Married to someone with Aspergers: support thread 4 (replacement one)

[changerofnameaspiethread]

This thread is for partners seeking to understand the dynamics of their relationship with someone with ASD. It is a support thread, and a safe space to have a bit of a rant. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner. Otherwise the thread can be deleted, like Support Thread 4 The Original.

Previous threads:
1st thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3281058-Is-anyone-married-to-someone-with-Aspergers
2nd thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3325419-married-to-someone-with-asperger-s-support-group-here
3rd thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/a3463341-Married-to-someone-with-Aspergers-Support-group-here-Thread-3

Oh here we go again.

It's literally like a discussion with my ex.

intents thank you for a polite response.

The problem is there is no evidence at all to link autism and violence. If an autistic person is violent, studies have shown that it is linked to other issues such as ADHD and other personalities disorders.

And in terms of anxiety - our anxiety is triggered by having to try fit in with neurotypical expectations - so I could argue that NT’s “abuse” me (which they don’t as I know that in most cases it is not deliberate - if I ignore school bullying)

So I do not think it is fair in any way whatsoever to link violence and Asperger’s/HFA.

I really would have preferred to engage in a constructive manner but responses such as the one directly below yours (along with the whole load of abuse I got on thread 1 - most of which has been deleted) means that has not been possible. Too many people want to polarise this debate and that’s not helpful.

I think both “sides” need to sit and listen as they’re BOTH getting it wrong and causing hurt. It’s just that our hurt is much harder to see.

I really do not want a fight. I hate conflict.

our anxiety is triggered by having to try fit in with neurotypical expectations - so I could argue that NT’s “abuse” me

Theory of Pathological Demand Avoidance -

Rational response to external demands and control which does not match internal demands. (so if I understand correctly e.g. NT coercing AS to behave like a NT which is not needed and counterproductive results in avoidance)
Pathologising resistance

kar.kent.ac.uk/67064/1/PDA%20and%20alternative%20explanations.pdf
Slide 4

The Discourse of PDA and my initial critique
(Milton, 2013)
• ‘Nature’s answer to over-conformity’ and
‘rational demand avoidance’ from the autistic
perspective.
• Pathologising resistance – who was it who had
a need to control?
• The issue of self-identity.
• The issue of internal demands were not being
discussed in the literature at this time and so I
was not able to comment on it.

And your point is?

So someone publishes a "critique" of an accepted diagnosis of a version of ASC, and you think that is somehow a fact? Its status is described as "unpublished" its a pdf from a presentation at a meeting, its NOT from a peer reviewed publication ?

"Milton, Damian (2018) Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) and alternative explanations:
a critical overview. In: PARC meeting, 15th May 2018, London, UK. (Unpublished)"

Autistic i dont think intents is trying to link autism and violence but is a simple fact that some autistic people lash out, and amongst adolescents with ASD it is not uncommon.

I explicitly presented it as a theory of PDA, not a fact.

The publication itself is in references:
Milton, D. (2013) Natures answer to over-conformity: a deconstruction of Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA). In D. Milton (2017) A Mismatch of Salience: Explorations in autism, from theory to practice. Hove: Pavilion Press.

PDA is not an 'accepted diagnosis'. It is contested because there is an overlap with non autistic types. The presentation indeed reflects this discussion.

To the point of listening and having a dialogue, this theory could suggest a happier family life for both AS and NT could be found in accepting each-other for who we are and listening and recognising communication signals and needs in the way they are authentically expressed, i.e. for autistic people in autistic language. Understanding each-others language and needs, not micromanaging and imposing NT expectations.

PDA is not recognised as a disorder and one theory - the latest, is that it is avoidance and resistance to demands being put on the autistic person when these demands are totally externally motivated and have no internal value, are too removed from internal needs, priorities, and functioning. For example when they are forced to behave in a NT way when there is no internal value and demand for that. This could potentially trigger PDA and exacerbate things.

A theory, published.

autistic people communicating in autistic language that is

My daughter is 6 and her violent outbursts were discussed as part of her autism diagnosis. When she has a meltdown and can't cope she often lashes out. She bites me, punches me, kicks me. She is mortified afterwards and clearly tells me she loves me.

I need this thread. Really, really need it. It has helped me develop the self confidence to realise I don't deserve the criticism, blame, gaslighting. Please don't take it away from me with the same arguments.

The NAS say at the start of their webpage on Challenging behaviours
"Some autistic people can display challenging behaviour. It includes what would normally be considered physically aggressive behaviour, but can also include other behaviours if they are having a negative impact on the person or their family."

Yes it goes on to describe various coping strategies, which family members can invoke or use to try to be of help, and to protect themselves - but the bottom line is that the behaviour is challenging!

www.autism.org.uk/about/behaviour/challenging-behaviour.aspx

My H did an online test & scored quite highly. It has piqued his interest as he wants to look into a professional diagnosis now. I’m glad as at least then we can understand his behaviour more. I don’t think I’ll ever go back which makes me so sad for all the hopes & dreams that are lost but I’m sure we’ll all cope somehow.

I can’t live in an emotionless state, it will make me physically & mentally ill. I have to set myself free.

My H is absolutely not violent but he will hit/punch inanimate objects when triggered.

Like @intents the abusive (or damaging behaviour- thanks @daft) is linked to his HFA as it’s always when I push him out of his comfort zone/daily routine. I just didn’t know that until I clicked on to the earlier threads & read up on it.

NAS and most places don't distinguish. There is only ASD now, not Aspergers. It doesn't exist as a distinct diagnosis. I consider my H to have autism.

Just wanted to echo Michael's earlier post:

This thread is for partners seeking to understand the dynamics of their relationship with someone with ASD. It is a support thread, and a safe space to have a bit of a rant. Avoid sweeping generalisations if possible, try and keep it specific to you and your partner.
(ASD partners welcome to lurk or pop in, but please don't argue with other posters and tell them they are wrong).

• Please do keep this in mind when posting.

Thanks

Thank you @MNHQ

Having had a pretty tough Easter, we're back to the daily routine and DW is all happiness and light.

Hi all,

So H is now actively seeking a diagnosis. It feels crazy as whenever I mentioned before that he was differently-wired he was very dismissive but now I’ve left it feels like he knows that he has HFA and is keen for answers. However he saw online that a private diagnosis can be £1500 so that stopped him in his tracks a bit. Has anyone been through this?

Also, I think the online aspergers test cannot work properly as we all have ideas & perceptions about ourselves. H believes he is flexible & sociable. I would say he is a stickler for routine (anything else triggers anger) and is awkward socially and avoids social events that don’t involve people he likes and knows. That said, he still scored above average! He also commented that the questions weren’t right - which did make me laugh 🙄 So typical! 😂

Also, I don’t think ANYONE in my real life will ever understand what happened in my marriage. I talked to my brother a bit about Aspergers and the effect my H’s behaviour throughout my marriage has had on me. I told him I thought I had died which was the moment I knew I needed help. I could see he didn’t ‘get it’. Why would he?

I know in the end it doesn’t matter but I think plenty of people will wonder why I took my kids and left a man who on the surface seems to have it all.

Sometimes I just want to scream ‘I couldn’t take anymore’