Married to someone with Aspergers: support thread 4 (replacement one)

[changerofnameaspiethread]

This thread is for partners seeking to understand the dynamics of their relationship with someone with ASD. It is a support thread, and a safe space to have a bit of a rant. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner. Otherwise the thread can be deleted, like Support Thread 4 The Original.

Previous threads:
1st thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3281058-Is-anyone-married-to-someone-with-Aspergers
2nd thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3325419-married-to-someone-with-asperger-s-support-group-here
3rd thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/a3463341-Married-to-someone-with-Aspergers-Support-group-here-Thread-3

However I don’t think he’s not that into you, I think instead that he knows he has blown it and doesn’t know what to do to address that in a constructive way. Knowing you have let someone down or disappointed someone is a very hard thing for anyone to come to terms with. Certainly my DH can’t cope with it at all and responds with anger, withdrawal and rage at the injustice of it all, blaming me rather than himself.

This is very insightful, thanks, Apple.

Things have come to a head here, well, to a lump. I have an appointment at the breast clinic on Monday.

If I said I don't feel nurtured or cared for you'd understand, wouldn't you?

I threw a mug this morning. Usual stupid circular discussion about "our relationship isn't working" "you are horrible to me" "I'm not meaning to be horrible, I am lonely" "see? you accuse me all the time"

Fucking hell.

He can't help it. So, I have to do everything alone. And, there is so much to do, I am responsible for everyone's emotional wellbeing. It's exhausting.

I just want to be cared for, to have him say "it'll be ok, whatever happens we'll make it ok"

I'm really quite sad.

Oh @vivariumvivariumsvivaria that’s hard. I do empathise. My DH cannot cope with anything he interprets as criticism...anything. So, if I try to discuss a sensitive issue at all, he would instantly take it personally and as an accusation of his worth rather than simply feedback or a point for discussion.

And yes, when you need your DH to give you strength at this time it is really hard to know it might not be there. It’s soul destroying. I’m never sure whether it is because my DH is just entirely absorbed in his own thoughts and feelings or because he simply doesn’t know how to respond and is fearful of getting it wrong. In any case, when you need support, neither of those responses is going to cut it.

I am so sorry you are feeling sad. It’s perfectly understandable. Can you tell him exactly what you need? Robotic I know but I am learning that I have to be totally specific if I need something. He isn’t going to sense it (despite being sensitive to a raft of other things). It’s draining and exhausting. I’d love a spontaneously warm response to reassure me. Instead, I get ‘What do you want me to do.’...

Be aware though that the way things are will be magnified at present due to the lockdown / coming out of lockdown. The strain relationships are under has intensified. It’s hard. Please do not feel he doesn’t love you or you aren’t worth his love. His love just doesn’t necessarily translate into what you need. Your clinic appointment may well be worrying him but he just won’t know what to do to make it better. I could give you a similar example from my own life where we were faced with a life or death crisis and he just went off and said / did really inappropriate things, including complain about the financial impact, rather than manage the crisis that was directly in front of us. It was bizarre. Total denial. I had to take charge and make all the decisions on my own.

I hope things go ok for you on Monday. Can you get support from elsewhere (not the same I know)?

It's been a very odd weekend, I think I've learned a bit about my husband's thought processes. I'm fine, by the way, phew.

He didn't know how to support me, so he was defensive because he was criticising himself - which manifests with him accusing me of criticising him even when my words were not critical. He hears it, even when I haven't said it.

Throwing the mug got his attention - he actually made eye contact and I managed to get him to see that this situation really should be about me and not him.

He asked to feel the lump - so I let him. He burst into tears, said "well, you'll be dead in 2 or 3 weeks" and took the kids out for the afternoon. WTF?

He brought me cups of tea yesterday, suggested a takeaway and a family film, then got totally pissed - but he wasn't unpleasant.

Appointment was fine, boob is lumpy but it's hormonal and not sinister. So, I came home, he gave me a cuddle - like an actual, affectionate hug, told me well done (?) and that we should celebrate.

It's as if he felt the lump and so this was a "real" threat to life - rather than the abstract threat to our marriage that my feelings are?

There have been multiple occasions over the years where things have been hard or worrying, but none as concrete as a big lump. Our middle kid was chronically sick for years, but it was subtle - and repeatedly life threatening - but, there was no "see? here is the thing" to make it obvious for him. He was absent all those times, totally unable to step up - but, this? He is behaving differently.

I don't know. He's a mystery.

Anyway, my tit is not going to kill me. So, yay.

@vivariumvivariumsvivaria So glad your check went well and the outcome was positive! Really pleased for you.

he was defensive because he was criticising himself - which manifests with him accusing me of criticising him even when my words were not critical. He hears it, even when I haven't said it

Yes. 2000% yes. My DH hears criticism too where there is none. How he feels about himself seems to link with how he thinks I feel about him. He doesn’t see me as a different person who is entitled to different thoughts and feelings about an identical situation. Strangely he will believe another person’s perspective so he doesn’t see himself as ‘linked’ with them, just me. It’s hard to explain and harder to understand but sadly it comes across as pure hatred towards me sometimes, perhaps because I somehow reflect how he feels about himself.

Like your DH, my feelings seem very difficult for him to navigate. He can’t bear it if I am upset or worried about something and will get angry with me. He would definitely need a lump or something concrete to understand and accept that my upset or anxiety is justified. Maybe he thinks that somehow he is responsible or to blame in these situations. Again, he’s different with me than with others....really kind and caring towards others in their distress.

That’s what hurts.

I am glad your DH is behaving differently. I really am. I hope it continues. Flowers for you 💐

That's interesting that your DH does similar, Apple

I'm under no illusion that this will last. For instance, I cooked and cleared away dinner, he's gone back to work in the office because he is busy. So, I'm not sure when the "celebration" will happen. It won't.

But, I do think I've got a bit more insight into how very differently the way we think is. The lump really wasn't a big deal, it was worrying but the odds of it being frightening were low - while repeated situations with our son have been of grave concern, but the measurements were in blood gases and oxygen counts and not from something he can visualise like a lump.

Oh, and also, he's a tit man. So that is probably significant. I could lose a leg and he'd barely blink.

Hi everyone. I've probably posted here before but don't remember.

I looked for the Cassandra thread but couldn't find it 🙁

Is there a separate forum out there for partners with HFA/Asperger's? I need somewhere to go to really get specific.

I'm struggling with my marriage right now and I don't know what to do. We've been together for 20 years and he makes me feel like I'm losing my mind still. We have 'breakthrough' conversations and I feel hopeful then when it goes back to normal oppressive controlling gaslighting he says he only 'admitted' things before because it was a catch 22 and he did it so we could move on and that I'M the abusive/gaslighting one.

After all this time it's still the same. We have 2 children with ASC and I sacrifice so much of myself and my needs for the 3 of them but no one recognises it. When it gets too much and I voice how I feel, HE is the victim and he begins a tirade about my faults and when I tell him that isn't the point he says 'oh it's all about you' and says I'm the one who cannot communicate because I get angry.

I'm exhausted and desperately unhappy but also codependent and I do love him. His abuse is complicated but is definitely rooted in his autism. His inability to communicate, see my perspective, recognise he can be wrong and understand emotions. I am convinced he has PDA but an evolved insidious adult version. It's very subtle and difficult to define when he completely denies everything I say (pathologically).

I can't get through to him or stop the cycle but he will be evil if I make him leave (don't even think he would) a s I can't leave him with the children because I have no money and no where to go. He will not do it amicably at all. I'm utterly trapped

Hi everyone,

Been lurking on these threads for a few months and thought I would finally ask advice.

It's not about a partner, but about a manager at work. I really like him and he flirted with me a few times so I developed a crush on him but this is a separate issue - I think I'll never find out why he flirted and what he meant to happen, if anything. And crushes do happen and don't mean much!

What I'm trying to understand now is how best to cope working for him. Me and a colleague are very good workers but also a little excentric and emotional. Our previous manager used to repect our work and knew we felt proud of working there. He used to come and help us sometimes, just to 'hang out' with us, and used to tell people how good we were at our jobs.

Then he left and was replaced by a man who everyone says is 'on the spectrum'. We like and admire him - he's a workaholic and gets lots done, even though we're left picking up the pieces quite a lot as he's not good at administration, and he's increased our workload a lot. But we're happy to help him make his 'vision' happen. We initially felt he liked us too - he's charming and funny with us at work events.

But we struggle with his lack of engagement with us. Even after bonding over drinks, he will be totally expresionless the next day, and his face falls in a somewhat hostile way. He asks us how we are in a mechanical way and doesn't listen to our answers. Sometimes he thanks us for our hard work but it sounds so fake and unfeeling that I'd rather he didn't think he had to do this.

He also never listens to our advice, even though we're specialised in our own areas, and will always go to someone who he thinks is superior to decide even the simplest things, which we could easily sort out. We feel that he sees us as low status employees.
But apart from that, all his actions are kind - it's just that I can't tell if they're motivated by real kindness or by a sense of duty, by not daring to say no, or to be seen to be kind to be promoted. He's a total cypher and never reveals anything so no one knows what excites him.

After lockdown he seemed genuinely pleased to see us again. It was lovely to see him too; I find him incredibly sweet and like being around him. But I know that soon, he will have his daily hostile expression again and be back to taking us for granted, but choosing to switch on the charm when he wants to.

It's hard for my colleague and I as we are very loyal. My colleague told me during lockdown that he was surprised when friends respected him - he was so used to his opinions being dismissed because of his perceived 'lowly' status, which is drummed into him daily at work.

I've tried to understand my manager for a long time and would like to know if he has any affection for us or just sees us as there to work for him. The fact that he seems to have missed us is positive. I suppose I could get used to the idea that he appreciates us but doesn't feel the need to constantly show it, and that he can't help his behaviour.

YesAnastasia I really feel for you. I could have written so much of what you have said. I have been having counselling for this...the controlling behaviour, the “I only admitted that so we could move on”, the gaslighting... You never know who you are dealing with...is it the real person or a ‘facade’. I also get told that I’m the abusive one so I feel your pain. His inability to deal with various situations means he ‘feels’ abused because he ‘feels’ incompetent and powerless. When he feels out of control of events, out comes the ‘you are abusing me’ accusations, regular as clockwork.

It isn’t you. It really isn’t you. If you are anything like me you will have tried to be caring and understanding but although it might get a positive response in the short term, my DH can’t sustain it without feeling resentful. Everything comes back to him, how he is feeling, how things are for him. My (very basic) needs or wishes are met with comments like ‘You always want more than you have‘ as though my expectations are too high. Only he is allowed to have needs and wishes.

Go for counselling. See if your local NHS talking therapies service can help. There are more and more counsellors these days who take a special interest in autism and working with the partners of people with autism so it is important you discuss this during the assessment.

Don’t get burned out - build yourself up. You are worth it. for you.

@YellowSapphire I can only talk from my own personal experience of both living and working with a person with autism. Everyone with autism is an individual obviously although there may be some shared traits.

Much of what you describe is what I, and others, have experienced: the ability to turn on the charm when a situation calls for it but be completely different later on. My DH has autism and can be very, very kind to people and develop intense friendships for short periods of time. But the friendships don’t last and once the individuals are no ‘use‘ to him, they are forgotten and it is like they don’t exist any more. I can only describe it as him needing people for what they can give him, rather than what he can provide. Don’t get me wrong...he really wants to be supportive and can do things that really help people out. But it doesn’t last because it can’t be sustained so people can feel rejected in the long term.

The ‘seeking support from superiors’ is an interesting one because status is incredibly important to my DH and also to my colleague who has autism. They both place significant value on people’s position (and pay) and get preoccupied with some people’s qualifications regardless of whether the person is any good at their job. Both need to be liked so are keen to impress their colleagues and want positive feedback. But actually giving it out themselves can come across as mechanical. Certainly my colleague will say he has to ‘thank his staff (because that’s what good managers do)’ as though it is part of his routine and responsibilities rather than being a spontaneous and heartfelt gesture. Is it genuine? Yes it is but I would say he is doing it more to fulfil the role of being seen as a good manager than doing it because he instinctively wants to.

All I can say is don’t take the hostile facial expressions to heart. Your manager may well be thinking things through and processing stuff in his head...nothing to do with you. But flirtation...all I know is that someone with autism may do or say what they have learned from watching others or watching TV, sometimes inappropriately given the situation. It can catch you out because you think it is genuine and heartfelt which it may be, in that moment, but can it be sustained? Maybe not. Certainly my colleague will be very kind to people but if they become a bit ‘needy’ he tires of them very rapidly.

I wouldn’t get caught up in wondering whether your manager likes and respects you. He is how he is. Enjoy your jobs, enjoy your colleagues and don’t put too much emphasis on what your manager says and does. Don’t let his mood or behaviour influence your day. It sounds as though you are keen to build a good working relationship with your manager which is great but the best thing you can do is expect nothing, take each day as it comes and support your colleagues. It’s hard if you are used to a reciprocal working relationship with your previous manager as you may not get it with this one. There will be times when you think you have achieved it closely followed by something happening which makes you feel as though you got it wrong. Don’t let it influence who you are. Be yourself, don’t doubt yourself.

@Apple222 Thank you so, so much for taking the time to answer me and explain how it all works.

Unfortunately, my manager's hot and cold behaviour 'triggered' something in me and has indeed made me needy and craving his approval. I hide it from him and go out of my way to avoid him, emailing him rather than going to him in person.

I have a crush, on and off, which can be very intense; he makes it worse by intermittently turning on the charm. Even though he's not conventionally good looking, he is intelligent and his focus and attention make me feel incredible.

It has been illuminating to read your explanation as to why he does this. It's desctructive - I have friends who fancy me and if they had behaved in the way he sometimes has, I would know for sure that I'm important to them and that they think about me a lot. But to know that he forgets all about me afterwards is so destructive!

I have also seen him focusing on other women, although not seen him flirt with them. I oscillated between jealousy and thinking it was professional (they do a lot of work for him) but in the end there were so many that I kind of got used to it.

I know that a relationship is impossible and that if it was, my life would be a misery as his behaviour wouldn't change; the interest he's displayed wouldn't come back and I'd be a backround person in his life. I need someone who responds to my emotions and shows he cares. But I'm addicted to this man and his complete mysteriousness. I am working on filling my life so hope the crush will stop soon. Luckily, it's not always there!

From your lovely answer to my question, you sound very kind and empathetic so it must be hard for you being married to an autistic man.

Thanks again.

@YellowSapphire No problem at all. As I say, I can only speak from my own experience and it is very, very hard. My colleague and husband, for example, can both give people the impression they are genuinely interested in them...and they might be interested for sure... but when the other person then expects or demands something of them they may not be able to reciprocate or will react in a really dysfunctional (possibly damaging) way. The usual ‘rules’ of boundaries and reciprocation aren’t there. I am sorry to say this, and I am sure it does not apply to every person with autism, but it can come across as very selfish and self-absorbed. Not necessarily evident in the short term when they manage to put on a facade and seem really focused and attentive but evident as time goes on and particularly when meeting the demands of relationships where they have to consistently think of another person’s needs, empathise with them and deal with things that are out of their control.

Read Aspergers in Love by Maxine Aston. It will tell you what you need to know!

Find a person who can reciprocate your care and love. Not saying people with autism aren’t deserving of care and love. They are. They have so many positive traits. But it makes life harder and relationships harder when they are already hard enough!!

@Apple222 Thanks, I might read the book although I am now thankfully in a phase when I don't care about him at all.

He's gone back to acting unemotional and I have some professional gripes with him. He will listen to anyone who hints I haven't done my job properly, even though there's a explanation why the task hasn't been done. He never keeps information in his mind & I feel he never has my back. I'll see what I can do to make communication clearer and make his job easier.

Also, now that I realise that what charmed me was a mask, I have lost interest. He can convincingly imitate people who flirt, or can pretend to have an opinion, but then forgets all about it. I realise now that he's said very little to me, and it was all soundbites. He can never make a decision and always asks other people to decide the smallest things so I wonder if he has any strong opinions of his own.

I was a bit resentful that he'd messed with me by love-bombing me, and that he keeps doing it any time there's a work event, but will now completely avoid him. Sometimes he can have a knowing smile, almost a smirk, when we have a meeting, or look at my legs, but I'll make it clear that it's not appropriate.

His behaviour never seemed to make sense, and I was fascinated by him for ages. I wanted to know what drove him, what his values were, and I now realise that his mystery was a symptom of his condition, shared by many others. It's great to have finally solved the mystery! At one point I thought he was a narcissist, being hot and cold on purpose, but good to know he wasn't manipulative or malicious.

It's been really interesting reading and finding out about aspergers and I wish all of you all the best. Stay strong and have as many friends as possible to support you emotionally...

YellowSapphire It’s hard to say what is going on with him isn’t it? Sounds as though you may need to have a professional conversation with him to discuss how he would prefer you and your colleague to communicate with him as you are concerned that there may be some confusion. My DH will always try to please the person in front of him but then they never really know how he genuinely feels because he is trying to ‘do the right thing’ rather than be authentic. Of course this may not be due to autism...more it could be to do with his life experience as a result of autism...I am sure that ongoing struggles with interpersonal interactions can have a massive impact on someone to the extent that they lose who they really are in trying to be what they think other people want. Who knows? In any case it makes for confusion and difficulties.

Perhaps he thinks / knows you were attracted to him and enjoyed the attention. However you weren’t getting anything out of this and perhaps a lack of empathy means that he does not understand that His behaviour is inappropriate.

So yes, it is for you to know and set firm boundaries, be clear about what you find appropriate / not appropriate in the workplace (which by the way includes work events).

I was only saying the other day that there can feel like a fine line between autism and narcissism unfortunately. They can present quite similarly.

I think you have been really intelligent in your approach to all this...finding out more about autism and trying to understand it. Your manager is very fortunate to have an employee who tries to understand the condition rather than simply judge and complain. Do not accept any inappropriate behaviour though, that’s for sure. If anyone was looking at my legs in meetings in a way that made me feel uncomfortable I would address it, autism or no autism. Don’t put up with it or make excuses for it. Know your boundaries, keep them firm.

Take care and good luck!!

@YellowSapphire Post above!!

@Apple222 Thanks! He's caused havoc in the workplace, that's for sure. So many complaints about how disorganised he is. He drives the receptionist nuts! He couldn't have known I was a hormonal mess (early forties) so that his flirting would mess with me so much. Funny man, quite endearing in a way, the way he blunders along leaving a trail of high emotion in his wake, while he's oblivious and bland faced .

Of course, it's not funny while it's happening. I hope I'm over my crush now...

Hi, I was hoping to join you all here please. I used to be on the Cassie threads a few years back. I didn’t always post very often but always found it helpful to read people’s posts and know that other people were dealing with the same stuff......

I’ve been married for 19 years, have 2 DCs and DH was diagnosed with AS about 8 years ago. Things are pretty awful to be honest and if it was just me I think I’d leave.

Anyway, I hope it’s okay for me to join you all. ☕️🍰💐

@ SnapCackleFlop I feel your pain. I really do. I have only recently started looking at this thread. It isn’t a busy one so I thought I would at least acknowledge your post. As you say it is at least reassuring to read about other people’s experiences and know you are not alone.

Please feel free to PM me too. I’m no expert but do at least have some understanding of both living and working with someone with autism and the challenges this can present.

Look after yourself first and foremost (I am myself just writing a list of things I want to achieve in the next few years as unfortunately my life seems to revolve around my DH which sucks the life out of me it has to be said...)

@SnapCackleFlop Above!!

@Apple222 thank you so much for your kind reply! I could weep just with the relief of it really! I find that for me I go through really tough times and other times it’s not so bad but right now things are hard.

I read a post of yours where you described your DH trying to please the person in front of him, my DH does exactly this but it can heartbreaking because for me it feels like me and our children are always last and gaining favour with someone is more important. He really doesn’t seem to understand any boundaries or limits - of course it’s fine to make a joke with someone but I feel like he’ll say horrible things that simply aren’t true just to agree with someone. He’s made horrible jokes about me too 😢

He loves films and I used to say I wish there was one of those ‘director’s commentary’ things for real life because unless I spell out why something might be hurtful or wrong he just can’t see it. And it’s not even as simple as just explaining something - he’s very hypersensitive to criticism (even when he isn’t being criticised) and it’s utterly exhausting to have to live that way....

I’d love to hear the list of things you want to achieve! I think I should do something similar but don’t know where to start, sometimes it’s very depressing and I’m worn out from just surviving day by day. I’ve been doing some mindfulness courses and it’s great but we did a thing recently about visualising our allies and I found it very upsetting because I feel like I have none. I don’t really tell people how things are at home so feel like I’m conning the friends I do have.

Sorry, I’m rambling.....

Thank you for your message, it was lovely to read and gave me a real boost! 💐💚

@SnapCackleFlop I agree that reading about others’ experiences is incredibly helpful. You think it’s just you and it is so isolating. Then you read an article about autism and realise that there are other people going through the same kind of experience.

I am sorry you are going through a tough time at the moment. COVID doesn’t help. It’s a magnifier of situations and emotions so whatever we may have been feeling or experiencing before is now intensified hugely and perhaps made us look at our lives more critically.

I agree that it is really hard when you feel low on the list of priorities. I could give my DH exactly the same advice as someone else. He would only listen to the someone else and totally forget that my advice had been exactly the same. At times I have felt that I might as well be invisible. It is heartbreaking especially if you are watching your children have the same experience. That is horrible. With my DH I feel he says things to try and impress people and make them take notice of him. It seems to be a whole charade of getting people to like him. He doesn’t have to impress me. He doesn’t have to get me to like him. I’m in his life whatever.

I would also agree that I have to spell out the possible consequences of situations: “If you do X, they may think Y and that could end up as Z which would be really tricky. Remember this happened before with A and it ended like that. The same could happen again.” He then gets upset or angry because he feels I am being controlling or patronising. So I explain why I am spelling it out “because I don’t want things to be difficult for you or for me”. Doesn’t go down too well much of the time. I’m now at a stage when I feel like saying “Do what you want but I’m not staying around to watch the consequences”.

Hypersensitive? Yes, yes, yes to an extreme. But lacks sensitivity or understanding to my feelings. Can give it out but can’t take it. It is exhausting for sure.

I completely understand about why you wouldn’t tell your friends. I have told a few. Some I am glad to have told. Others I wish I hadn’t. It is hard for people to understand if they haven’t experienced it. Hence the value in a thread like this I guess.

Some like journaling as a hobby. I hear people find it very therapeutic and even life transforming as it enables you to focus on YOU, your thoughts, feelings, needs. A totally DH-free space. It can be hard to think only if yourself as our lives are do entwined with DHs, children, autism but actually thinking about what you want...not big wants ten years down the line but the here and now. What you can do today, tomorrow, this week to make your life a bit brighter and more manageable for you. My life has taken a back seat recently so I need to put myself back in the driving seat now. Perhaps you do too.

for you...take care of yourself!

@SnapCackleFlop Sorry for typos...trying to be too speedy!!

A little bookmark, looking forward to catching up.

Hi All, I've not had time to read all of the last couple of months posts, but of what I've read I can identify with every single word. I'm not sure whether I find this reassuring or disturbing - both I guess.

In a somewhat lighter note but equally indicative 😕 I was asked today "explain to me why you almost half filled the kettle for just one cup of tea?". The real issue is I can get a hundred questions like this a day.

I think relationship burnout is a thing. I'm exhausted, knackered, disengaged, you name it.

Wishing you all well.

Better daft than never!

Oh God...the kettle...that’s EXACTLY the same thing I am asked! Word for word. Some people might ask it once and that’s it. But this is frequent and he is genuinely irritated by it.

Not sure if sharing experiences like this is, as you say, reassuring or depressing, but know you are not alone.