LEAVING sulking H

[jamaisjedors]

I can't believe this is my third thread.

I first posted in December about my H's sulking and silent treatment - I was ready to leave then but then got persuaded to give it another go.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking?msgid=84022238

My second thread is where everyone helped me work through what was going on, helped IRL by individual and joint counselling.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3498886-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking-part2?msgid=85957683

We have now made a joint decision to separate, and I have found somewhere to live.

I don't regret not leaving in January because I have had time to process a lot of things, confide in friends, and come to understand a lot of things about myself and H.

However, sometimes I think it would have been a lot easier to power my way out of the door whilst still fuelled with a lot of anger.

Right now I am mostly very very sad.

Today seemed like a reasonably good day, H and I managed to discuss childcare arrangements up til the school holidays quite calmly and sensibly.

We each spent time doing fun things with the DC and H is actually encouraging them to get a little excited about the new house and buying new furniture etc.

But I have just been hit by a massive wave of sadness again after overhearing part of a conversation between DC1 and a friend. DC1 was saying that he had no idea at all this was coming and had never seen us argue or fight.

I was sure they were at least aware of the horrible atmosphere, particularly over the last few months so it's a bit of slap in the face to realise they had no idea at all and this must seem totally incomprehensible to them.

yes, and keep in mind, and keep REMINDING, that this is not couples counselling where he gets to go through your faults and why you are to blame. This meeting is solely about the best interests of the children
Who no doubt are now thriving in your new home
As no doubt are you.

I would bring up your concern regarding the paranoid behaviour that H is currently exhibiting regarding taping the phone and telling the children that people are spying on them. Emphasize to the psych that you are concerned about the effects on the children of being exposed to such paranoia.

If H is in the meeting with you and the psychiatrist, you could take the opportunity to ask him why he taped up the kids' phones.

He either, i) maintains that people are spying on him, in which case the psychiatrist has to explain how this ongoing belief isn't going to impact on the DC (when it already has), or ii) acknowledge he was being irrational and paranoid only 1 week ago, in which case the psychiatrist needs to explain what's changed in the last week?

I imagine he'll probably react quite badly to having his paranoia pointed out and discussed so openly. Which might add more evidence that his behaviour isn't yet under control sufficiently for the DCs.

Thanks for all the advice.

I've had an email from H's sister, she says H is telling his aunt and other people that it's just a case of mild burn out and he just needs to rest.

She is worried he is ignoring the underlying pathology, and I agree.

So this would explain why the psychiatrist thinks there is no problem with H being with the dc etc.

Worrying because as one of you said, he will inevitably stop taking the treatment and relapse.

Unfortunately I've now been told by two separate psychologist that they don't think much of H's psychiatrist.. He may well be telling h that this is the only problem, a bit too much stress.

I'm not sure he will be capable of hearing from me, the nasty ex, about H's general behaviour and history...

The psychiatrist might not be capable of understanding what is actually going on with DH but he may well understand getting professional complaints, getting sued, lots of case review paperwork and meetings. If he's a bit shit he might have learned the hard way to be risk averse if the patient's family/friends are likely to sue the arse off him if he appears to have been in any way negligent.

Find out the local complaints processes, the key words to use in meetings to put the fear of god into him and realise he needs to err on the side of keeping you happy.

Like if you were in a UK school and you said words like "could something like that be considered a clear breach of your safeguarding policy should this situation ever come up in a review?" They are then v careful to properly follow all the rules and take as few risks as possible with you.

Surely they aren't keeping him a clinic for "a bit of stress"... how long has it been now ?

I should think that just knowing that people will be looking at this re child protection will mean that Psy will be protecting himself.

I would probably find it difficult to refrain from asking, how this doctor expects to establish a diagnosis with a patient without knowing any background other than what the patient is offering. there has been no effort to establish behaviour before the breakdown. H is not going to go back to doctor & say, "I taped over the camera on my boys phone because people are spying on me", or "I made a shrine in my bedroom before leaving for work in sandals, even though I am agnostic"

OP you have come so far and are doing great.

Jamais I think an email to the psych in advance of the meeting is the way to go here. If you have to list all his behaviours and your concerns in front of him, you're right it could sound like you're the vengeful ex trying to point score.

Instead spell out very very objectively and without emotion the history of his behaviour (with examples and dates). Explain that the situation became intolerable and detrimental to the dcs well being. Then set out your plan for gradual re-introduction of contact and the reassurances you require before you can allow this to happen.

Remember - the psychiatrist is not a judge. You don't have to do what they recommend. You alone currently have responsibility for your dcs and you can decide not to allow contact if you think it's in the dcs' best interests. No court in any country would punish you for protecting your dcs for valid reasons.

I have been thinking about this too... I suspect the shrink probably won’t really want to engage with you at all, Jamais, but will want to “observe” the dynamics between you and H. (As though you are together, perhaps H has led him to believe the separation is temporary?)

So pretty nasty pick up of the dc today.

They saw their dad for a couple of hours this afternoon at our old house.

H came out to the car where I was waiting for the dc and started firing questions at me : why didn't you buy dc 2 a white t shirt for his concert tonight? Are you going to give me the codes for the internet/phone account? What is your address? What day are you going to see my psychiatrist?

I'm not sure I was perfectly grey rock but I held my ground which is something.

The dcs say he was pestering them again for our address in quite a nasty way.

I asked H to warn us in advance of his day release because he changed it at the last minute on Friday (from Sunday to saturday).

He says his psychiatrist decides. Our mutual friend said that H can come out any time he wants so he was the one who changed the day to avoid a barbecue which friends set up and organised around him.

Whatever, I have seen for my self that he is still not well, his face was kind of twitching (with anger I guess) when he couldn't get what he wanted from me and I just drove away with the dc.

Not at all nice for them because they came out of the house as he was firing the questions at me .

We put the radio on nice and loudmy after that and had a lovely evening the three of us.

OMG Jamais, please don't let the DC see him again! Was this un supervised, again?
Please, he sounds totally unhinged.

I think you should stop all contact with him until you've seen the psychiatrist. Seriously no contact.

manipulation and gaslighting once again

I thought these visits where supervised?

I'd also have that phone of your son and have it checked. thats if your ex is savvy enough with tech

Cancel the phone account and internet tell him to get his own. As for the rest grey rock as best as you can.

should he be having the children unsupervised OP ?

Why did the dc go to him today?

You really need to stop this now.

Everything you post is about keeping the dc safe and yet you still let him have them unsupervised. Why?

Very important evidence that he is not yet stable enough to have the dc.

Please be safe Jamais. Maybe he has stopped taking medications?
So scary, how he is after your address
Sending hugs

Yep... definitely getting aggro. Worth reporting to psych via email. I would ask the kids how they felt about seeing him like this and report that to psych as well.

I'd bring up all this at the meeting including asking for their address constantly which is upsetting the children.
Sadly I think you might have to push a few buttons of his at this meeting to make his psychologist see the problem.

And for the bloody wifi... I agree you need to cancel all of these if you haven't already.

I would give him the reply by email.
your outburst earlier, was unacceptable. The children are unsettled & worried that you are dangerous.
DC has a white shirt
The Internet has been cancelled, I was unable to change the name/virement. You will have to get your own.
My address is private. I am not giving it to you, Stop harassing DC, they have instructions not to give it.

re internet, you will be unable to change it to his name, (I tried to do this & came up against a brick wall, I was changing it from H to my name, even though I had always paid, so standing order in my name)
I said H was moving out, therefore wanted my bill in my name. refusal.
You will have to cancel & he will have to get his own (this will most likely include returning the box.)

I think you need to stop these contact visits. He has lied to you and is back to manipulation - contact is supposed to be for the children not for the non resident parent to interrogate the kids.

I think that you need to contact both your lawyer and the hospital and tell them that H's behaviour was totally unacceptable and that it is making your kids unhappy.

In addition - did he have the kids alone? You need to stop this

If you decide to maintain the contact visits - don't allow any last minute changes. He is being aggressive with the children and trying to get them alone to manipulate them - he would not be able to do this at a BBQ with people around - so this is very cunning and premeditated behaviour.

This is another manipulation tactic to keep you off balance so you need to maintain very firm boundaries. So if the day is Sunday and he wants to change to Saturday - then you say no it doesn't work. Do not JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain). Just say no. If he doesn't want Sunday - oh well we will have to try again next Sunday.

I think you know by now that he is not fully engaging with his treatment programme. Personality disorders are notoriously difficult to treat as patients often do not want to change behaviour as they can often get want they want by manipulation. He is likely to continue these behaviours and try to flatten your boundaries. You need to be firm and not allow him to get away with these behaviours

I would advise against emailing him.

You need to stop contact with him about anything except arrangements to see the children.

For example, you had arranged for him to see the children with friends. He changed the day and said his psychiatrist decided which days he could go home.

You should have said, no the children cannot see you that day as it has not been pre-arranged and no supervision has been put in place.

That's it. You don't have to get into discussions or negotiations with him. The onus is on him to re-arrange a date, sort out the supervision and then ask you if that fits in with the children's plans.

If you are already doing something else with him, you say, no that's not convenient for the children.

Another thing you could do is set up proper, regular access (with supervision) on set days like most people do when they separate.

Why is your ExH still making all the decisions ?