Update...is this even a possibility?

[Cherryblossom200]

Update...is this even a possibility?

Hi everyone,

I haven’t posted on here for a while. But a few years ago I came on here for some advice.

To cut a long story short, I met someone at 37 whom I fell in love with. He was the same age as me and he told me straight away that he had a visa for Australia with the view to live there later in the year. We both felt strongly for each other so we wanted to see how things progressed.

After 5 months things were going well, however the constant pressure of him leaving was overwhelming and was the white elephant in the room. I was scared of getting hurt obviously.

We spoke about having children and he seemed to want them. Fast forward 5 months on. I fell pregnant, he ran to Australia. I didn’t stop him and we didn’t speak for about 3 years.

We only started talking just before my DD’s 3rd birthday. It started with just emails once every 2 months or so, which gradually become once every month.

He met her for the first time last year, and we still had chemistry which was quite confusing. But he left to head back to Australia and we just continued with emails.

Now it’s progressed into FaceTime calls and just recently he has started what’sapping me with photos of oz etc just light messages.

I have been incredibly careful about ensuring my DD doesn’t get hurt in this process. She is my number one priority hence why I’ve never met her meet anyone (not that I’ve dated that much 😆)

I’m happy on my own, have a job I enjoy and a lovely little home. Technically I don’t need anyone, but it would be lovely for my DD to have her dad in her life.

He is coming back for Christmas this year. and just filled out his application for citizenship which will means he can leave oz indefinitely and go back at a later date.

It’s clear that we still have a connection and chemistry, I can’t help but wonder if it’s possible if we could get back to together after everything that has happened. It would have to be taken very slowly of course.

Any advice?

Wasn't maintenance ...

OP, I and lots of others on this thread do understand why you feel an almost irresistible urge to let this man back in. We are subconsciously programmed to think that perfect family equals mummy plus daddy.

Please believe that this is an illusion and that you and your DD are much better off without this man.

You may find you have to let him in as her father at some point, this may become out of your control. However, you can drastically minimise the impact of this by not being is a relationship with him.

Be her rock, her shining light, her role model. Don't show her that it's ok to settle for a man who has behaved like this.

As for maintenance- it wouldn't mean you relinquish any kind of control. The lack of it shows this man in his true light.

Don’t let him move in. Judging by his behaviour he will be living with you, rent free, bumming about, jobless, taking your money, making a mess and continuing being a crap dad.

It always mystifies me how a person can help conceive a child then have zero interest in them.

www.humanservices.gov.au/individuals/subjects/child-support-when-parents-and-children-live-outside-australia

OP, there was a section on here which talks about being a receiving parent from someone in Oz, when you are not yourself in Australia but there are caveats obviously. When you think how hard it is for the CSA to claw money from fathers in the UK, I can imagine from Oz would be a hell of a lot harder, particularly if you didn't have details.
There have been plenty MNetters who chose not to apply for maintenance for exactly the same reason you did, others who choose not to put the father on the birth certificate for the same reasons (even though parent responsibility can be fought over whether on certifificate or not) - we all make the decisions for our children that we feel are right and best for them at the time.

Sorry, I don’t think he ‘abandoned’ her - he was always clear from the start he was going to Australia. That was his plan. Good people can make bad decisions and what matters now is that he maintains contact with his DD and shows himself to be reliable over time.

cherryblossom clearly loves her DD and has a good set up for her. It is in DD’s best interests to know who her dad is and have contact with him, as long as there are no safe-guarding issues. That is what the law would rule, but courts also believe it is better that parents agree this themselves, in the absence of abuse.

Parents do not however have a legal obligation to claim maintenance. The background to maintenance is to reduce the burden on the taxpayer to support children, if the father would not. Hence, the only moral obligation cherryblossom may have to claim maintenance would be if she was claiming tax credits or similar, and even then, it would be a moral one not a legal one. I don’t include child benefit in this as this was a universal benefit and the threshold for not getting it is high. Not that I expect OP to comment on that here, I simply make the point. If we believe in the rights of women to exercise autonomy, we should also uphold their rights not to seek financial support from men for their children, for whatever reason.

However you dress it up as money for the child, historically, it was so that the state did not have to pay. In this case, cherryblossom has a job and DD is provided for.

DD’s dad of course has both a legal and a moral obligation to pay, but it is then an interesting question if cherryblossom does not want him to. That is her choice.

In terms of her standards being on the floor, no, I don’t think so. One can easily walk into a relationship which looks great on paper, because it is new and shiny and the person has none of the flaws of the old person one is leaving behind. And that new and shiny relationship can turn into a car crash. And then the OP would be berated on here for bringing a new man into DD’s life who turned out to be not so good, possibly having another DC and adding that into the mess. As a single parent with DC, the risks of any relationship are quite high and stepfamilies of any sort are difficult (with some quite rare exceptions).

So I don’t think your bar is set low for considering this cherryblossom. I just think it is very, very early days of him even having contact again and there is so much which he needs to prove to be worthy of trust. So I would not really entertain the thought too much.

But I think you are right to facilitate contact with DD and take stock and reflect on your own emotions in this. You need to take care of yourself too. He might yo-yo in and out of your and DD’s lives, in which case that is how she will get to know her father, and you will move on with that as your normal and get on with your own life. Time will tell.

@cherryblossom200
The BIG question I raised which is crucial to all of this, is whether the pregnancy was planned and he was as much for it as you.

You have skirted over it and it's really important.

From your first post, it seems as if after 5 months of dating this man, who was all set to go to Oz, you decided to get pregnant. You say '5 months later' you were pregnant. You said you 'assumed' he wanted a child. Doesn't sound like he was 100% involved to be honest.

So, 10 months into the relationship, with man who had decided to emigrate, you got pregnant.

Was this because at 38 you thought time was running out, or because you thought a child might change his mind and he'd stay in the UK?

Unless you are honest with us and yourself, the picture is skewed.

There is a LOT missing from your account. I'm shocked at how other posters are condemning him because the way I read it - and again, sorry if this is not the case - it looks as if the baby was means to trap him. Did you honestly expect him NOT to go to Oz when you were trying to conceive?

I notice you have disappeared from this thread once people have started asking questions about your behaviour.

What you do next depends very much on what was agreed before.

This is your back story. The baby was unplanned and you had only known him for 4 months.

Im late 30's and so is my ex and father of my unborn baby (due start of Feb) we only dated for four months and I fell pregnant. We weren't being careful with protection

He wasn't wanting a child, you were.

Honestly, I think you need to look at your own levels of behaviour, not write a thread which makes out he is a bad guy.

I’ve dropped off this thread because I feel I’m being attacked for every single decision I’ve made.

It is not up to a group of mumsnetters to decide if I should should ask for maintenance. That’s my choice not yours. Is it? I am lucky to be in a position where I am financially stable and do not need his maintenance. I will leave it there.

I am happy with the decisions I’ve made so far. I will leave it there now. I do not wish to be a part of this thread any longer.

It is not up to a group of mumsnetters to decide if I should should ask for maintenance

Any man with an ounce of goodness in him, wouldn't wait for you to "ask" for financial help in raising his own child. Wake up, for the love of God, this guy is a fucking dickhead, and you are facilitating him.

He fucked off and left you, and you are now romanticising about him. I'd be RAGING at his behaviour.

Oh, and BTW, when you've been raising your child, and doing all the night waking and the grunt work, he's been fucking other women. Or are we now thinking he's been celibate all this time??

I am happy with the decisions I’ve made so far

You haven't made any decisions. He decided to leave. You didn't decide at all.

I don't think the only reason posters are suggesting maintenance from him is financial need; it's for him to show commitment to his daughter, contribution to her costs etc. It's more about the principle.

@Cherryblossom200 I read your previous posts.

This man left you because he didn't want a child. He accused you are trying to trap him by becoming pregnant. He was furious you had become pregnant. He asked you to have a termination.

Did he assume you were on the pill or did he not know how babies were made? who was not using contraception- you, him, both of you?

We don't know the details but you said you weren't taking precautions 'some of the time'.

But whichever it was, you got pregnant within 4 months of meeting him and knowing full well he was set to go to Oz.

He carried on with his plans and left you.

He's not the bastard you are trying to make out. It's one thing is the baby was 'an accident' but it reads as if you weren't taking care not to become pregnant.

I suspect he's had 4 years away and has decided as he's got older that he might want some contact with his daughter.

You see when you read your history of this it's quite different from the scenario you are trying to create now of being 'left' when you knew all along he was going to move away and a baby together was never part of the picture for him.

Op I spoke to my counsellor about this - she said that often, children of absent parents feel better if the ONLY thing the absent parent does for them is pay maintenance. And I kind of agree. It shows at least some level of interest or involvement rather than none at all.

So you may have made the decision, but actually your child, when its grown up, may get some comfort from the fact that although their father had zero interest in them, at least they paid up.

I think this is a really sad thread. If you read the history of this @annanimmity, the man did not want this child/ pregnancy. he was furious when OP said she was pregnant- they were 4 months into a relationship - just 4 months- and he accused her of trying to 'trap him'.
We don't know the details and OP is unlikely to tell us, but her posts said they 'had talked about having children ' (note- not a child together but one day with someone -) and she 'assumed' he was happy with one. Hmm.

Evidently not when he reacted as he did.

I'd be being cynical to think that the reason she has not pursued him for finances is because she got pregnant deliberately, against his wishes.

I feel very sorry for any man who ends up like this - it's very easy for women to say they are using contraception and not, or being careless with it- and hoping if they do get pregnant the man would a) stick around and b) cough up to pay for it.

I'm sorry but the OP is not stating all the facts here and her previous posts which she refers to show how it was.

Look i think it's incredibly reprehensible and selfish to get pregnant deliberately by a man when the circumstances are such that the man would be an absent or crap or abusive father. I think it's incredibly selfish to do that. hugely. My mum did it. I know other people who've done it. And the child suffers at the end of the day. It has a selfish mother and a crap or absent father. I disagree massively with what my mother did and judge her for it. (and sadly it is only one element of her extremely selfish existence).

I don't know the background to the OP's situation. i don't know whether there was a contraception failure or she tricked him or what. I think she would be incredibly selfish to try to rekindle things given the history between them. But there is a child here now. and that needs to be put first, and if that child would benefit from maintenance or whatever (and I was only putting forward what my counsellor told me) then that is what should come first.

Two excellent posts from KataraJean and JinglingHellsBells!!

it's very easy for women to say they are using contraception and not

It's also very easy for a man to wear a condom when choosing to have sex with a woman he barely knows, if he doesn't want any responsibility for a baby by her.

However, as for OP not pursuing CM due to the circumstances of the conception, I think she hasn't pursued it for fear of rocking the boat with him as she always hoped they could reconcile. OP may be financially stable right now, but who knows what may happen in years to come? That is a vast amount of money her DD might benefit from one way or another, one day. I'd have claimed it and let DD decide what to do with it when the time comes.

And we do only have OP's say so that there is any chemistry between them. There has been no mention at all of the ex actually saying anything about having another go at a relationship with OP.

I tell you what really happened. We used condoms, I put some holes in them to deliberately get pregnant. Then I pinned him down and forced me to have sex with him..so yes entirely all my fault. I set out to trap him. It is a sad story indeed.

Decent people don’t pay maintenance because their ex ‘asks’ them to. They pay it because it is just morally right to pay towards the upkeep of their children.

You may not agree OP, but bear in mind that may be how your daughter feels as she gets grows older. Nice FaceTime conversations might not cut it.

Well that's escalated, what an odd thing to say OP, if true re:contraceptive sabotage, you're as bad as him, and it looks like you tried to set up a test to make him stay in the UK/prove he was bothered- which he's failed. Not that it wasn't obvious that he's not really that bothered even without that.

If you're 'joking' OP, joking about rape is pretty low- just because you didn't get the responses on here you wanted.

You don't appear to be very in control so much as you think you are OP, others are right to say he left regardless, he was always leaving you anyway, and the news of a child made zero difference. He doesn't want to pay maintenance or he'd have offered or insisted- all you've done is give him a far easier life and he's taken you up on it. You don't HAVE to do anything, but it doesn't change the truth. Now he speaks to you when he wants to and you appear to be assuming he feels how you feel or he wouldn't be- there is no evidence for that, he's hardly begging to be with you, making excuses that he was 'scared of his feelings' is classic baloney, of he'd of had any he'd not have done what he did. Stop trying to be as pliable and pleasing as possible OP, ask him difficult questions about the depths of his 'feelings' for you, ask why he left a child and doesn't offer money for her care when everyone knows that is the right thing, ask him to state directly that he wants to get back with you- I don't think you'll get much response tbh.

Getting on with someone and chatting occasionally isn't 'chemistry' or 'there's something there's necessarily and most people would find it difficult to be attracted to someone who abandoned a child. When someone tells you who they are, listen, and all that jazz.

The whole narrative of your relationship with this guy sounds like you've assumed it's more than it is just because he's vaguely present, we can't make people love us and I think quite often in trying, forget to consider if they're even worth having when really it's about our own low self esteem and sense of value. I'm quite sure you could find a better match if you wanted OP but there is no need to be glib about what constitutes rape as you worded it, it reflects very poorly indeed.

If you did set a trap, that is terrible. I have an adult son and if any woman tricked him into impregnating her, or was careless with contraception to the same effect, I'd not want or expect my son to have to pay for the child, though he might be decent enough to offer. But I'd be livid.

Yes, you can argue it's a mutual responsibility to use contraception and yes, in the first 4 months of a relationship condoms should be used regardless.

But if (and this is an IF) a woman were to keep saying 'it's okay I'm on the Pill, or I have a coil or I think I'm sub-fertile at my age now', or whatever, it's easy to go along with that because you assume she's sensible enough not to get pregnant when she knows you have a ticket to the other side of the world.

Then when she gets in touch years later and starts emailing, Facetiming etc and seems to want to rekindle something- what are you going to think then?

Of course I’m bloody joking! The way you are all acusing me is as if I have literally forced him to have sex with them hence the reply.

Quite simply, we had unprotected sex. He knew I wasn’t on birth control. We were mutually mutually responsible for what happened so please don’t think he is the victim in this whatsoever.

He didn't speak to you until your child was 3 years old. That is a huge deal and I couldn't get past that. What kind of partner and father does that?

In fact, I know what kind of man does this- my ex. And I wouldn't give him the time of day. Waste of space.

It might be the 21st C OP but at the end of the day it's the woman usually who is left holding the baby. Men can, do and always have walked away if it's not what they wanted.

And you have said here on this thread that it was you who got in touch with him again (unless I misread.)

You were incredibly naive. Read what you posted 4 years ago. You made the whole relationship about having a baby- you even said it would be possibly your last chance to have one.

You were infatuated with him, you thought having his child would tie him to you.

I'm sorry but I have zero sympathy for you. At 37 you ought to have known better than when men say they like you and appear to want to make something of it, after weeks of being together, you don't believe every word (and have their baby.)

He clearly felt gutted, tricked (and yes, he was stupid too, if you are telling the truth.) We only have your word that you didn't use contraception. What were you thinking of??? Other than getting pregnant.

You can't seem to believe his life has moved on. Yes, of course he wants perhaps to know what his DD is like. You are intent on pursuing him and asking if this relationship can be re-kindled.

Leave the poor man alone. When your DD is 18 she can seek him out if she wants.