happening.

@Goldmandra I've tried to set a time limit. When I was first pregnant I said i wanted it to improve by the end of my first trimester, so we would have my second trimester to find a new house and move well before the baby came. The time came and went and he still wants more time. At one point in that time they said they would go to mediation with DH, which was a huge step forward for them and it gave DH a lot of hope. but then that didn't eventuate. It was never mentioned again.

DH is also willing to settle for them not having a big scene in front of DC. He has set a very low bar for them. He doesn't expect them to stop criticising me, or apologise, or anything like that. They have managed a few months without a big scene in front of DC (they've been given very limited opportunities) which DH sees as progress.