LEAVING sulking H

[jamaisjedors]

I can't believe this is my third thread.

I first posted in December about my H's sulking and silent treatment - I was ready to leave then but then got persuaded to give it another go.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking?msgid=84022238

My second thread is where everyone helped me work through what was going on, helped IRL by individual and joint counselling.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3498886-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking-part2?msgid=85957683

We have now made a joint decision to separate, and I have found somewhere to live.

I don't regret not leaving in January because I have had time to process a lot of things, confide in friends, and come to understand a lot of things about myself and H.

However, sometimes I think it would have been a lot easier to power my way out of the door whilst still fuelled with a lot of anger.

Right now I am mostly very very sad.

Today seemed like a reasonably good day, H and I managed to discuss childcare arrangements up til the school holidays quite calmly and sensibly.

We each spent time doing fun things with the DC and H is actually encouraging them to get a little excited about the new house and buying new furniture etc.

But I have just been hit by a massive wave of sadness again after overhearing part of a conversation between DC1 and a friend. DC1 was saying that he had no idea at all this was coming and had never seen us argue or fight.

I was sure they were at least aware of the horrible atmosphere, particularly over the last few months so it's a bit of slap in the face to realise they had no idea at all and this must seem totally incomprehensible to them.

Long time lurker here, in scandinaa. We are generally advised to tape over cameras on devices, as they are very easy to hack into. Campaigns have been running on television to promote this.

Doctor may not have wanted to go down that road in that meeting. Re camera

It's very good that the psych wanted to hear your version of events. Being a psychiatrist he will be well aware that his patients' perceptions of what is happening don't match reality other people's perceptions and that there would have been a lot more than H was telling him.

It's good to know he thinks H is safe to have the dcs while on his meds even though you very sensibly want to get more reassurance. Could you use that information to stipulate that H must agree to continue taking the meds in order to fulfil any custody agreement?

It really sounds like you managed to get everything out of this meeting and put everything in to the meeting that you had planned. You genuinely couldn't have hoped for anything more. That's a proper success. Bloody well done!

Sounds lime you managed to get across what you needed to say. Well done

Thanks for the encouragement... I still feel at a bit of a loss about what to do about visits with the dc because in my divorce petition we ask for daytime weekend visits and now this Dr is saying it's fine for the dc to be with him.

And I'm not sure how to handle the summer either.

H's sister has left me a message to say the family are going to offer to go on holiday with H in August but I'm not sure if he'll accept.

In the immediate future, H is seeing the dc tomorrow, he wanted to pick them up from the house but the Dr told him no so he will pick them up somewhere nearby and neutral. Just daytime.

I worry that if I agree to 2 weeks in the summer it will look weird given I'm asking for full custody, but on the other hand this psychiatrist is giving the go ahead and legally I can't refuse...

You have a number of things to be concerned about and it's ok not to know what to do yet.

Focus on the priority - tomorrow and work out your best outcome for that - you will have time to decide the best way forward for the times that come after - anything could change between now and then.

So for now - whats your best plan for tomorrow?

I suppose you can say you need evidence he is still taking his medication?

Can I just say, what you have written is that his doctor is not saying it's fine for the DC to be with him in the weeks/months ahead.

The doctor has said it is fine for the DC to be with him if he is in his current state now, as he is in the clinic, taking his medication.

The doctor has also said he did not have the full picture of what has happened, including the episode where he has already given up taking meds as soon as he was unsupervised.

The doctor has also enforced to him that it's daytime only, pickups not from the house - so he is definitely falling for everything he says. This was also clear from how keen he was to get collateral history from you, he knows that a lot of what STBXH says is the words of an ill man.

So this is very different from the doctor saying, yes, absolutely, it is fine for him to have the DCs whenever, wherever.

I would read that as the doctor being quite cagey and not wanting to be pinned down - after all, STBXH hasn't tried leaving the clinic yet so his behaviour on doing so is a risk.

I believe the road to recovery, is lots of sleep, and rest. & strict adherence to meds. I would think that having to entertain 2 youths is not compatible.
The drugs will make him lethargic, he won't be up for it. & l'm saying this independently of thinking the less interaction he has with them the better

Oops definitely NOT falling for everything he says.

Wish there was an edit button.

No real plan for tomorrow apart from H picking up the dc at 11am and dropping them back at 4.30.

There's nothing I can do about that, the Dr suggested it himself.

Plan is to see my lawyer in Monday and talk it over with her. Try to get a plan so the dc are mostly with someone else or with Me nearby if H has them in the summer

Not you. That’s what he wants. You’re going to have to let them suck up some dodgy behaviour and see what he’s like for themselves. Sorry. If he breaches agreement, then he plays into your hands.

That's true, but I honestly don't want him to mess up his future relationship by taking things too fast with contact with the dc.

Everyone seems to take this as me "stopping him" seeing the kids when all I want for them is for them to have a normal dad and a normal relationship with him so I want him to take this seriously and get himself well.

I don't want my kids to have a dad who is in and out of psychiatric institutions but he has to interpret everything I do as against him.

I can't see any way forward for this apart from a long legal battle and then regimented custody agreements even down to when he can and can't phone and that is so far from what would work for the kids that it makes me sick to the stomach to think about it.

It also sticks in my throat to be lectured by the Dr about thinking of the kids in all of this and being told to stop behaving in a conflictual way.

I honestly can't see what I am doing that is aggressive or stoking the fire of conflict and am sick of friends also saying I need to appease H and stop fighting with him.

I'm just fighting to get some information to keep my self and my kids safe. It's so unfair and it's driving me insane.

Recognise that have all learnt to appease him and they are incapable of seeing and realising that it is not ok for your DC to lose their sense of selves appeasing him.

He has trained everyone so well that they cannot even see the dynamic that is going on...

Sounds like you handled the meeting really well. I really hope H’s family go with him on holiday. It would be great if more people can witness unstable behavior

Let’s just assume that you HAVE done your research on people with diagnosed Paranoid Personality Disorders and actually know for a fact that if you are not with him then you ARE against him (in his delusional world) and understand completely what you are facing. You are about to divorce the guy. You are trying to do so in a way that affects your children in the least harmful way possible - and he goes and throws himself into a mental hospital after having a massive break from reality which he is now denying. Ahem.... I think it is time to shore yourself up, stop listening to friends who are telling you to appease the whims of someone who is diagnosed and witnessed as being unstable and inconsistent and just get on with what works best for you and the kids. Stop dialoging with them at all about this. You will find that their motives are probably more in line with what works best for themselves. (ie - takes the pressure off them.) Speak to your lawyer ASAP. Take this in with you. You have notes which state that Dr does not think overnight is a good idea yet, and is contradictory while appeasing H. The psych has said that there is a distinct likelihood of H relapsing if he goes off his meds again, was unaware that this was not his first rodeo. You need to be ready with independent psych evaluation and custody order before Psych goes on holiday. I honestly think this is the most valuable info you have taken from this meeting.

Personality Disorders are considered by psychiatrists to be in the “Too Hard Basket”. If they are untreated and do not have consistent, effective, long-term therapy before they are 30, they are the most manipulative and most likely to muck around with meds and hurt people. They form unreliable and unstable relationships and do a lot of damage as parents. (There are a lot of boards on here attesting to this fact, and I am the product of two parents with personality disorders, and my brother has one as well. The damage has been terrible.) They lie, manipulate, gaslight, have convenient memory loss, change their history completely, steal other people’s stories, alternate between being the hero and the victim and they just don’t change, because they can’t. Their needs are immediate and all encompassing. They eclipse those of everyone else at all cost.

& suddenly he goes from being the bullying manipulative EA who drove his wife to urgently leave her own home. To being someone you should trust & cover with compassion.
Everyone is conveniently forgetting the underlying person he is, they seem to only have read the last chapter of the book, where the poor soul has had a breakdown because you "pushed him over the edge"
Justilou is right. You know he is a master manipulator. You want a divorce & safety for yourself & DC. You have to close out all the complacent peripheral noise

Put on your amour Jamais...

1.I want him to take this seriously and get himself well.
With the greatest respect - this is not your responsibility - only he can do this and from past experience he is unlikely to. He will stay ill for as long as it serves him.

1. I don't want my kids to have a dad who is in and out of psychiatric institutions.

Sadly this is the dad they have. It will help to give DC as many tools needed to deal with the situation - this also means allowing them to see the truth of who he is. None of us get perfect mums or dads but often over time this provides us with the best opportunity for growth and development.

1. I honestly don't want him to mess up his future relationship by taking things too fast with contact with the dc.

Again this is not down to you. Thankfully you are only responsible for your relationship with DC - we are not responsible for the actions of anyone else.

Set yourself free - stick to only what is down to you - you cannot control this circus - it's not your job at all. You are the warm centred balanced place of peace that offers your DC the love they need to deal with their life.

I know its hard but the sooner you completely detach from H the better - it's unlikely anyone else will really understand the supreme effort you put in to keep your marriage looking normal (whatever normal is!)

Now it's time to use that strength for you. It's ok to let go, to move on and leave H wherever he chooses to be.

It might be worth a read of 'Co-dependant No More' by Melody Beatty.

Let’s just assume that you HAVE done your research on people with diagnosed Paranoid Personality Disorders and actually know for a fact that if you are not with him then you ARE against him (in his delusional world) and understand completely what you are facing

You are right, I have read up extensively and talked it over with my psychologist too.

I think my frustration is that I don't think his psychiatrist is taking this seriously enough, and also just a general whine to the mners kind enough to put up with my moaning.

I know I have to be strong I'm just cracking a little under the strain here and wishing I could just hide in bed and make it all go away

One thing I DON'T wish is to go back to my marriage, another thing to thank mn for- every day that goes by I realised how bad things really were and I can only regret not leaving sooner.

KOKO

As I said your friends/associates are so used to dancing to his tune they can't even see it. You have had your eyes opened, you know he was aggressive with the DC you know he will manipulate and use them because he already has their whole lives only now you are the enemy and he will cause them conflict

Jamais - have been keeping up with your thread and you have done so well to get this far.

With the greatest of respect, please safeguard your children - I would not allow him access to them, he is dangerous.

If you refuse, it will mean that the courts will become involved and the whole situation will be out in the open. No more secrets, gaslighting, lying.

Then you will be able to make the best decision for your children in full view of everyone.

I don't mean to be harsh, but every time I read that he is having the children, it is red flags for me.

Some really great posts on here.

Jamais, the key concern is keeping the kids safe. I don't want to spell it out... Regardless of what it may look like, what others think, there is a clear risk.

I appreciate you need to keep the psychs sweet but, ultimately, you need to keep your kids (physically) safe. That's the first priority. Don't take your eye off the ball with that or be overawed by the professionals. He isn't safe to be alone with the children.

You don't need to be the good guy here, you need to protect your kids xx

To a certain extent I agree, every time he has contact it sets a precedent. but you always ensured a 3rd party was present. until the friend stopped supporting you but it's a learning curve, you were trying & being kept away from the professionals so uninformed of what was advisable. so without any knowledge of his mental state, you only had his "standard father performance" to go with, where he was just "Dad".