Are you married to an investment banker?

[LoveMarigold]

If so I'd love to hear some wisdom from you. (NC as some people know my username on here).

I married an investment banker (VP in a well known top city investment bank) last year and we are trying for a family. All great and lovely atm.

I am extremely alert to the oft cited reasons why some couples' marriages crack or fail- childcare, no time for each other, uneven distribution of chores, no time away from parenting, long working hours etc, the list goes on.

We are keen to put things in place and be alert to these risks, and manage things as best we can under our specific circumstances. Obviously the massive pro is his high salary which should increase, and I am extremely grateful and aware how lucky we are. The cons are the hours, and lack of time together.

For context I earn a good (normal) salary and teach in an adult education college 3 days pw and do 1-1 tutoring from home the other two days.

If you've been married to a city banker at this level you will know the very specific culture of long hours and possible impact on weekends, holidays etc. At the moment he works until about 10-11pm on an average day, with the occasional early finish, and occasional manic few days of all hours when a project is finishing. We have obviously spoken about our future but I would love to hear other opinions.

Wives / husbands of investment bankers- What advice if any would you have in hindsight to a newly married couple starting out and hoping to start a family and stay in love / strong in our marriage?

It will be hard but not impossible.

DH works, I don’t. We’re both happy. The most important thing is that when he’s not working, he is present with me and our DCs

Before children, he worked crazy hours. But as we had children, he stepped back from those hours and changed jobs to get a better balance even though by most standards his hours are still long.

If you work too, then you need childcare that works for you. Will you have family to help out? Do you have a good network of friends?

Thanks Eye. I will probably stop work for a bit / work part-time. We are open to looking at these options. We are lucky that his salary will cover us as a family - though obviously anything I can earn will support. It makes sense for him to continue working ft as he is by far the highest earner. I family close by so we would need to pay for childcare if/ when needed.

I could also do some work from home but I know I would need childcare then too- eg nanny.

I think the same principles apply to any high pressured and high payed career, whether it’s investment banking or QC. I understand what you are saying though because I used to married to someone of that job description and it ended in divorce (irreconcilable difference).

I realised that no amount of material luxuries made up for how little time we spent together and that if we were to have children, there was no question that the expectation would be for ME to cut back/give up my career as the lower earner.

Some people are more adaptable though. I know several women who accept that this is the price you pay for the kind of lifestyle that is provided.

I also know couples who are BOTH highly driven career wise and they work by having a multitude of help. Nannies, housekeepers, cooks etc.

Only you know what you are happy to live with and what compromises you are prepared to make to make the marriage work.

This isn’t specific to I-banking. Any hi paying professional job will be the same.
Don’t expect him to be doing chores or be too involved in day-day parenting.
But the positive is that you can afford help and chose to work or not at your own pace.
For your sanity - and long term wellbeing - i’d not give up work completely but would keep some part time work going.
Will help you avoid being stuck at home and feeling like you lost yourself and were reborn as a mother/housekeeper.
Some men change a lot as they become more senior. And start looking down at the W at home. Or feeling superior to her.
Having your own life outside of home is useful in preventing it.

Good luck with starting your family!
And don’t save on help. Hire as many as you need - and a little bit more. Rather than arguing with him over not helping enough.
Will keep the peace and make you all happier.

I was

It was hard, I ended up being responsible for everything to do with home and kids, DH barely saw kids when they were small as he was rarely home before their bedtime

He would call me from a swanky rooftop bar in Rio, whilst I was mopping up babysick... that sort of thing

I ended up in this rarified life where all my friends had maids/nannies and beauty treatments, all kind of fad diets, expensive lifestyle...

It almost broke our marriage, and my mental health (pnd, feeling isolated, hating my life whilst I ought to be grateful)

Then DH got a burn out and quit his job

Not sure what to advise you, just that it can be a gilded cage existence, and don't lose yourself in that world.

A small imbalance (looking mostly after home and kids) can easily turn into total imbalance.

IMO lots of investment bankers develop a huge sense of entitlement, it can turn people into real selfish arseholes

Ok, saying that, this won't happen to you both. But we were def not the only ones who crashed and burned out of that life....

Josuk, interesting crosspost with you, where we both mention losing yourself as a risk

I am not one (altho i rarely see my DH as he is a muso) but i know a few. Would reiterate what PP have said about attitude of the men, they really do start to see themselves as superior and will not respect the sahm role. things you can do are never ask for permission to hire help/spend money/make family decisions/choose school etc

the money is often not worth it imo. sorry xx

As per app, my dh also burnt out after 10 years. I did shoulder everything in the initial stages, and don’t have family here so did everything! As time progressed, it was clear two of our dds had ASD and life was very hard indeed. He’s work (big US bank) were actually very decent to us and he did get off for appts etc and he took more and more on at home. But never being around for dinner and bed times was breaking me. He refused as much travel and entertaining as possible. He finished work and set up a (not v successful) business and is very flexible with timing. 10+ years of high salary means we now live off savings, though I’ve got a PT job now but v low wage. He has a longer-standing offer to go back to his role and it’s an option if we do run out of money.

I'm not married to a banker but to someone in a similar high paid long hours type role.

I echo a lot of the stuff others have said. Don't expect them to help you in the home. Gilded cage is the perfect description. I have loads of handbags, watches and other material shit but I rarely see my husband and he lives the high life while I'm cooking chicken nuggets for the kids. It's a hard slog and I'm hoping it will change when the kids are older and more independent. I sometimes wonder if I'd be better off on my own though.

Best advice from an old timer.

Burn out is real. Save and save some more, and don’t automatically assume it will last forever. It really won’t. Don’t upgrade your lifestyle as he becomes more senior, if he is fired/burns out/has heart failure you will be screwed. Plan for the worst hope for the best. No one ever thinks it will happen to them until it does.

If you are planning to keep your career consider having just one child, as soon as you have more the whole thing becomes a spectacular nightmarish juggle. You are most likely to give up with the sheer effort involved, as you can expect zero support given dh hours.

Even with one child ship in lots of help or you will grow to resent your dh. Develop and continue to have your own life, friends, hobbies and dreams. Without this you really could wake up not recognising yourself anymore.

On the plus side you will have security, safety. Your child will be very well cared for, with the best start in life. You will have time to devote to your child. You will travel to incredible places, live in a lovely home, can follow your own dreams unhindered. Make it work for you.

Yes no one is going to realise that it can be lonely, isolating etc as it can for any new parent. So make friends and make use of your home to enjoy friends, parties and fun times. Plan great weekends and enjoy your life.

He won’t be there always to help with the emotional load, so great friends are a must.

Use the money to develop your own career once your baby is in school and beyond. You can make the most of your opportunities, look after yourself and don’t take on too much and you will be fine.

I work in a similar industry and would point out that there is no need for them to work those hours. I don’t and never have as my DH and DC’s are more important. It has become custom and practice for some to believe they need to be at work silly hours. In reality it’s an insecurity that they won’t look committed if they don’t stay in the office.

ARe they home from work yet? If not I’d be asking them why not?

Here is my advice

Save up the money. Really easy to blow it but treat every bonus as the last. Can’t stress this enough. Don’t scale up your spending as salaries and bonuses rise.

If he has deferred comp and there are regular redundancy rounds look carefully at the deferral terms - often you get to keep it. So don’t quit if you can be made redundant and management may be more open in letting you go amicably if they need to cut heads anyway.

What is his end game? Does he intend to do that for 20 years? That is a really different proposition to doing it for a few years for the cash or experience. Plan.

What do more senior people in his department do? Do they have partners who work? Do any of them leave (even day once or twice a week) at 6pm to go see the kids? What role models are there and what advice can they give him?

Does he really have to do those hours every night? I used to do them so I get there is volume. But also if you’re expecting to be there until 10-11 it can be easy to take bits of the day easier whereas if you know tonight I need to leave at 6 for the nanny, it focuses the mind.

The more senior you get actually the most flex you can often have. Also I’ve seen front office people who have had more flexibility than you’d have seen 5 years ago. May have to compromise slightly on the work (eg more structuring than execution/client management) but there are more options than 70 hours a week or quit.

Think about amount of travel he may need to do too.

If you have a baby unless you have family support get a mother’s help or similar to give you some extra sleep or breathing space. If you’re going to be doing 95% of childcare in the week get yourself some down time by replacing some of what he could otherwise do.

Get a cleaner and outsource laundry and gardening so you’re not left with that all on top of the daily grind of tidying, loading dishwasher etc. But don’t go crazy on costs

As a working father he may practically get a round of applause for saying “Wednesday night is baby night” absent major deals closing. Sexist but there it is.

Hope that helps.

Ps gardening leave can be amazing family time. We have the best memories of doing this when ours were small. One was extended. If you can try and build this into your plans. My dh really bonded with his dc this way, it was magical being paid to be together and go on long holidays knowing you have a better job waiting when you return.

I'm not married to one but I've worked with them in the past and am in a similar role.

Cards on the table (and that's not what you'll ever be told by HR, but it's true nonetheless): you can't get and maintain an executive position in these types of jobs unless you work pretty insane hours at least some of the time. You also can't pull it off without your team fully on board. And that means late hours together. And that means emotional bonds which won't be shared with family (just like yours at home won't be with us colleagues).

I'm a woman and don't have children. But I've long maintained that I'd just hate to be married to my male colleagues. They're all (well, most) lovely men whom I appreciate and admire. Some I even happen to find physically attractive. But as the woman who works alongside them, finishing things at hotel bars at 2am for the 8am meeting the following day: I just couldn't live with a man like that if I weren't also in the same line if work.

My most emotionally mature colleague freely acknowledges that his wife is functionally a single mother.

Just wanted to add my dh never goes to bars to 2am, or at all nor lots of travelling.
All meetings are breakfast or lunch if that. If your dh is a senior professional banker the days of partying and jollies are well and truly over.
Most are at their desks by 6.30am latest, and lead a very disciplined life. Although other areas of banking no doubt still have that culture...that is not my experience

I'm married to a corporate lawyer so similar issues. I won't lie it's been a strain since we had children. At least you are going into this with your eyes open.

Do you have any family support or close friends? The thing I find hard is the long long days and nights with no support with young kids. And then when he is around, he's not really there iyswim? Always on his phone, or just knackered.

We've basically been zombies the last 5 years and I have thought about divorce I won't lie! We've just started trying to set aside time once every 6 weeks or so to go out on a date (need a babysitter as no family support), and he tries to make the effort 1x week to be home and properly on it rather than 3x half heartedly.

I feel quite resentment about how all the emotional labour has fallen on me and my career has taken a backseat really.

We also are actually considering a change too as I'm not sure it's really that healthy long term. Yes money but to what end?

@Taken - I don’t agree. You can maintain a senior role without the silly hours. I do - Director grade and put on fast track promotion route when I was 25 - the year I had DT’s. I would never be able to do silly hours as the DT’s are more important (they are now at Uni) and DH (a GP) have always jointly parented them and we don’t have any family living in the UK.

@Springwalk, we're also never really partying at 2am, really. Well, some of the analysts are, but they're young and not that much use when you're really deep in the shit and trying to undo a major fuckup deep into the night. Bars happen to be suitable mobile offices, that's all. I'm in my mid 30s and way too old to party. Most of my male peers are as old or older than me.

To be fair, I'm not and never have been in house at a bank. I'm in consulting. But banks belong to our clients and I'm more than aware that I'll get urgent 3am emails answered within 30 minutes from very senior management type bankers.

The colleagues I say I wouldn't want as partners? All senior executive types in their forties and fifties, all married (and most still on their first wife to my ever lasting surprise), all fathers.

I'm not saying these types of men can't make good husbands and fathers. I'm saying that it's exceedingly rare to be in a position to have such a job and also spend anywhere near enough time with family.

There will always be exceptions. Some partners (DH/DW) will work long hours and some won’t, as you can see from PP.
Mine does. He’s a partner at a Hedge Fund. At this level you can get extra help. If Not a nanny you could have a cleaner three times a week. Few hours a day. No need to cook or clean, outsource those chores. All your time is spent on bringing up your kids with no additional headaches. My DH always ends up working an hour or every day on holiday. But that’s ok with me. I go to the spa
OP if you want to make something work, one can. It all depends on what mind set you have.
If you want to go back to work, get a nanny or pick an excellent nursery which would work for you. The children’s will be fine.

Not an investment banker but senior in an American bank.

You will be the one who is on your own when they have to go travel with very little notice. You’ll do every parents evening, pretty much all sports days, all house admin, all childcare other than a couple of hours at the weekend on your own. The other mums at school will ask you if you have a partner and you’ll never expect him to be home for bathtime.

Buy in help, expect it to be tough and make sure that you have a babysitter from early on.

The salary is wonderful and buys you choice. We moved one of ours to private school in a rush with no questioning about whether we could pay the fees, we just knew it wasn’t a problem.

Don’t go completely mad on spending. I’ve beautiful jewellery and handbags, we travel several times a year and our kids can do all the extra curricular they like but I’m always conscious that the bonuses could end tomorrow and that he could burn out. So we’ve a nice but not remarkable house, nice but not outrageous cars and we don’t live a designer lifestyle. We try to live within his basic and use the bonus for luxuries.

And don’t give up your career. Not needing to work gives you options but seriously, keep your career going even PT and never give up every ounce of financial independence. I’ve always worked but in a career you do for the love not the money although I’m now very senior. It took him a long time to realise that just because I don’t earn what he does it doesn’t make my job any less important

I’m married to a senior one and work part time myself. Weekends are spent as a family, ferrying kids to this that and the other. What I find is that it’s important he gets to spend some time doing what he enjoys over the weekend (or alternate weekends) as helps him unwind, good for his mental health and therefore good for all of us! In his case golf. In summer he will play a few holes in the evening or first thing in the morning. Winter not so much! Our kids are school age so when I’m not working I can do something for me then. He also cycles to and from work as much as he can, also good for distressing!

Thanks so much for all your pearls of wisdom. To answer a few questions:

DH is currently VP (made VP last year) so still earlyish but right at the stage where his salary and quality of working hours has made a big jump. When we were first together he was doing 3am every night but now that doesn't happen. The VP's one year above him do not stay in the office beyond about 7 normally and seem to do as they please on normal working days, coming in late etc, leaving early, but with the added responsibility of many more trips away, long haul flights etc.

He is quite clear about his trajectory and goals and thinks the really shitty hard work should die down in the next year or so. He has a good support network at work in terms of senior people who seem to think highly of him and want to support him to progress, and also some contacts at other banks where there could be opportunities in the future.

We have spoken a lot about things and are trying to stay aware of the pitfalls. He does not see himself doing this forever but thinks in 10 years he should be in a position to do what he wants within reason.

Yes gardening leave is a good point! This will become 4 months or so for his next move so could be used strategically.

Re his attitude. That sounds awful about some men looking down at SAHM. How horrible. I would be mortified if he took on that attitude and definately wouldn't tolerate it. He definitely isn't like that now or there's no way I'd have married him! He is v supportive of me doing my own thing and being ambitious / supports my work though we are aware I will need to be SAHM for the early months obviously. I don't know what else to do to prevent this attitude other than hope that he doesn't become an asshole and end our marriage?

Neither of us is particularly flashy, and we are both fairly grounded I think. He comes from a lower income family with their fair share of financial issues and we talk about how to use bonuses to support our future rather than splash out on material things. The only thing we want to spend money on is travel and holidays because they give us wonderful memories and I think this would be the case if we had children too.

The mothers help idea is a good one and would perhaps enable me to do a bit of work from home too? As long as I was disciplined and left the mothers help to look after child for a set time? Or would I need full nanny for this?

Also great suggestions about using money to buy time through having cleaners, childcare etc.

Thank you

Save...
I’m not in banking but work at a senior level in a pressurised industry.
Burn out is real.

An 8k pm mortgage and 2 kids is private school is no fun when you haven’t worked for a decade and he can’t work any more.

• Understand what you are signing up for (I walked away from a relationship because I knew it was a deal breaker for me - it was very hard but I knew I wouldn’t be happy. I wanted my life, not to facilitate someone else’s )
• Set up some passive income streams.
• Hire in help.
• Discuss expectations before having kids
• Have your “own thing” going on - whether it’s hobbies, a money making venture or a charity / volunteering project.

I am. Married for 18 years to someone who has worked their way up into senior management. I didn’t work for 10 years plus to accommodate small children and thier busy routine. I now work again as child is almost at end of education. It’s been very hard and at times I could happily have left and it looked back. Typical 12-14 hour day including commute and then there is the Continous after work drinks/nights out/client meetings and over seas travel which meant I got fuck all support. If I was I’ll it was tough luck -no way was he taking time off to help.

It’s all good and well putting things in place but it all goes to pot in the event of a system failure/market volatility/clients demands etc... it wouldn’t have worked if I had expected or demanded he helped, our marriage would have failed. To be honest it almost did.

To add VP is nothing - wait until he hits senior management. The majority of my H peers are divorced at least once. It’s a miracle we are still together!!