OH wants a baby but I’m not sure...is there a future for us?

[Tafelberg]

Hi all,

Brand new member here, I wasn’t sure where was best to post this so hope this is ok here.

Will try to keep this brief...I am 37, been with my OH (39) for a year and half and we live together. He has two kids, 3 and 5 who stay with us every other weekend and he sees them separately in the week sometimes too. I get on great with the kids although admit I find it tiring having them around and am relieved when they go home. When we first got together, we discussed kids - I told him I'd never been sure I wanted any (erring more on not) and he told me he would quite like more but was very happy with his two so basically happy either way.

Anyway..as time's gone on, he has seemed to start wanting another baby more - mostly as he wants to have the "proper" dad/child relationship - and I am stuck at still being very undecided. Recently I thought I might want to have one, mostly due to my best friend who’d also never wanted kids in the past changing her minds and getting pregnant and my youngest sibling and his partner also about to have their first, but I've since swung back the other way and am back to being more on the "I don't know" side. I've said to him that perhaps we should just do it, because I may never be sure and I might regret not having one in the future, but he has rightly said he wouldn't want to try for one with me if I'm not sure because it wouldn't be fair on the baby and could cause resentment down the line.

We've talked about it a lot recently and actually had a bit of a meltdown a few weeks ago where it looked like we might have to break up over it. We've cleared the air and moved past it for the time being but I'm wondering if I'm just putting off the inevitable :( We love each other very much and I would give anything to be able to tell him I do want one but it would be a lie. At the same time, I can't say that I definitely don't want one, ever.

I do know that if I got pregnant by accident tomorrow (I am on the pill) I would keep the baby and I know I would be ok - he is an excellent father, has been through everything already twice and would be a huge support to me and the baby. I also think that once my friend's/brother’s babies are born that might make me start wanting one but obviously I can't guarantee it. I don't know what to do. I can't bear losing him over this but am I being selfish trying to ignore it and keep him to myself when he could be out finding someone who definitely does want a baby with him?

Sorry I didn't manage to keep it brief! Any help/opinions welcome :(

I think you’re probably all right about the issues between him and his ex and the reasons they split up. He has said that they had problems for a while which having a second child made worse. He said his ex was never affectionate or tactile with him, which he found hard and even though they both agreed to work on things (him his temper and her that) it didn’t change. I know that this isn’t going to help his cause as I can see very clearly how it just looks even more like the issues in their relationship were all down to his temper problems - and perhaps they were.

I can also see that from the list of what I wrote about my ex that the sulking/temper things are present in my current relationship, however please believe me when I say they were on another scale with my ex. I’ve never been scared my OH would hit me, for example (which I was with my ex at least once) and I have learnt to challenge the sulking which I am hopeful may die out completely. But I do see that the similarities are there albeit on a much lower level. I think I’ve just been trying to tell myself that nobody is perfect and that everyone has some personality flaws and that all the good things about my OH (of which there are abundantly more than there ever were with my ex) make up for it somehow.

I am listening to all the opinions and advice you’re all giving me, I promise. From the start I’ve always told myself and continue to that I will not stay with someone who ever makes me feel like my ex did - I know that “walking on eggshells” feeling well and haven’t forgotten how shit it is to live with feeling like that. I do trust myself to identify it if it comes up again and to be strong enough to walk away from it. I can honestly say I would far rather be single than live like that again.

He said his ex was never affectionate or tactile with him, which he found hard

Does this mean not much sex? Which given she was pregnant twice in a few years is not unusual.
The most vulnerable time in your life is when you are pregnant or with a young baby and during that time he had anger issues.

I was never scared of my Ex until the mask dropped, it was such a switch that it was almost unbelievable. Perhaps I am projecting but he seems so similar.
I suspect you have moved from a grade 10 abuser to a Grade 7 and I think your partner is on his best behaviour because he is getting what he wants. Start saying No to him, just small issues and see how he reacts. No need for rudeness just "No that doesn't work for me".

No - not sex. He has said that their sex life was always ok. It was the more couple behaviour stuff like holding hands or hugging or being tactile when out together, small things like that. I know not everyone is like that naturally but he said she used to be but it stopped and he missed it. He’s not a pawing/overly clingy type, though - I wouldn’t be able to bear that myself, I like a certain level physical affection but couldn’t stand it constantly like that.

I will do that. To be fair I’ve never felt I can’t say no to him but if they come up I will. I do take all your points about best behaviour though. I guess because my ex’s emotional abuse started quite soon in our relationship (to a much higher degree than the sulking I’ve seen with my OH, I mean) I kind of assumed if it was going to happen it would have done by now. But I do see that there are different levels and that none are ok or acceptable.

He sounds like one of those proprietary fellas you see out, always slinging their arm heavily over their partner's shoulders.

I echo what a pp said re: leaving a level 10 bastard and revelling in finding a level 7. Though you aren't afraid this guy will hit you, we're never afraid they'll hit us until their mask drops a little and we realise they have the capacity. He's still masking, until he feels like you are stuck. I will wager that you'll first really fear him once you are pregnant. He'll show you more of himself then. Once the baby is born, you may find he becomes unrecognisable.

The clever abusers can hold off the abuse longer, until their investment is assured. They also know the "signs" we look for (e.g. really denigrating the ex) and try to avoid showing themselves too soon.

I know exactly the kind of proprietary men you mean and I swear he isn’t like that. He doesn’t constantly touch me or have his arm round me or anything like that. I would absolutely hate that and he definitely doesn’t fall in that category.

I do take the point about not knowing what he’s capable of until the mask slips though. So do I leave now before that mask slip?

Also in answer to someone else’s point earlier, he has said several times to me that his ex is a great mum to their kids. They may not like each other but he has always said that about her.

A couple more answers to questions: @lifebegins50 I speak to his parents now and again on Facebook but not independently. He doesn’t have any brothers or sisters. His mum has told me before that he can act like a “petulant child” when he’s annoyed. I don’t have separate contact with any of his friends but have met many of them.

The next time he sulks or gives me the silent treatment I will definitely be bringing some of your excellent suggestions up - particularly in reference to his relationship with his ex. Another thing this thread has shown me is that I don’t know nearly enough about that. I may not get any better answers but I agree it’s important I ask the questions. And in fact a lack of answers may be all the information I need.

Never have a child with a man who has purposely opted out of the life of his existing children. You say he "wants to be s proper dad" by having another child. That means he knows he's made a mess of things with his existing kids and wants another chance with another child. What he needs to do is focus on his existing children and be a decent dad to them. Having his kids EOW is not much parenting is it? There's no day to day things. He just gets all the good bits. Hills. That way >>>>>>>

This.

Well done OP, I never got "good" answers to my questions and just felt I couldn't push. I regret that so much.

Was he unable to relate to a mum who felt "touched out", pregnant for 18months and then breastfeeding? I think many men would not move 2.5 hours away from tiny children for this reason. It really isn't enough to break up a long term relationship where children are involved.

I think if his mum says petulant child that is very relevant and she is probably underestimating.Very difficult for you as he hasn't yet given you much cause to leave but by the time he does the damage is significant.

I am rebuilding my life, financially, emotionally and mentally after Mr Nice Guy dropped his mask.Whilst I did want he wanted he was lovely.

'I think these feelings are completely normal and I think if you had your own you would be so in love with your new baby. I think it's better for you if it was an accident then I'm sure you'd just get on with it.'

Sheesh

And you arrived from planet WTF??

Your OH story resonated with me because my sister was on the receiving end of it. Her husband left her with 2 DCs similar ages and moved 3h away. She worked full time and did everything, she almost had a breakdown but he thought he was a great dad and so did his family. My poor nieces, little more than babies, would spend half of their weekend in the car and were so tired the next day. He used to say my sister was a good mum, but with her was extremely verbally and emotionally abusive, especially after separating, to the point that she only communicated through email. In time he started being nasty to my neices as well, who are now adults and want no contact with him. He's had another DC with another woman.
There's 2 sides to every story and as you say we only know what you know and tell us, but be aware OP, and be careful.

OP you are focused so much on his parenting, his kids, his commitment to them; I think you are ignoring the WHY of why his relationship broke up.
You say his ex was initially 'affectionate' but it died off - WHY? Did he do something to make his Ex back off? Avoided the night-feeds? Did no housework? Demanded sex? Tantrumed about stuff - all these and more would make most women turn it off, I think.

And you have been with him 18 months? That is honestly NO time at all. You are still in the 'honeymoon' phase - in another 18 months you will see more of the 'real' him. And I wouldn't be surprised if you find yourself with a Bad-Tempered, housework-dodger who expects you to look after his kids when he can't be bothered/is too tired.

It might not be appropriate but I would be very tempted to contact his ex to ask for her version of events.

I think the facts you have are very significant.

He moved away from his small children

He barely speaks to his ex

His mother describes him as petulant

Felt his ex denied him affection

He’s more generous than CSA but claims it back? His ex had to apply to the CSA to get maintenance

You’ve known him 18 months (not long enough)

He’d like you pregnant

Run away. Don’t get sucked into his narrative around these points. Use your head, ignore the hormones

Lex sorry if you meant to cover this by him hardly speaking to his ex but the fact she has blocked him on everything bar email is also pertinent.

Op maybe she wasn't as affectionate because she had babies very close together and was absolutely exhausted ?

So with a newborn and a toddler he demanded attention and affection?

The key thing here is that he should be doing everything he can to move back closer to them

Literally nothing else should be discussed in your future if he isn't making every effort to find work closer and plan a life in which he can be a better parent to them.

Having a new born would immediately make it harder for him to parent those two and any sane adult would know that. He will know that.

They are such tiny kids and he fought their mum to take them away for more time. It's just horrible.

If he lived nearer he could see them without the travel and exhaustion for them

Not sure if any of you will remember this thread as it was a while ago but I wanted to post again for two reasons, 1) to update on my situation and 2) to thank all those who gave me such excellent advice.

The short version of 1) is I finally broke up with him this weekend properly after nearly having done so a couple of times after I posted. I took your advice on board and when the subject of kids came up again (in the form of him getting moody with me after us talking about some mutual friends who had broken up partly over similar issues) I pointed out all the things you all had made me think about, like him moving away from his kids and so on. It didn't go down well. He was furious at me for questioning his actions and said some extremely hurtful things. I took this as the end of our relationship and started making plans to leave, but when he found this out he did an about-face and told me staying with me was more important to him than having more children and so I stayed.

However, since then we've had more and more arguments over other things. I won't go into the details of them all but they have been over small things and big things and each time I've found it harder and harder to get over them and move on. I nearly left again after our last-but-one argument but circumstances meant I couldn't and I eventually gave into his begging me to stay and give things another go. However I struggled hard with regaining a level of intimacy and normality relationship-wise and I think in my heart I knew that it was fundamentally broken.

Cue this weekend and another argument that started over something small and escalated to him losing his temper and going into a rage, telling me "fuck you" and "go fuck yourself" (I have always told myself I won't stand for a partner saying things like that to me) and then turning it round to say that I had started the whole thing and I should have been apologising to him and I eventually got the courage together to call it all off completely. I'm staying with a family member at the moment while I look for somewhere to live. He has again been pleading with me to reconsider, veering between that and making cold financial demands, essentially implying that I will have to stay living in our flat as a flatmate/lodger until our contract ends, but I'm seeking legal advice and staying strong. I know I can't go back on this now.

Which leads me on to point 2 - thank you all. I have been lurking on the boards since I posted and have read so many things on here that have helped me, about having boundaries, recognising emotional abuse, about how good relationships should be and so much more. I am determined to stay strong on this one even though the doubts and pain and guilt keep hitting me and I will continue to rely on the support from these forums as well as that I thankfully have from my lovely friends and family. Thank you all again

well done you. I see a bright future for you with your freedom and your new knowledge on boundaries and relationships.

After some tears and ice cream I am sure you will be great.

Ps. Some women here might be able to help with the legality of the lease.

Is your name on the lease?

Thanks @Aussiebean I hope you're right.

Yes that's a good point. I have a friend who works in that area who's given me some info but I need all the help I can get. Yes my name is on the lease but as far as I can see, the contract just states that the sum of xxx rent needs to be paid on xxx day per month by "the tenant". When we moved into this place which was extremely recently - I'm talking weeks - it was on the proviso that my DP could afford to pay the entire rent by himself should he need to (i.e. if we broke up and I moved out) and that I would just contribute what I could afford as he earns a lot more than me - not romantic I know and says a lot about the state of our relationship at the time, but I have text messages still between us about this. I paid half of the deposit though which is in a government deposit scheme.

ETA: when I say my name is on the lease, I mean both our names are.

That’s really goodness news, OP. Congratulations on taking charge of your life. Have only just read this thread and you came across from the beginning as a non/defensive, logical and thoughtful person. So pleased for you. Best of luck extricating yourself from the lease and for the future.

Cue this weekend and another argument that started over something small and escalated to him losing his temper and going into a rage, telling me "fuck you" and "go fuck yourself" (I have always told myself I won't stand for a partner saying things like that to me) and then turning it round to say that I had started the whole thing and I should have been apologising to him...He has again been pleading with me to reconsider, veering between that and making cold financial demands, essentially implying that I will have to stay living in our flat as a flatmate/lodger until our contract ends

Parts of your update are chilling - imagine what he would have been like if you had a child with him, who he could have used make terrifying custody threats.

You've now seen his mask drop right off and the true self behind. Ghoulish.

Well done on making a difficult choice.
You're free, keep running.

Oh wow, what an update. I hadn't read this thread at the time - you had fantastic advice.

One thing I was going to say - nothing to do with your dilemma, really, was:

he owns the house his parents live in (well, they paid the deposit but it’s in his name and they cover the mortgage payments - so eventually it will be his

In what way does he own that house? OK technically he might own it, but he has paid nothing towards it. Is it to avoid inheritance tax?

The other thing I was going to say was this: if his ex wants only email contact with him, that sounds as though she wants a written record of every conversation. Given his temper with you and with her, I can understand why she would want that.

You've done the right thing. He sounds like an arsehole. No parent willingly moves so far away from their children if they're good parents. He sounds toxic and everything is about him. All the best op

He can put his money where his mouth is and MARRY you ...

thereby providing you with the legal and contractual protection for your instant economic vulnerability in 9 months time...

Or, he can focus on the children he already has, and be a good father to them.

listen to your gut which is really talking to you right now (meltdown etc), and don't have children outside marriage, OP