LEAVING sulking H

[jamaisjedors]

I can't believe this is my third thread.

I first posted in December about my H's sulking and silent treatment - I was ready to leave then but then got persuaded to give it another go.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking?msgid=84022238

My second thread is where everyone helped me work through what was going on, helped IRL by individual and joint counselling.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3498886-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking-part2?msgid=85957683

We have now made a joint decision to separate, and I have found somewhere to live.

I don't regret not leaving in January because I have had time to process a lot of things, confide in friends, and come to understand a lot of things about myself and H.

However, sometimes I think it would have been a lot easier to power my way out of the door whilst still fuelled with a lot of anger.

Right now I am mostly very very sad.

Today seemed like a reasonably good day, H and I managed to discuss childcare arrangements up til the school holidays quite calmly and sensibly.

We each spent time doing fun things with the DC and H is actually encouraging them to get a little excited about the new house and buying new furniture etc.

But I have just been hit by a massive wave of sadness again after overhearing part of a conversation between DC1 and a friend. DC1 was saying that he had no idea at all this was coming and had never seen us argue or fight.

I was sure they were at least aware of the horrible atmosphere, particularly over the last few months so it's a bit of slap in the face to realise they had no idea at all and this must seem totally incomprehensible to them.

I very much doubt I can record the meeting and to be honest I'm not sure it's in my interest because I'm not going to ONLY use his pyschiatrist's "opinion" to decide on contact for the children.

I think my approach needs to be "How can I facilitate contact with the children while keeping them safe?" and outline my plan - gradually increasing contact over the summer, in September they stay with me and do some weekends or overnights with their dad while we see how he reacts to starting back at work, and then reassess before/at Christmas.

I guess the information I want from the psychiatrist is HIS view about how things will evolve in the short term and in the long term for H's health so that I can make my own decisions about what is suitable for the children.

I'm still undecided about sending the psychiatrist information before our meeting. He might think I'm trying to interfere or go behind H's back and so already be predisposed against me when I meet him on Saturday.

On the other hand, if I wait until afterwards and what I say goes against his conclusions about H, it will just look petty and like I don't trust "an expert".

Will H will be outraged if you insinuate he may be of harm to DC, ? (if so very good plan) unless he is able to control his emotions & hide his anger. as he does historically, where his "public" persona is different

I think he will be outraged if I suggest he might harm them.

In which case I can sweetly point out that of course I know that he loves his children dearly and would never deliberately harm them, but that while he is still mentally ill, he is not himself and may do things he would not "normally" do (like get taken away by the police!!!).

I would have a list of the behaviours that are worrying.
Religious acts
Patch over phone
Etc
So if he says I'm no threat you can list them calmly.

He also has a history putting himself before every person in his family. Ex
Your bday w/e
Personal shopping on DC bday
You must gave dozens of examples

@Mix56 i certainly do have loads of examples but I'm not sure the psychiatrist will be interested, a social worker might be though.

As far as I can tell, the psychiatrist has his patient's interest at heart and so if he thinks it will be good for H to see the dc, he will recommend it. He has never seen the dc or seen H with them.

I'm not saying that if he saw them interacting he would necessarily be worried, it's just the long term prognosis and how to organise the transition out of the clinic that is worrying me.

One positive thing yesterday is that dc2 said that he is thinking about moving schools to the one in our new town.

He has seen how much the ferrying around has been a pain for him (and me) and realises that if he moves to that school he can walk there and back and be independent.

Schools here are organised more around the teachers' time tables than the pupils' and there is little supply cover so some days he might start at 10am or finish at 2pm and then there is no bus after 8am or before 4pm.

This was already a pain for him living in the old house. In the new house he would be totally dependant on me for lifts and that would fit around my working hours.

If he does decide to change, it will be a lot easier for me (and him) if for example his dad is back in hospital and he is with me more than 50/50 (which is highly likely at the start anyway).

@greenwaterbottle yes to the list so as not up forget anything.

I have done a first version and sent it to the friends who have been visiting him.

It's not in English so I can't cut and paste here but it's a mix of previous suggestions.

I will post it later or tomorrow from my computer.

Although the DC may not yet be voicing it they may actually not wanting 50:50...

We have just got back from a joint psychologist's appointment, she saw the d's first and then me with them.

They said that for the moment they want 50/50 but she warned them this may not be immediate and we should let H rest so he can recover more quickly.

She also encouraged Dc2 to think about changing schools which was good I think.

Dc1 is seeing her again next week, her colleague will see dc2 .

All sounding more positive for the boys

That's good the they are clear what they want and his odd behaviour hasn't worried them.

I haven't much to offer in the way of advice, just wishing you continued strength.

I think it is wise to reiterate to psychiatrist that you have no interest in being involved in H’s rehabilitation or mental health care plan, except if it begins to affect the kids. I suspect this is why you are being brought into this meeting.

I'm going against the grain here and I think there is no meeting set up. I'll be very very surprised if there is

He does have an agenda, you.

You left him and he lost control he wants that back to control you so he'll start the mind games of appointments not really made but made and he'll say it was a miss understanding or you read it wrong from the emails or verbal you heard wrong if talking to him.

He can't use the silent treatment on you but can on the kids to get at you too be aware of this too.

its all about control regardless of a dx for him. It doesn't take away he was an arsehole too.

Imagine getting to the hospital to discover there was no appointment, (we have all mentioned we think it's unlikely on a Saturday.) What would be the point, other than H saying he had understood there was an appointment, (ie he said that is what he wanted & his wishes are always conceded) he would look even more deranged. Yes, it will be a waste of time & brainstorming, but ultimately H is going to prove he is unstable.

In the UK you wouldn’t be seeing a Psychiatrist on a Saturday for a planned meeting. You would also be invited to this by letter. I am not sure why your not calling yourself? It’s not a breach of confidentiality to ask the medical team if you have been invited to an appointment and confirm what time. I would also stop facilitating contact with your DC until you have assurances that he is safe.

My concern would be getting to the hospital, being shown to a room, and ending up being shut in with H for an hour while he harranges and tries to manipulate you. Im guessing though that the receptionist there will know about the meeting, and if its a no show then you can leave before H knows you are there. I dont trust him as far as I can spit!

I have been following your threads since the first one but haven’t commented.

If does happen with the psychiatrist it is very important for you to explain the behaviours from H that were not normal for him - the shrine, the tape over the phone etc. The psychiatrist doesn’t know H from before and won’t know what his ‘normal’ is. H will be trying very hard to come across as ok.

I know you want some guarantees about the dcs safety but I doubt you will get that from the meeting. And I doubt the psychiatrist will get involved in arrangements for access. He would presumably provide a report though.

I know it’s very different but my mum was in hospital at one point and I had to speak to a doctor about her care (they wanted to discharge her) and he said she was a ‘very pleasant elderly lady with dementia’. Except she hadn’t had ‘dementia’ before she went in to hospital. He didn’t know her ‘normal’.

His agenda will be show he isn’t as bad as they thnk but his wife is.

It’ll be subtle but there, and psychiatrists have been fooled too.

He also has a history putting himself before every person in his family. Ex
Your bday w/e
Personal shopping on DC bday

Please ignore. Do not dilute a serious issue with dozens of petty incidents albeit feel horrible to experience.

Focus on the serious stuff. The really serious issues that a professional would be genuinely concerned about. Sulking on your birthday weekend is not a cause for outside concern

the point was, that selfishness & delusions of grandeur are common symptoms of someone with psychosis
Jamais I expect you have looked up paranoia?
www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/192621.php

Hope the meeting goes well Jamais.

Good luck tomorrow Jamais.

Thanks all.

I spoke to my psychologist today about the appointment.

She thinks the psychiatrist will be interested to see the dynamic between us and probably to check (discreetly) whether some of the stuff H has been saying is true - whether I am bullying or abusing him etc.

She suggests going in all sweetness and light, and not discussing legal considerations at all.

So being concerned about H's welfare (seeing as how I have had no direct news for 3 weeks since he left the hospital for the clinic) above all and asking about whether he will possibly ever be able to return to work again, how to facilitate his convalescence etc.

Re the kids, she suggested speaking to H directly saying "perhaps you don't remember but you had to be taken away by the police and I'm sure you don't want the dc to have to witness that"

" there are some things that are a bit worrying, can you explain why Dc2 cane home with black tape on his phone?"
"Is there a reason you keep asking the dc for our new address even when friends have told you that I don't want you to have it yet and I explained in an email why this was"

"Do you remember that you were reading the bible with dc2 in the morning for more than 30 minutes?, are you still reading the bible and seeing signs everywhere?"
Etc etc. With concerned questions about how day release works, how long H will be at the clinic, is H able to look after himself if he goes home alone ?
She says that if the dr considers H paranoid (not schizophrenic because neither of us believe he is), he will NOT say this in front of H because then he will lose all trust. He will probably talk about fatigue or burnout because this will be more acceptable for H's pride and keep his trust but might allude to the delusions.

But I can definitely ask if they are have found a treatment which is helping H to get better.

So it was good to talk to her and get a realistic idea of what the Dr can tell me and why He is seeing me.

She thinks the Saturday appointment (not that unusual in a private clinic) is probably because the Dr is on call over that period anyway.

Our friend is coming with me to wait with both of us before the appointment and to support me afterwards so I'm not alone with H.

That all sounds manageable I hope it goes well