Feel humiliated and devastated and don't know what to do - I want a baby and he doesn't

[FreckledLeopard]

So, I've posted about this before. It's like Groundhog Day. And I just don't know how to move forwards or what to do.

I've been with DP for 3 years. We each have adult children (I have a daughter who is 18 and who I had at 19). His children are similar ages (19/18). My DD lives with me. His live with their mother/independently.

This is the first 'healthy' relationship I guess I've had. I was previously married about 10 years ago, but for the wrong reasons and it ended pretty quickly. I had another LTR of a few years which didn't work out. Then I met DP.

It's not been plain sailing for the time we've been together. Various issues with all of our children (mine's been depressed, problems at school). One of his has been seriously ill, but now hopefully out the other side, though there's a chance the illness will come back.

We're fine money-wise. Have a nice house, mortgage will be paid off in a decade. I earn decent money. Have a nice lifestyle. Live in a nice area.

I want a baby. He doesn't. We talked about it from the outset of the relationship. I mentioned it on our first date and said I didn't want to rule out having more kids. At the time, he wasn't for or against and we just wanted to be together and enjoy each other. It was discussed a few other times and then life events overtook us. We had a year of his daughter being seriously ill and having treatment. He was isolated from his children by acrimonious relationship with his ex-wife during this time, though things now fine and he has lots of contact with his kids. My DD had issues at school. Work has been stressful. Any discussion of future children in this time period ended in major rows with him unable to decide anything. So the issue was parked.

We're now in a period where things are calm. He talks about getting married, weddings, rings. But nothing can happen because we still can't get past the question of having more children. I want a baby with him. I don't want anyone else. I don't want to do it on my own again. I want what my colleagues, friends, neighbours have - marriage and babies. He doesn't want a child. And I'm in absolute despair.

His reasons are his age (mid-40s), the stress of having more kids, having to deal with kids' issues (he's very bitter and jaded about what his kids have gone through, health wise and having been bullied) and not having time to himself and for us. I see having more kids as a chance to do things differently from before, to have more options and opportunities (as we have more money and better lifestyle than 20 years ago). I see having kids as having incredible possibilities - having my DD was the best thing I ever did. And I think primarily I see having a child as the ultimate commitment and symbol of love. There's certainly an element of me seeing things optimistically, but his view is one of relentless pessimism when it comes to the subject.

Over the past six months he's discussed baby names, told our friends that we'll see about children once we'd got last year out of the way and had a holiday together (which we did). On holiday I told him I'd like to be pregnant in a year's time. He didn't say anything one way or another. I've discussed having kids with friends, colleagues. In my mind I thought we'd start TTC later this year.

And then the issue has come up again and he doesn't want a baby. I feel utterly humiliated, rejected. He said he gave little to no thought to having his children with his ex - 'it just happened' yet won't have one with me. I've said he could be at home if he wanted, he wouldn't have to work, we could have a nanny, he wouldn't have to do nights, he could do as little as he wished. Still the answer is no. I'm just here in tears again, wanting to hide away from the world as I feel so completely stupid and lied to. I feel people (friends and colleagues) will judge me and pity me. I've never had 'normal' and it looks as if I never will. I just want to get married and have a baby with someone I love and it seems that's never going to happen.

I love him so much. He is amazing in so many ways. But I can't get past this. I don't want to break up. But I can't see how to move forwards. I could be super-petty, refuse to have sex, avoid him, spend all my time at work, but that's utterly dysfunctional. I can live in hope of him changing his mind and be miserable and resent him when he doesn't.

It's got to the point where I think whether I should go get donor sperm and leave him to decide if he wants to stick around - then that's not his child or his decision. But again, that's equally fucked-up.

I hate this situation. I hate him for leading me on. I hate that he had children with someone he loathes, but won't have them with someone he loves. I feel totally inferior.

I cannot deal with a break-up. My last break up sent me utterly mad (I lost 2 stone in 2 weeks, became acutely suicidal and utterly lost the plot). I don't remember large periods from this time and cannot go through similar again.

I just don't know what the fuck to do.

You need to give things time. I'm wondering how old you are OP? Its no consolation but bringing up babies and toddlers when you are older can be very tiring !! Its not necessarily the pregnancy and then sleepless nights its coping with the menopause etc.

Humiliated seems a bit strong.

Look at this from his PIV. He’ll be a pensioner before any child hits it’s 20’s.

There’s no right or wrong here. I get both sides here but, do you want all this as you approach your 40’s?

My DH and I got together in our early 40s so this was an early discussion. We weighed it up and it would have meant working for an extra decade to pay for it. 4 kids between us etc. We've voted for waiting for grandkids. Now 5 years on being pregnant is my worst nightmare. I'm afraid I agree with your partner.

For a start don't think about anyone else or your humiliation. There isn't anything humiliating about not having another baby.

I've got kids with 2 different dads. Both relationships ended for different reasons and having kids with these fathers was crap. But ky kids are here and they're great. Yes, it would have been nice to have kids with great dads but that didn't happen. I'm now a single mum again and in a relationship with a man with kids as well. We'll lead separate lives until the kids leave home if we last that long.

I totally understand why you want another child but I understand more why your oh doesn't want a child now. You've got a great relationship, you've both had problems with your children and it's looking like it's going to get better. To start from scratch now is not something that most people would want.

OP, don't know if you're still reading.

I feel sad reading your post. I was in a similar position, although dc were a little bit younger than yours. DP and I had long, long, angst ridden discussions about having a child of our own.

On top of wanting a shared child, I was massively, desperately broody.

In the end the decision was that existing children, and their needs (one had mh issues) were the priority. But it was my DP who made the final decision, and I was so, so sad, and full of longing.

But it was the right decision. In some ways accepting my disappointment was part of what brought us even closer. And seeing our individual dc grow up into happy, healthy adults, with children of their own has been a shared delight.

At the end of the day I think that a good, strong, loving, equal, honest, respectful relationship is one of the most valuable things in the world. Your dp is being honest with you about his feelings.

I think you've been holding onto a dream. In the face of the difficulties with his dc, did you not consider that it would be making him less likely to want another child? Your disappointment must be huge, but look at the value of what you do have.

I wish you all the best.

I think he only agreed because you were pushing the issue.

I can understand why he doesn't want to start over at his age. Being a pensioner dad to a teenager and the expense isn't a thrilling prospect.

2 stones lost in 2 weeks is a hell of a lot...

Yes, still reading, and sorry for the length of time to reply. It's just hard to know what to say.

I can certainly take on board everyone's points. I can see the logic in the arguments against having a child. I'm not good with a lack of sleep, I had a number of MH issues after having DD, I have a nice lifestyle, we could be mortgage-free in a decade if we didn't have children. The child could have additional needs, no-one is getting younger. I can take on board all the rational arguments in the world.

BUT - this is not driven by rationality (as may be obvious). Whilst there are arguments why having a child isn't a bad idea (we have the money, we have good careers, my mother had me at 42 and my father was 49, Mick Jagger has a 2 year old etc), I just want a level of affirmation and doing something 'traditional'. It just feels as though I'm not good enough.

I'm so jealous of people who are TTC. I want to do the charts, the ovulation sticks, the vitamins. I want to discuss pushchairs and schools and names. I want to have unprotected sex and have the waiting and hoping and peeing on a stick. I want to be pregnant, feel the baby kick and have hiccups inside me. I want to give birth again, to breastfeed again. The idea that I never get to do that is just so, so unfair to me. I always thought that one day I'd get to experience the conscious, planned, creation of a child, with someone and I can't get past the fact that this won't happen.

Also, there's the fact that I know if I got pregnant accidentally (which I'm not going to do, don't worry), DP would come around. He'd love any child we had. He wouldn't insist on me having an abortion. He'd deal with it. So I guess I think that if he would come to terms with another child, and love it, then why not just have one?

I suppose, too, in light of some comments above, that I see having another child differently to him in light of what we've been through with our children. He sees everything from a negative perspective, I see having another child with optimism. The child we have may not have any issues, may not be bullied, may not have any health issues - it may be the next Bill Gates, the next Prime Minister, it may invent a cure for cancer. He or she may be utterly gregarious, happy, confident, intelligent. But we'll never know.

So at the moment I'm just trying to process not having more kids. Yes, we can get a dog. A whole bunch of animals. Go on endless holidays. It just all feels a bit pointless from my perspective. I'm in a place where I look at Michelle Duggar with envy (which I accept is pretty screwed up), just because she never has to argue about having more children with her husband. I guess I need time. I'm just defeated and dejected.

I am really sorry that you're so sad. But I do think he's being responsible and sensible not to just give in to this. He has done nothing wrong- he told you he wasn't sure, and then came to a decision. He hasn't changed his mind, and has just come to a decision that you don't like. He sounds like a good man, OP. He isn't one of the irresponsible ones who has a kid just because it's what his DP wants.
Also, this jumped out at me from your OP- And I think primarily I see having a child as the ultimate commitment and symbol of love. I really don't think that's a good reason to have a baby. A person should not really be a symbol.
I know that sounds harsh because I know what it feels like, that yearning. But this really sounds as if you have a good DP.

He's not looking at it from a position of 'negativity', OP; he's looking at it from a position of rationality that is unclouded by your personal emotions and life expectations. Sorry to say it so bluntly, but it sounds like he never technically promised you another child in as many words, so it seems churlish to hold him over a barrel regarding it now. And, equally, nobody forced you to paint yourself into the corner where your colleagues and friends are concerned (would it truly be so difficult to just be honest and say 'Looks like it's not actually on the cards for us after all'?).

I can sympathise with your situation, but I feel that you are misdirecting your disappointment at your DP and holding him to account over issues that he has not caused, and cannot fairly be expected to remedy.

Your most recent post is more relatable than your first, op. I think most women understand the, often irrational, certainly emotional, pull for a child/more children.

But the stuff you have said about feeling humiliated, or feeling like you need to be 'like everyone else', or suggesting that he can't love you as much as his ex because he had dc with her - that's all barking, it really is, wrong wrong wrong reasons to bring dc into the world.

Have you decided whether you'll be able to stay with him?

I agree with @GemmeFatale

It’s not too late for that to happen. But this isn’t the right relationship if a baby is important to you. It’s not fair that’s he’s changed his mind but you can’t make him have a child with you.

It's an awful situation - but you can't make him or expect him to go along with what you want because that's not fair on him either. I really think the decision is yours. You can either accept that this is the way it will be and get on with enjoying your life together - you've said how much you love him, you could still have an amazing life, or end the relationship and go in search of what you want.

If you choose the latter, I'd say that this is about having a baby full-stop and not about your partner at all.

Your partner sounds as if hes being sensible. Saying you feel humiliated is a bit of an over reaction and . I feel people (friends and colleagues) will judge me and pity me is ridiculous. Why would people judge you for not having a baby. Lots of people don't & aren't judged OR pitied.

You already have what a lot of people would love to have. A lovely partner, children, good lifestyle. That sounds pretty good you know.

I don't think he has misled you as such op, it's fine he wasn't sure, it doesn't seem at any stage he ever said to you he actually wished a child. You just took the positive in his indecision and ran with it.

If he doesn't wish a child you need to respect this. If it's more important to you to have one, than be in the relarionship then end it.

A kid is a huge responsibility and many many people would not consider it again in their mid forties with their kids as adults.his position is reasonable. And as said, you need to respect this

I think the two of you need to go your separate ways, there will always be resentment on one side, what ever happened.

Maybe I have misread but it sounds like he has not committed to having more children at any time, he just left it open. Now it is crunch time, it is a no.

Your only choices are to split and have dc with someone else or live with the fact you will not have another child. No one else in the world can tell you which is the best for you, you have to decide on your own I'm afraid

It's awful to see your so sad. However I think your partners decision is the sensible one.
You are both parents. You have had a baby, given birth, breastfed etc. You've experienced it. Many many people experience having a newborn without support or not in a 'normal' set up.
You seem to have this issue about everyone else having perfect, conventional lives with no issues, disappointments or upset. This is what you need to address.
To me it seems madness for you to go back to having a young child when you have your independence again.
Plus, personally, I think he is too old (my opinion)

This bit jumpedd out at me

I'm so jealous of people who are TTC. I want to do the charts, the ovulation sticks, the vitamins. I want to discuss pushchairs and schools and names. I want to have unprotected sex and have the waiting and hoping and peeing on a stick. I want to be pregnant, feel the baby kick and have hiccups inside me. I want to give birth again, to breastfeed again.

I don’t know if your meant it deliberately, or if it was subconscious, but that really reminds me of friends who get so caught up in wedding planning they forget about married life.

You want to do a pregnancy and have a little baby, but do you really want to do terrible twos again, faffing with potty training, childcare, stress over finding a primary school.

Do you want another child, or just a baby?

I feel for you, it must be awful, but as an outsider it looks like utter madness to throw away a great real over some imaginary veneer of respectability that a planned baby has.

If it’s any consolation I had a very unplanned baby in my late 30s. I had a lot of complications. I was jealous of the younger mums who had more resilience and more energy.

*peeing on a stick. I want to be pregnant, feel the baby kick and have hiccups inside me. I want to give birth again, to breastfeed again. The idea that I never get to do that is just so, so unfair to me."

I know this feeling it took me 8 years and lots of treatment to concieve I was 36 when I finally had my son. I longed and craved for another. I kept all the baby stuff I hoped and I wished and it didn't happen again for me. I'm now 45 and about two years ago it hit me that I don't want another baby anymore. Not now. I wish my son wasn't an only child, I wish I had another (successful) pregnancy or two , I loved being pregnant and would love to have done it more than once but I don't want it now. I'm too old, I don't want a teenager in my 60's, I don't want to be trying to juggle childcare in the holidays for another dozen plus years. I will always be sad that I didn't get the three children I wanted but now the prospect of another baby would terrify me. Your DP may have reach this point in life too. I didn't plan to I just woke up one morning and realized if I won the lottery that day I wouldn't phone the fertility clinic and see when they could see me.
Wanting a child is painful but it's something lots of people live with - many of whom don't ever get to be pregnant, to give birth to hold their baby.

In the circumstances, your best option is to work harder to get over it IMO.

Your DP has sensible reasons not to want any more DC (although any reason would be fair enough). Assuming your relationship is otherwise good, leaving it for the small chance of finding someone else decent wanting to ttc, or going it alone, seems a bad option by comparison.

I have sympathy with wanting more DC than is possible: have not been able to have the 3DC I’d hoped for, for different reasons. Sometimes we can’t have what we want.

What others might think doesn’t matter!

Also, you don’t sound to be giving much regard to your and his existing DCs’ needs and interests: from what you say of the circumstances they would probably not benefit from having a much younger sibling. Their interests outweigh your own IMO.

I just want a level of affirmation and doing something 'traditional'. It just feels as though I'm not good enough.

This is the bit that jumped out at me, and the thing you really need to address. Why is this important? You're risking the wonderful life you have now for some abstract idea of doing things the 'right' way? It makes no sense.

People have children at all sorts of ages, with or without partners, married or unmarried, planned or not. It's not the 1950s, there is no 'right way' and I guarantee you your friends are not judging you.

Also on the 'good enough' thing - good enough for who? You really need to build up your self esteem.

I feel sorry that you feel so sad. But I think you’d be mad to have another child - I think it might actually make your existing child feel pushed out because they are now an adult and it’s like you are starting over again (and I say that as someone who has a 7 year old and a 16 year old, eldest from a previous marriage).

I think 3 years into a relationship- especially if this is your first proper stable one- you’re just coming out of the honeymoon stage. And he’s showing you who he really is. The rose tinted specs are coming off and you want different things.

I agree with the poster upthread who says it sounds like you want a baby, not the child. I had a child after a ten year gap and although I love my son with all my heart, fucking hell it was hard. I was very smug about my eldest sleeping through early but 7 years on my son hardly sleeps - he has autism and learning disabilities.

I completely relate to feeling that you need to have the nuclear 2.4 kids type set up because that’s not what you had with your dd - same here, I left her dad when she was 6 months old as he was an abusive arsehole - but what you have to realise is no family is perfect. What you have is more than enough and you know most people will look at you all when you’re out for the day and whatever and think you DO have that perfect traditional family - as I’m sure you look at others and think the same without really knowing what’s going on.

OP I do think you are focusing on the one thing that you don't have rather than all that you do have.

Yes, you could have a baby and get your fairytale. Or, you could have a baby and then any number of spanners get chucked in the works that spells the end of the life you have now. Would you still rather have the baby even if it meant losing your home and being a single parent again?

Was your pregnancy at 19 planned? Did DD's father stick around?
Whatever happened when you were younger, you seem utterly desperate to, in your opinion, redo things properly.

You seem to think marriage and babies shows love and commitment, and no other way is possible. Like you have set up your imaginary perfect life and can't deal with it not happening because you think that will somehow mean you have failed.

DD was not planned. Her father never met her til she was 13 and has never paid a penny towards her. They've seen each other about half a dozen times in total and her sisters (he's now married) don't know she's their sister as he hasn't told them. It's insanely fucked up and he is an utter arsehole.

Regarding the 'respectability' and doing things properly - I've felt judged and the odd one out my entire life. My former marriage and other relationships failed whilst all my friends and colleague married and settled down and had children. I work in a very conservative law firm (am a lawyer) and it's just par for the course that you marry and have children. No-one is divorced or a single parent. And everyone my age is having babies. And shopping at John Lewis for pushchairs and going to baby massage and yoga and buying houses and talking about paint colours. And here I am, late thirties with an adult child and still not fitting in anywhere.

It wasn't rational to have DD - everyone thought I was insane to have a baby as a teenager. But she's still the best thing I ever did. And I have friends sending me posts about the wonders of motherhood and how women regret not having one last baby, whilst saying what a great time of my life it would be to have more kids. My best friend has just given birth and tells me how she wishes I could have a baby too and how awesome it would be. And I just feel utterly inadequate because DP says no and there's nothing I can do about it. Yet everyone else I know who wants a third baby or a fourth all get their way and their husbands go along with it after a bit of cajoling.

As much as anyone can say the decision of DP's is legitimate and sensible, I just see it as a rejection of me.

And I just feel utterly inadequate because DP says no and there's nothing I can do about it. Yet everyone else I know who wants a third baby or a fourth all get their way and their husbands go along with it after a bit of cajoling.

This kind of thinking is so messed up. If I was your DP and I read this, I'd be horrified. It's a massive red flag and basically says that he should submit all control over his own life choices to you. He's feelings are worthless, all that matters is your insecurity.

What other couples do is not relevant to your relationship. Maybe those men wanted a third or fourth child. Maybe they've been bullied into it and it will cause resentment and a marriage break up further down the line, as well as being damaging for the poor child. Other people's lives are not as perfect as you think they are.

I find it hard to believe that any law firm (with more than a handful of staff) has no divorced people, single parents or childfree people. But again that's not really relevant.

Do you judge people for their life choices, and/or life circumstances? If the answer is no, why do you think people are judging you? Who are you seeking validation from?