I still feel really angry at DH - tell me how to let go

[JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff]

I need some straight talking.

DH and I met in 2008, married 2012, 3 dc (4yo and two babies). From the outside I imagine we look rock solid. But I just feel really angry all the time and I am scared it's poisoning things between us.

DH has always been crap taking the initiative and being assertive. Sometimes it has caused issues but mostly it's okay, we balance each other out.

Last year when I was pg I went through a very bad time MH wise. Frankly I am lucky to be here. I asked DH to support me and he seriously let me down, not once but twice.

For ages I thought about it all the time. It's less now but still most days. I cannot get past it and every time he's pissing me off (and let's face it, with small dc there will always be tension sometimes) it comes swooshing back into my head and I just want to tell him it's over.

But that would be really stupid. I need to snap out of it. Any advice please?

I think you need to make your anger more visible to him and keep pushing for him to open up. Without proper communication from both sides, and I mean you both baring all emotions and thoughts about what happened, there is just no hope for you as a couple. I agree with a pp, your anger is a totally natural response to trauma, don't let that go until you are both open to being healed, together. I have to say though, from what you have said, it does not sound like he is willing to go that far for the relationship. It's obviously painful to bare all, and too easy to chicken out..

Haven't had time to read the whole thread. Will do when I get the chance as the things you describe in op seem relevant to me. But just wanted to add one way I know I'm not doing well with anxiety and depression is I feel angry and irritated. I think this is quute a common way for these things to manifest

You have had an awful experience OP and I feel terribly sorry for you.

I do feel a bit sorry for your partner too. He promised to be strong for you, presumably he was acting in good faith at the time and believed he would be able to support you. Then when it actually came to it he couldn't override his difficulty with confrontation. He fucked up and he knows it.

There is nothing either of you can do to change things now. I agree that counselling might help you find a way to forgive him and put this behind you.

InParadisum

Thank you, that really resonates. Yes I get what you mean exactly. With DH it is alwayd up to me to make tough choices but when they go wrong it is "my fault". And yes to pissing off anyone but me.

Fizzy thanks.

Pennycarbonara
I think that is very insightful that as I am quite a forceful personality it "works" for me to be with someone less assertive. But.... I also feel like we are people not just personality types and sometimes we just need to step up.

One thing that is worrying me is there are possible redundancies looming st work. I am not in the pool now but it's a tough time. I am the major wage earner and I am frankly scared of what will happen if I lose my job bc I am no longer convinced I could rely on DH to help me, give me a shoulder to cry on, help me suss a new budget, think creatively about our future. I just think he might freeze. I can't carry us all the time.

I think counselling might be a good idea.

I can't carry us all the time.

Yes, exactly. This is exactly how I feel now: that I'm absolutely sick of being in charge all the time.

But I think he needs to be talking too. If not to a counsellor or therapist, then at least to you, and properly. Otherwise, how you're dealing with all of this is just another example of the buck stopping with you, yet again. I hope he can meet you half way on this.

OP google Pathological Demand Avoidance.

Does it sound like him?

FizzyGreenWater, wow, you must have known my Ex! A convert narcissist.

OP, If any of this rings bell for you then I think there could be significant underlying issues with your H. I hope it isn't the case and it was just his lack of thoughtfulness but you describe feeling so low and that often is a result of sustained lack of support. I was similar after DC, thought I was not coping but the reality is at every stage Ex failed me. It was due to his complete self centredness and protection of his image. He would never have my back unless it suited him. However the relationship worked because I was the major wage earner, when that changed he no longer had to hide his contempt.

The consultant has years of experience and obviously a medicialised birth was necessary to ensure a healthy mother and baby. Otherwise you would have been in a position to choose other options. It's unfair to expect your husband to argue with a highly skilled medical professional who is trying to produce the safest outcome for his wife and child.

The parking issue was stupid but people can do stupid things under stress.

You're far from perfect so why are you expecting your husband to be?

JuniFora

Well I guess I asked for straight talking!
I do not expect him to be perfect but I do expect him to have my back.

A medicalised birth was not necessary, actually. I ended up accidentally freebirthing (no pain relief, no one else there) and actually in the end we are all fine. Also a medicalised birth that results in a suicidal mother is not okay by me, and shouldn't be okay by any doctor.

OP I understand and I am still struggling with my DH.

I had a traumatic birth and my DH was a contributing factor during and after but he won’t admit any of this even in a I didn’t intend to let you down but I did type of way. In my case I almost freebirthed a back to back baby with no pain relief.

My DH won’t admit he played any part in my birth trauma or that he let me down during the birth or in the months afterwards when I was very unwell both physically and mentally. In fact he used to come home as late possible to avoid helping me speaking to me or giving me any rest.

It makes me worry that if I ever had a heart attack or cancer I would be left to cope and struggle by myself. I know that I would never dream of leaving him to fend for himself obviously in pain and scared

I’ve begged him numerous times to go to marriage counselling but he won’t go. He won’t go as his view is that there is nothing to discuss and he doesn’t want to be stuck in a room with me crying explaining how crap he was. It’s 18 months ago and it’s still eating me up inside.

Littlemiss wow, that is scarily similar. My twins are 15mo and DS was also back to back! He was quite small and I don't experience strong feelings of pain in labour, thank God. Can only imagine what it must be like with "normal contractions". DH has also refused couples counselling as he says it is only for people with something wrong in their marriage. I veer between thinking I should only get counselling if we are actually at the point of divorce to thinking that in fact it is a good way to work through problems.

Thank you to everyone who posted, it has given me a lot to think about and I am going back over the posts still.

@lifebegins50 @JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff

I'm so sorry for what you have both gone through and for the lack of love, care and support your husbands showed you when you were so vulnerable.

They are both short sighted and/or selfish in not agreeing to counselling with you but I don't think you should stop their non-involvement in stopping you going alone as you may each get help and clarity by discussing your situations calmly to a neutral professional.

Whether or not you do go, I hope you manage to reach some sort of resolution which works for you. 🌹

I divorced Ex as he became very aggresssive when I tried to enforce boundaries. This article, by Elinor Greenberg, at the time helped me to understand his behaviour and it may help someone else. The empathy point was a light bulb moment and the idea that you will never get an apology.

"Here are the top 5 behaviors that Narcisstic clients say that they expect from their spouses, but don’t always get:

1. Continuous praise: Only praise, no criticism—no matter what they are doing. And criticism is defined very broadly to include never giving them advice.

1. One-Mindedness: You must always be on the same page as them. Narcissistic individuals are unable to recognize that others can be right, without it making them wrong.

1. Mind Reading: They believe you should know without being told what they are thinking and what they want right now.

1. One-Way Empathy: They expect you to see every interaction from their point of view. I am not exaggerating here. For example, one wife got cancer and her husband complained that she wasn’t focused enough on his feelings. He wanted her to say: “My getting cancer must be very difficult for you. You must be very disappointed that I have to spend so much time in the hospital instead of being available to do fun things with you!”

1. Perfection: Anything you do less than perfectly reflects badly on them in their mind. Similarly, you can do 100 nice things, but the one time you fall short, it will wipe the slate clean in their mind. They will become just as angry with you as if you had never done anything good.

Most spouses of Narcissists are unable to meet these unreasonable expectations, nor do they want to. It seems too unfair and one-sided. This leads to a lot of fights where the Narcissistic spouse attacks the other spouse and tries to convince them that their demands are totally reasonable and the non-compliant spouse is totally wrong. At this point there are only a few strategies that help. Here are the ones that I have found work best:

• It is not personal: Don’t take anything your Narcissistic spouse says to you personally. They are over sensitive and expect too much from you.

• Think of them as having a disability. Make as many kind and empathic statements as possible. They have a self-esteem regulation problem and need your help. Part of the disability involves being unable to admit that they have problems. Instead they will blame you and anyone else for everything that goes wrong.

• Don’t confront them: Again, they feel unable to take the hit of admitting that they are wrong. Confronting them most often leads to a terrible fight that can go on for a long time and which continues to escalate till you finally admit that they are right and you are wrong, one of you leaves, or you really hurt one another.

• Set Boundaries: Don’t let your Narcissistic spouse take over running your life. Many are quite intrusive and micromanaging. For example, you want to go back to college and finish your degree and he likes the way things are with you home and always available to him. Or you want to go out with your friends one night a week. Draw the line firmly, without fighting (if possible) and say something empathic like “I know this isn’t ideal for you.” But make sure you don’t cave in, if it is about something really important to you. Your spouse will complain, but will adjust if you are firm and consistent.

• Use “we” language: Narcissists are more likely to respond well if you phrase your complaint as something both of you do instead of blaming them.

Say: “We could both have done that better. Why don’t we both try and be kinder.”

Don’t Say: “You are wrong and you need to apologize to me for all the nasty things that you said.”

• The No-Fault Do-Over: Your spouse will not apologize to you because apologizing means admitting that he or she did something wrong. If you hold out for an apology, no matter how justified you are, it will just lead to more fighting. I have invented the simple strategy that I call “The No-Fault Do-Over” to cope with this situation. It works well with non-Narcissists too.

Say: “I love you and you love me and I know we both want things to go better. We seem to have both taken a wong turn somewhere and ended up in a fight. Let’s just agree to a “No-Fault Do-Over” and try again.”

Don’t Say: “I demand an apology!”

• The Ultimatum: Sometimes nothing works well enough and the non-Narcissistic spouse finds the situation intolerable. If you are so fed up that you are ready to leave, you can insist that your spouse enter therapy with someone very well trained in Narcissistic disorders. I have seen this type of ultimatum work. Many Narcissistic spouses know they have been taking advantage of you and treating you poorly, but they will need professional help to make changes and learn new strategies.

• Couple Counseling: Unfortunately, I have rarely had success with sending my clients out for Couple Counseling because most counselors have no specialized training in how to deal with Narcissistic clients. If you decide to go this route, pick someone highly experienced and don’t expect them to take sides and support you by telling your spouse that he is wrong. A good couple counselor usually aims to facilitate better communication and the negotiation of differences between the partners and will not choose sides.

• Separation and Divorce: Some Narcissistic spouses and the situations that they create are so toxic to your health and well-being that you feel endangered. If you are being physically abused or the mental and verbal abuse is making you feel extremely depressed and hopeless, you may need to leave. A bit of advice: make your plans before you tell your mate—find a lawyer, get any paperwork you need, find a place to live—as he or she is unlikely to be generous and gracious and will likely try and punish you for leaving"

Elinor Greenberg, PhD, CGPIn private practice in NYC and the author of the book: Borderline,Narcissistic, and Schizoid Adaptations: The Pursuit of Love, Admiration, and Safety. www.elinorgreenberg.com

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To be honest OP, you sound like hard work.

"Everytime he's pissing me off" 🙄

He can't piss you off. Your emotions are your own. Stop blaming others.

And the fact that he left you for an hour during birth is a bit shit, but hardly traumatic. If something went badly wrong he would be made to leave the unit anyway, and you'd have to cope on your own.

It looks like what you have is PTSD from the birth trauma.
You can’t ask anyone to get over that and draw a line in the sand just like that.

I think you need counselling around the birth, not helped by the previous trauma.
Yu also need to discussion with your DH about the situation now. Not about looking for someone responsible and telling him he is or the consultant was pour whatever. (Even though it sounds like he thinks he is the one guilty and would prefer to forget about it all).
Bit about the fact it has affected your MH a lot and you need support. What do you think he can do to support you?
What would help you regain trust in him?

Outout I hope you will never have any MH issues or be in need of support.

You have no clue at all.

Thanks Egg. I don't know about birth trauma. I don't go back over the birth so much as what the staff said and how much I was panicking.

Outout fgs it is an expression! We have 3dc under 4.5, both work..... we get on each other's tits sometimes cos we're strung out. That's just life.

I asked him not to leave bc I was in a massive state. For months previously, I had been having panic attacks, unable to sleep, getting up at 3am to walk through the streets... by the day of the birth I was next door to suicidal. I thought constantly, obsessively, about killing myself and brought a box full of prescription painkillers packed in my hospital bag so if they did something to me I couldn't cope with, I would have an exit. I do really think thatwhen someone is in that state and asks not to be left, they should be helped.

I think an option for the best way forward is to accept he isn't reliable when it comes to advocating for you and arrange for someone else to be there, without even asking him.

Say it as a statement... that after last time I don't feel I can rely on you in such situations and the thought of you letting me down is causing anxiety, so I have made arrangements for support from [insert name]

My way of dealing with such issues is to lower my expectations and avoid disappointment. It's difficult to accept he is unreliable or weak.... but in order to move forward you need to accept he isn't capable or doesn't have it in his character to be your support in such situations.

I've not been in your exact position where you needed to get your view across to the Specialist ...but I wouldn't get my DH to back me up in that scenario. He avoids conflict (except with me) , even when the other person is blatantly wrong and it takes a lot to offend him where other ppl are concerned. He would rather ignore ppl than have a fallout.

My DFather is the same...and I saw DMs frustrations growing up...which made her stronger and quite fiesty, which has rubbed of on me....where I vocalise strongly for myself and the DC.

Acceptance is the key. It's who he is.

Who puts an hour parking for a wife in labour anyway? That was with child number 3 as well....so he can't say he has no idea.
Seriously...one job. Just one job to be there while your wife is in labour and he fucked up.

That would seriously have pissed me off to say the least.

For months previously, I had been having panic attacks, unable to sleep, getting up at 3am to walk through the streets... by the day of the birth I was next door to suicidal. I thought constantly, obsessively, about killing myself and brought a box full of prescription painkillers packed in my hospital bag so if they did something to me I couldn't cope with, I would have an exit.
That sounds rather alarming OP and I'm sorry you feel so desperate at times.

Have you considered speaking to the Samaritans when you are feeling so bad - perhaps they can help?🌷

https://www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help/contact-samaritan/talk-us-phone//_

Id say marriage counseling that works best is before you're at the end of you marriage. Honestly I'd say it's almost too late for yours. There's no way back from who he is.

I know I'm not helpful but I struggle to see how you can have a meaningful relationship with someone who abandons you during a traumatic, dangerous and anxious time.

I don't want to diagnose you over the internet, but you sound a lot like me in some of your reactions and I'm being treated for severe PTSD after birth. After a few sessions I am starting to feel the difference.

I expect I might get shouted at for saying this, but I'm guessing you love him (enough that you married him and had children), so in your place I really would think about counselling, and keep trying to work through it together.

He's done some odd things there that I wouldn't expect or want, but it sounds like he's had his share of pressure too if you were depressed and anxious and suicidal for a long time, along with the usual worries of expecting a larger family. Maybe he wasn't quite thinking right either? Maybe he thought he could do those things and then realised he couldn't say too late?

(And I know you've had it harder, I'm absolutely not saying it was okay or trying to turn it into a competition there, but he's human and we all panic and fail sometimes, especially under pressure.)

I'm not saying this to be horrible, but I honestly think you're being ridiculous. You had a highly trained medical professional, telling you the safest way to deliver your babies, and you thought you knew better? And you wanted your DH to argue this with them (I assume he isn't medically trained), and should you have died in labour, he'd have to live with that? Fucking hell! You sound like you just tried to railroad him into agreeing with you, which would be extremely hard when the doctor was outlining all the risks you'd be taking.

You seem to be ruining your own lives, and for what? You've got THREE healthy babies. Some women never have any, despite years of trying. You have them, and all you can do is fixate on their births? Why? I just don't get it?

I had 2 traumatic births. So what? So have millions of women, since the dawn of time. You're not different.

You have SO MUCH to be grateful for. I have no idea why you are sabotaging your life over this?

Husky tbh I don't really know either. I cannot stop the dreams and thoughts though. That is what I am trying to get my head around. I guess it is impossible for anyone to understand why some people cannot get past certain events.

Wrt the consultant, I didn't want to derail the thread by going into all the circs, but fwiw she was not explaining why I personally needed certain interventions. She was explaining hospital policy. At my hospital it is policy for all multiple mums to labour with an epidural in situ on their backs in a room full of people. Given my history I thought that would really really fuck me up mentally so I asked her what the risks were of NOT labouring like that v the risk of me having a serious breakdown after. She couldn't quantify it but said she thought I would probably be okay bc I had given birth successfully vaginally in the past and both twins were head down. But it was hospital policy anyway for me to have an epidural etc.

Yeah I argued. Mental health is health. Someone killing themselves is just as dead as someone dying from a pph. I did not feel she was taking into account all the facts in making her plans. At the end of the day my health is my own responsibility and I was not going to take that risk.

As for DH, I gave him an out repeatedly. He didn't have to go there with me if he didn't agree.

Aparl I think you are right that he probably "had a moment". I am not really in a good position to be making decisions now so will look into counselling for myself first.

Husky btw I didn't mean to sound dismissive of your point. I agree that feeling this way is counterproductive but I cannot just stop.

The hospital stuff just panicked me hugely as it brought back memories of being raped. I tried to work with the hospital to reach a compromise plan but they were very my way or the highway. I know some people feel that whatever a dr says is right, but I just honestly don't agree and think patients have the right to refuse treatments. Medicine is rarely clear cut and in a non emeregency situation like a planned labour there is not necessarily only one way to do things.