Feel humiliated and devastated and don't know what to do - I want a baby and he doesn't

[FreckledLeopard]

So, I've posted about this before. It's like Groundhog Day. And I just don't know how to move forwards or what to do.

I've been with DP for 3 years. We each have adult children (I have a daughter who is 18 and who I had at 19). His children are similar ages (19/18). My DD lives with me. His live with their mother/independently.

This is the first 'healthy' relationship I guess I've had. I was previously married about 10 years ago, but for the wrong reasons and it ended pretty quickly. I had another LTR of a few years which didn't work out. Then I met DP.

It's not been plain sailing for the time we've been together. Various issues with all of our children (mine's been depressed, problems at school). One of his has been seriously ill, but now hopefully out the other side, though there's a chance the illness will come back.

We're fine money-wise. Have a nice house, mortgage will be paid off in a decade. I earn decent money. Have a nice lifestyle. Live in a nice area.

I want a baby. He doesn't. We talked about it from the outset of the relationship. I mentioned it on our first date and said I didn't want to rule out having more kids. At the time, he wasn't for or against and we just wanted to be together and enjoy each other. It was discussed a few other times and then life events overtook us. We had a year of his daughter being seriously ill and having treatment. He was isolated from his children by acrimonious relationship with his ex-wife during this time, though things now fine and he has lots of contact with his kids. My DD had issues at school. Work has been stressful. Any discussion of future children in this time period ended in major rows with him unable to decide anything. So the issue was parked.

We're now in a period where things are calm. He talks about getting married, weddings, rings. But nothing can happen because we still can't get past the question of having more children. I want a baby with him. I don't want anyone else. I don't want to do it on my own again. I want what my colleagues, friends, neighbours have - marriage and babies. He doesn't want a child. And I'm in absolute despair.

His reasons are his age (mid-40s), the stress of having more kids, having to deal with kids' issues (he's very bitter and jaded about what his kids have gone through, health wise and having been bullied) and not having time to himself and for us. I see having more kids as a chance to do things differently from before, to have more options and opportunities (as we have more money and better lifestyle than 20 years ago). I see having kids as having incredible possibilities - having my DD was the best thing I ever did. And I think primarily I see having a child as the ultimate commitment and symbol of love. There's certainly an element of me seeing things optimistically, but his view is one of relentless pessimism when it comes to the subject.

Over the past six months he's discussed baby names, told our friends that we'll see about children once we'd got last year out of the way and had a holiday together (which we did). On holiday I told him I'd like to be pregnant in a year's time. He didn't say anything one way or another. I've discussed having kids with friends, colleagues. In my mind I thought we'd start TTC later this year.

And then the issue has come up again and he doesn't want a baby. I feel utterly humiliated, rejected. He said he gave little to no thought to having his children with his ex - 'it just happened' yet won't have one with me. I've said he could be at home if he wanted, he wouldn't have to work, we could have a nanny, he wouldn't have to do nights, he could do as little as he wished. Still the answer is no. I'm just here in tears again, wanting to hide away from the world as I feel so completely stupid and lied to. I feel people (friends and colleagues) will judge me and pity me. I've never had 'normal' and it looks as if I never will. I just want to get married and have a baby with someone I love and it seems that's never going to happen.

I love him so much. He is amazing in so many ways. But I can't get past this. I don't want to break up. But I can't see how to move forwards. I could be super-petty, refuse to have sex, avoid him, spend all my time at work, but that's utterly dysfunctional. I can live in hope of him changing his mind and be miserable and resent him when he doesn't.

It's got to the point where I think whether I should go get donor sperm and leave him to decide if he wants to stick around - then that's not his child or his decision. But again, that's equally fucked-up.

I hate this situation. I hate him for leading me on. I hate that he had children with someone he loathes, but won't have them with someone he loves. I feel totally inferior.

I cannot deal with a break-up. My last break up sent me utterly mad (I lost 2 stone in 2 weeks, became acutely suicidal and utterly lost the plot). I don't remember large periods from this time and cannot go through similar again.

I just don't know what the fuck to do.

To be fair OP there is something you can do. If the most important thing to you is having a baby then leave your partner and find someone else to have a baby with.

Yet everyone else I know who wants a third baby or a fourth all get their way and their husbands go along with it after a bit of cajoling.

Wow either you know a very narrow demographic of people, or you are focusing on a few people that fit your view or more likely you know lots of people who don't have the number of children they want but don't broadcast it. Most people I know have compromised on the number of children they have - financial constraints, children from previous relationships, breakdown of a relationship, fertility problems, needs of existing children, wishes of partners, age, even fear that a third/fourth child of the same sex would feel their parents actually only had them because they wanted the other sex. Many, many people don't have the number of children they planned. Its not always possible to shape life to the picture you have in your head.

OP I totally understand. I don’t think you’re overreacting and I get that your feeling of humiliation, which probably isn’t about social standing or fitting in but that innate feeling of having embarrassed yourself by opening up about something so personal and so longed for and then not having the opportunity to see it through, it’s not even how others see you that’s embarrassing, it’s the feeling of being foolish for wanting something you can’t have. I get it. There’s nothing wrong with these feelings and I actually think some responses have been a bit harsh. It’s so easy when not in this situation to have a clinical and rational response but that’s not real life, that’s mumsnet where we can switch off feelings on a whim.

When I was your age my body went into panic fertility mode and I wanted another child. It became an obsession and I see you list charting etc as something to look forward to but that is thoroughly miserable. The romanticising peeing on a stick thing turns into obsessively doing so all through the day just in case. Sex is no longer a pleasure it’s a chore timed to the minute. TTC can totally remove the intimacy from a relationship and that can take a long time to return, if it ever does.

I did have another baby because we both agreed it was what we wanted but it’s not been all walks in the park with a cooing baby and Instagram worthy pictures. It’s been a struggle and intimacy has all but disappeared. When our friends are having luxury holidays and returning to social lives without babysitters and breast pumps, we’re sat in taking turns to go out without the other because the baby is clingy. Our older child went from being the most perfect young lady to a cheeky, rude hormone monster who is struggling with the dynamic change. Feeling pushed out for a new baby doesn’t go away at 18, in some ways it’s worse (happened to me). And Please don’t make promises of limited involvement to your OH if he allows you to have a baby with him, that can and will seriously backfire. You read it all the time on here. He won’t miraculously fall in love with the baby and turn into a model dad.

I don’t envy you having to make a decision on this. It’s hard and it’s painful.

My god, talk about self-absorbed. Your own dd is depressed (I dont mean to sound harsh but its hardly surprising if she has lived alongside you throughout your past relationships and witnessed the fallout), his dd is recovering from a year of treatment after a serious illness with a chance of it recurring, your dp is probably stressed to the hilt - but your obsession with a baby trumps all that??? Might be an idea to separate and both concentrate on your own kids because it sounds like they are all pretty fragile right now and the last thing anyone needs is a bloody baby added to the drama.

Thanks, Schlerp . And thank you to others posters, whatever anyone's views.

I know I'm romanticising things. I have no idea if I could even get pregnant. I know children are hard work. DD didn't sleep through the night until she was three.

I just want DP to want what I do. I don't want to go off and try and meet someone else; I don't want to go to a sperm bank. I want HIS child.

I'm not talking about it further with DP. Compromise appears that we can get a dog, move where I want to move to, do whatever I want to do etc, holiday, travel, whatever. Just no baby. So somehow need to bury the feelings and rage and upset and resentment.

Thing is, having a baby the "right way" will not undo the past and it won't make you feel you fit in. The chances are you'd feel the same because it's not just circumstances, it's internal.

I think your partner has been a dick to have raised your hopes with talk about baby names etc. How does he justify that?

"I just see it as a rejection of me."

If he was rejecting you he'd leave you wouldn't he?

I do wonder what would happen if your DP changed his mind and said yes to a baby, but then you didn't get pregnant. So you'd done all the TTC, told everyone you were TTC, you were checking your hormone levels, peeing on sticks, taking folic acid- but you didn't get pregnant.

How would you feel then? Would you shrug your shoulders and accept it? Or would you feel humiliated, depressed, angry?

You say you 'just' want what others have. But you do have it, you just don't want to accept that. You have the child (how many don't?) you have the loving partner (how many don't?) you have the career, the home...You have everything most people yearn for.

You do 'fit'. You fit in all the important ways- you love, you are loved. You have your daughter. Having a baby could put so much in jeopardy.

Both you and your oh already have adult children from previous relationships. You have told us you both have gone through stressful period's with your children. The reality is your now in you late 30's and he is in his mid 40's. I can understand why he does not want to go back to babies ect. Also at your age their are higher chances of having a child with special needs. How would you both deal with having a child with special needs?
He has been dealing with one of his children been seriously ill and your own child is dealing with some issues. Meanwhile you think well I want a baby to be the same as other couples because I got pregnant at a young age.
The reality is that you have what other people have. You have a child which a lot of couples would like. Ok your child was not born into the picture perfect family but they are similar to a lot of people out their. You now have a good realtionship and many people look for this and never find it. You and him both have good jobs, seem to have no money worries and will have your mortgage paid off in 10 years time. At that stage you both could be glad to work part time or even take early retirement.
Rather that look back at your life and feel bad about how some things happen ed that were not part of your earlier plan's you should be looking forward and be thankful for what you have now.

Wanting what other people have is not a good reason to bring a child into this world. And I think you know that.

No rational person would "pity" a late 30s/early 40s couple with adult DCs who are not TTC. Actually most people would be surprised if they were. And to be honest the friends you'd told about it will probably assume that if no baby comes along that it just didn't happen due to age and fertility reasons. Why would they "judge" you? To be honest, there's a good chance you wouldn't get pregnant anyway especially given your DPs age.

There's a lot of negative self talk and comparing yourself to other people in your posts, and that's worrying. I know you said you've had counselling already but you really need it to deal with your low self-esteem related to these feelings of not being up to whatever standards that you think other people have.

OP, I can hear the strain you are under just from your words. You are really putting yourself through the wringer here.

I had a very distressing event happen to me a while back. It made no sense to me and I was lashing out in my pain and hurt like you are. The people I confided in gave me similarly kind and objective advice as you have had on this thread.

You may not like it, it may not seem fair and you may not even believe it right now. You are grieving (for a life you thought you'd have) and that takes time to deal with. Read up on the stages of grief, and understand that you need time to process this big life change.

Be kind(er) to yourself.

I get it, OP, and think you're being admirably honest.

What I suspect you need is to get a bit more of a sod-everyone-else attitude and realise that the John Lewis crowd have their demons like everyone else. You've lived - and continue to live - your life along its own course. It's no better, no worse. If people judge, that is literally their problem.
Then when you strip away all the social convention and angst about your social status, I am guessing that your grief at not having another baby - real as it will be - will be simpler to process, and will run its course. All the best to you.

I think MyyouserName gives brilliant advice

You’re very invested in what other people might think of you, or how you feel your life ‘ought’ to be. You also seem to strangely have your self worth tied up in having a baby with this man. What about the fact that you love each other? That you have a great life, shared experiences, good jobs, no money worries? If he knew how you feel it’s actually quite hurtful to him. It’s like you don’t value what you have with him, just what you don’t have.

No one can predict how life will turn out, and actually to have found such a wonderful partner and to have both come through some hard times is something to be thankful for and enjoy

And as MyUserName says, everyone has their demons. Those people you’re surrounded by who all seem to be pregnant or giving birth... this is the ‘sunshine’ bit where everyone’s cooing over the pregnancy bump or newborn... putting it bluntly, they’ll have their share of the hardships. And I don’t just mean the broken nights, endless nappy changing and whining toddlers. There will be the serious stuff too... perhaps health problems, money worries, the general anxiety that’s part of parenting, worrying about your children’s happiness and prospects.

Perhaps it will help to think about the flip sides and gain some perspective. It really isn’t as black and white as ‘having a baby will be 100% happiness’ and not having one is ‘100% misery’ , which is how you’re framing it in your mind at the moment

On a practical level I would suggest extending your friendship groups so that you’re not just surrounding yourself with people with babies. And make a point of doing the stuff that you just can’t do easily with young children... travel, take up a new hobby etc That might help to embrace this stage of your life rather than hankering after what you see as the ‘expected’ thing to be doing.

There is no blueprint for life. It has twists and turns. And actually yours seems to be in a pretty good place as it is. Not 100% perfect but with a lot to be happy with, and the prospect of lots of happiness with your partner in the future years

Thinking about the age of your dd OP is this a bit of empty nest syndrome too? It's difficult when children don't need you as much and where previously your life was shaped by them and their activities and stuff, suddenly you have spare time and no idea how to fill it. Rather than being Xs mum you suddenly have to redefine who you are.

It's not a baby you want OP, it's a whole new life, based on the imagined one you think you should have had. You want to create what you feel a 'normal' family should have been like.

You want to go back to your 20s and pretend the intervening years haven't happened and you're starting from scratch with a fresh, new, young DH, getting excited about the same things, about life plans etc.

But your life has moved on. You can't go back and recreate the past but you can have a sparkling new future with new adventures and shared experiences. Can you move out of the child-bearing / pregnancy friends you are mixing with and form new friendships with people at the same life-stage as you? ie grown-up children.

Please think of your existing child before having another - either with your DP or on your own.

Your DD is 18 and according to your post, she's got MH problems and has had problems at school. From what you write, in the past 10 years you have been married, had another LTR and have been with your DP for 3 years. You also had a nervous breakdown. From your child's point of view, from the age of 8 she has had 3 different father figures in her life and has watched whilst her mother has been very unwell.

I've been in psychiatric wards - most of my friends I met inside! Some of them have children and although those kids have great poker faces, they've been affected by watching their parents' illnesses.

If you feel you can no longer have a relationship with your DP then end it. But please don't add another child into your DD's already complicated life.

Erm, no, my DH said no to kids, eventually, we have no kids so not everyone goes against their partner's wishes.

I'm sorry but you come across as rather irrational; wanting a baby to fit in, keep up with pals, you're basically saying bringing up your daughter was a failing as you never felt good enough. You don't have a child so other people approve of you. You must be nearly 40 your partner older, you're kids are up it's rare anyone wants kids with 18-20 years age gap. Your partners does love you, he wants to get married. If this was one of my friends saying all this I would be concerned she was a bit mad tbh.

All of the previous posts seem absolutely bang on the money to me. It seems as though in addition to the normal, biological longing for a baby that there are a whole heap of other reasons that you want another child. That is probably the same for loads of people in fairness, the chance for a do-over seems a fairly common reason for a third baby or a baby with a new man. I know that you said you've spend a lot of money on therapy, but it seems screamingly obvious that you're going to struggle to get past this without some more. Even if therapy can't 'fix' you, it might at least help you get to a place where you can accept how things are.

This kind of thinking is so messed up. If I was your DP and I read this, I'd be horrified. It's a massive red flag and basically says that he should submit all control over his own life choices to you. He's feelings are worthless, all that matters is your insecurity.

This

and realise that the John Lewis crowd have their demons like everyone else.

This when I was longing and trying for a baby someone I know popped out the three kids I'd always planned, boy, girl, boy a picture perfect Boden catalogue family. I watched them walk by my windows and I would silently scream how unfair it was and why did she have every I wanted? Then I finally had my son and I saw her for the first time in a few week and she told me she had cancer. I didn't envy her "perfect" life anymore.

OP, I know the type of firm you work in. My best advice is to get another job in an environment where you can be you.

So sad you feel like this OP; I get that it’s hormonal probably. But in your partners (or your) place I really wouldn’t want a baby. Babies are cute but teenagers ain’t. Teenagers in your 60s are particularly stressful. I spend lots of my time thinking that I’m not living the life I’d like to lead because of my own SEN teenagers. That doesn’t mean that I don’t love them, but it does mean I feel trapped. I guess that is what your partner doesn’t want.

Having had a really shitty couple of years where I really, really wanted something I just could not have (not a baby) I get some of what you are saying OP.

For me it has been about grieving for what I cannot have, learning to accept what I cannot have, learning not to dwell on it and learning to be grateful for what I do have that helped the most.

You are right though life can be very unfair and things, like wanting a baby, we might never get to have can seem so wrong. I wish you the best.

OP sorry to hear you so sad. As pps have mentioned, this a grief reaction and you need to give yourself permission to feel this and work through it; perhaps you will decide to leave the relationship or have a baby by another means or perhaps you will come to terms with it.

My story is similar to GrumbleBumble's - long period of infertility, surprise pregnancy, desperate longing for a second and jealousy of those who had done it all seemingly effortlessly. I too am out the other side now, I had a brief pregnancy scare recently and realised that it was no longer what I wanted, time had moved on.

I agree with Schlerp that TTC can really remove intimacy from a relationship and it's very difficult to get that back.

Good luck whatever you decide.