OH wants a baby but I’m not sure...is there a future for us?

[Tafelberg]

Hi all,

Brand new member here, I wasn’t sure where was best to post this so hope this is ok here.

Will try to keep this brief...I am 37, been with my OH (39) for a year and half and we live together. He has two kids, 3 and 5 who stay with us every other weekend and he sees them separately in the week sometimes too. I get on great with the kids although admit I find it tiring having them around and am relieved when they go home. When we first got together, we discussed kids - I told him I'd never been sure I wanted any (erring more on not) and he told me he would quite like more but was very happy with his two so basically happy either way.

Anyway..as time's gone on, he has seemed to start wanting another baby more - mostly as he wants to have the "proper" dad/child relationship - and I am stuck at still being very undecided. Recently I thought I might want to have one, mostly due to my best friend who’d also never wanted kids in the past changing her minds and getting pregnant and my youngest sibling and his partner also about to have their first, but I've since swung back the other way and am back to being more on the "I don't know" side. I've said to him that perhaps we should just do it, because I may never be sure and I might regret not having one in the future, but he has rightly said he wouldn't want to try for one with me if I'm not sure because it wouldn't be fair on the baby and could cause resentment down the line.

We've talked about it a lot recently and actually had a bit of a meltdown a few weeks ago where it looked like we might have to break up over it. We've cleared the air and moved past it for the time being but I'm wondering if I'm just putting off the inevitable :( We love each other very much and I would give anything to be able to tell him I do want one but it would be a lie. At the same time, I can't say that I definitely don't want one, ever.

I do know that if I got pregnant by accident tomorrow (I am on the pill) I would keep the baby and I know I would be ok - he is an excellent father, has been through everything already twice and would be a huge support to me and the baby. I also think that once my friend's/brother’s babies are born that might make me start wanting one but obviously I can't guarantee it. I don't know what to do. I can't bear losing him over this but am I being selfish trying to ignore it and keep him to myself when he could be out finding someone who definitely does want a baby with him?

Sorry I didn't manage to keep it brief! Any help/opinions welcome :(

Oh dear, oh dear.
Lots of excuses/minimising/defending him in that post.
As I've already said, I think you'd probably find the Freedom Programme helpful.

It’s not meant as excuses or minimising. I’m trying to present the facts in a balanced way. As I’ve said in a previous post, I’ve been in emotionally abusive relationships before and I know there is plenty wrong with this situation. I will look at the Freedom
Programme.

and “clawing back” the money he overpaid, but for all the other faults he may have, honestly he isn’t stingy with money towards the children. At all.

What other financial contribution does he make? I don't mean when they're with him. They spend the vast majority of time with their mother. What is he contributing over and above minimum CSA?

I appreciate that you're explaining the situation as neutrally as you can, it's just that the way you write about certain things (such as explaining away the sulking and silent treatment) makes me worry that you have been conditioned to accept or at least forgive abusive behaviour... obviously that's only one example and you do seem to be thinking clearly and critically about your situation which is good.

I would like to challenge this though:
"I do know even if we broke up he would maintain a child financially. I take all your points about him paying “the bare minimum” and “clawing back” the money he overpaid, but for all the other faults he may have, honestly he isn’t stingy with money towards the children. At all."

I'm sorry to say it but you sound astonishingly naïve on this topic. If he's paying through the CSA that means he isn't paying voluntarily and his ex had to go through the CSA to ensure he pays the bare minimum. The minimum doesn't even begin to cover their mother's costs when it comes to housing and providing for them. If he was truly committed to supporting his children financially he would have voluntarily set up a regular payment that is higher than the legal minimum. Maybe you see him giving the children extras and treats during their time with him, maybe he also contributes to extra curricular activities and other things, but that doesn't help their mother pay her mortgage/rent and bills. Of course if they were married there would have been a financial settlement, so she would have got a share of the martial assets and not just child maintenance. But if you have a child with him and later split up, without being married you would just get child maintenance. Which wouldn't be much!

marital assets not martial assets!

No, I wouldn’t have a child with a man who was capable of moving 2.5 hours away from his children.

You’ve only been together for 18 months, you’ve already seen hints of his temper, you’re not married, there are already two small children in the mix, you don’t have the full story as to why his relationship with his ex ended... it sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

I’m not really sure if I’m honest. This is probably another way in which I’m being hugely naive. Apart from paying the maintenance payments and all the stuff he does with and for them when he’s with them (he takes them on holidays as well a few times a year and pays for swimming lessons) what else do you mean? (This is an honest question not me trying to be defensive of him)

Ah, cross post with you @AnotherEmma. Thank you. Will reply again properly in a bit.

First off, I don't think anyone should have a child unless they 100% want to have a child. If there's hesitation, it's probably best to err on the side of 'no'.

But I think you need to ask yourself, since you have doubts, how you would feel about being a single parent or being the one who shoulders the majority of the child-related duties (as it appears his ex did). He doesn't seem to have a good track record as an involved, hands-on parent so there's no reason to think he'd be one now. So chances are he'd expect you to be the primary 'parent-on-duty', and if your relationship ends, you'll be responsible for this child the vast majority of the time. Are you OK with that?

Maybe you'd be better off trying to facilitate him having more time with the children he has.

Do they go to paid childcare and if so does he contribute to that? Does he contribute to school uniform for the oldest? Does he buy clothes, shoes, books and toys that they wear/use any time and not just at his house? Does he take them shopping to buy Mother's Day, birthday and Christmas cards and presents for their mum?

My ex moved away from us when we split. Also 2.5 hours away and my kids were also 3 and 5 when he moved away. They are 7 & 9 now.

I hope to god he doesn't have anymore kids. He has them eow and the kids have to travel to him which I hate. They are so tired for school - this may be an issue for your OH dcs when they get more into education.

But I'd like to say your OH is in no way an excellent father. At all. He has dcs 2 days out of 14. Does he speak to the dcs through the week when he doesn't see them? Does he travel to parents evening? Nativitys? Sports days? Or is he too far away?

My dcs love their dad to bits. Because they know when they see him, he will take them to McDonald's. Maybe bowling or something. They get little treats.

But my ex is more like a fun uncle than a father. Yes he is their dad but he isn't a parent. You cannot be a parent to a child who lives that far away.

So....you haven't really seen what he's like as a parent op. You maybe haven't thought about it this way. A baby is 24/7. He chose to leave his 2 babies which removed pretty much all his parenting involvement.

I hope you make the right choice for you. But all I'm saying is please don't think he's an excellent dad because of the way he is with his dcs eow. As it's completely different to having a child 24/7 x

You come across as minimizing and excusing his behaviour. That's your prerogative, but if you ignore the advice here (which is pretty much unanimous), you have a baby and it works out badly you won't be able to blame him entirely. You can't say you weren't warned. You will have gone into it with your eyes wide open.

Firstly - just to say that you all have categorically helped cement in my mind that I am definitely not ready for a baby, with my OH or anyone else. I already knew that and wasn’t planning to have one in the near future - my original question was more whether our relationship was worth pursuing if that was to be the long-term position. It now looks more like the question is whether I should stay with him at all.

@AnotherEmma yes, he contributes to childcare and to school uniform. He does buy toys, books, clothes etc that they use at their grandparents’ place (I don’t know if they take any of those back to their mum’s). He doesn’t take them shopping for presents for their mum though as far as I know, I think he relies on them doing that at school/childcare and through the grandparents which I agree is probably wrong, I hadn’t thought about it until now though).

@trebless yes he speaks to them via FaceTime during the week. And yes he goes to those things - I’ve known him go to parents evenings, assemblies, school plays etc. You’re 100% right that I haven’t seen him as a proper parent though and that’s something I’m very grateful to this thread for having made clear to me.

@Prawnofthepatriarchy I can see that that’s how it comes across. It’s hard because part of me knows how easy it is to judge a stranger’s situation without knowing all the facts (I take on board you can only go on what I tell you though - which is why I’ve given all the extra detail, rather than trying to excuse him) and a part of me knows that outsiders often see far more clearly what those directly in a situation can’t.

In terms of his temper/sulking, do you all think that someone with these personality traits isn’t worth being with? Do you think they can change them with time/counselling etc? Again these are honest questions and I value others’ experiences. By way of my own, my emotionally abusive ex did the following:

1. tried to influence my choice of friends/music/hobbies because he didn’t approve of certain ones I had
2. was so suspicious when I received texts from people I had to read them out to assure him there was nothing in them
3. would ignore me for days when we fell out
4. would lose his temper, shout and rage at me over the slightest thing
5. was jealous of any other man I ever mentioned
6. gaslighted me time and again, making everything that happened between us to be down to my own faults or because of my own behaviour I could go on. My current partner does none of these things. I don’t want to list all his attributes in case it comes across as making excuses for him again, but I can honestly say that apart from the traits I’ve listed we have a balanced, healthy and supportive relationship. I’m just wondering whether that isn’t enough.

OP, you just said in your response to me that "he does tend to sulk/give me the silent treatment" when you argue - that is the same as number 3 on your list of things your ex did, maybe not as extreme, but from the same stable.

@Tafelberg all I'm saying is please don't have a child with him because you think he's a great dad. Good luck to you whatever you do x

That’s true. I guess I’m just wondering if that’s enough to mean that he’s likely to turn into the same kind of person as my ex. I sometimes wish I could speak to my OH’s ex just to hear her side of things. I’m so torn. I don’t want to blindly ignore red flags but I also don’t want to end something that is 95% good, over what could happen/happened in his past.

@trebless thank you. Don’t worry, I definitely won’t x

'I sometimes wish I could speak to my OH’s ex just to hear her side of things.'

I understand this

If I'd have done that in the past it would have saved me a whole load of heartache.

You sound torn but also pretty savvy

"he used to have a very bad temper, hold grudges etc - he has worked on this a lot though and I don’t see much of that at all"

You don't see much - but you've seen some of it, right?

He's been on his best behaviour with you. He might have done the same with his ex. Until she got pregnant.

"In terms of his temper/sulking"
So they're still issues?

From your list about your ex:
"3) would ignore me for days when we fell out
4) would lose his temper, shout and rage at me over the slightest thing"

"My current partner does none of these things."
But you have literally told us in the same post that your partner does both sulk and lose his temper.
Exactly the same behaviours! Less extreme, but the same.

I would like to share some wise words with you:
Just because you've escaped a level 10 bastard, doesn't mean you should settle for the level 8 one that comes along. The only acceptable level of abuse is none.
From the sticky thread at the top of the relationships board

I think these feelings are completely normal and I think if you had your own you would be so in love with your new baby. I think it's better for you if it was an accident then I'm sure you'd just get on with it.

Did you bother reading the OP's posts?!

Op, you are obviously a lovely woman. Maybe too trusting and naive, I was too.

Your partner left the mother of his children when they were tiny, that says something about him....most good dads just wouldn't do that.
Secondly if he shows no empathy or compassion for his Ex that is a major red flag. I can't bear my Ex and he is the only Ex I feel that about.. why, because he was abusive and even when I tried to split amicable he became so vicious that I have zero communication except via email. He is incapable of empathy.
His Ex felt the same about him and I couldn't understand it, until he turned on me. It usually happens when you are trapped and vulnerable..prior to that everyone said Ex adored me and was so lovely.. slight red flag was sulking/,silent treatment, as you are experiencing.

Why not question him on how tough life must be for his Ex, how difficult it is as a single parent and what a good mum she seems to be given how well adjusted the children are. If he reacts poorly you know he has no compassion.
At some stage his Ex felt safe enough to have DC and then he flipped, if he tells you he was angry and held grudges believe him and multiple it x100. I bet it was awful for her, walking on eggshells. Ask him what she said about his moods.

Are you in contact with any of his family or friends?

Another warning for you is this man puts his job ahead of his DC. That will never change.
Life and years of experience has shown me that decent men try to make relationships work and woman (especially with young dc) never give up easily unless it is unbearable.

has been open about his part in it (he used to have a very bad temper, hold grudges etc

So what was her part in it? Or was it really all him?

If by his own admittance he had a very bad temper , then I'd bet it's 10x worse than his admission and his Ex couldn't take the abuse any more.

It looks like he moved away out of anger. I can't see why they moved 2.5 hours away from his place of work, resulting in a 5 hour daily commute. Being near grandparents on its own wouldn't account for why a couple would make this decision.

Assuming he was working an 8 hour day...add 5 hours on that and he would have barely seen the kids during the week. I suspect there's a lot more to the whole situation with his Ex.

As a pp said, the CSA get involved when the father doesn't pay voluntarily. My brother is divorced and the CSA have never been involved with child support payments.

She blocked him for a reason. Usually the reason for blocking an Ex..except for email contact, is because they were sending abusive messages or harassing you...so the advice given is block them ..only allowing email contact for essential child related matters and you check the email once a day.

He told you she was okay about you meeting the kids, but you really don't know if its true, as you've never spoken to her.

OP, you've seen glimpses of the behaviour that bothers posters on this thread. And note that pregnancy is a known trigger for abuse to start or ramp up. If you get pregnant a midwife will try to talk to you privately about the behaviour of the baby's father.

Can he change? As the saying goes; "You might possibly sponge the spots off a leopard, but he remains a leopard just the same".

He will never be a 'man without a bad temper'. The most he will ever be is 'a man who has learnt to control his bad temper'. But in order to do that, he'd need to acknowledge his problem, want to change for himself and go to counseling or anger management classes. Even so, the chances are that he won't be able to control his temper 100% of the time. It may be less of an 'explosion' and it may be fewer and farther between, but it will still happen.

It's up to you to decide if you want to chance it with him. But I will say this: It will be a helluva lot easier to get the hell outta Dodge on your own than with a child in tow.