Confronting DH about his sulking...part2

[jamaisjedors]

New thread :
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking?msgid=84022238

First one is running out of space due to all the amazing support I have had from all you mners!

To summarize, H is a serious sulker, gives me the silent treatment to get his own way or to "punish" me.

I was ready to leave, almost out the door over Christmas/New year.

Things have calmed down now as he has agreed to see a psychotherapist and suggested marriage counselling. I have my own psychotherapist.

Now trying to work through why on earth this has happened and make a calm, rational decision about my future and our family's future.

@jamaisjedors
You are sounding so much stronger.

If it's easier for him to feel that he made the decision and it helps him recover afterwards, who cares what the truth is? It'll be so much better for the DC to have us both in agreement and not just one aggreived party.
This will pay dividends not just for the children but for you too in the short/medium term and going into the future.

I'd advise, however, still playing your cards close to your chest as to your plans and ensure your finances and new accommodation is completely tied down for when you are ready to leave.

He is, after all, still the person he always was.

I totally agree to play your cards very close to your chest I think he will punish you in every way possible for daring to leave the marriage.

Does someone need to be blamed, could it not be that you both aren't working out.

No, ideally both of you would walk away with no bitterness, it didn't work out.
But with this type of character there will likely be reprimands, fights over DC contact, fight over money. someone who is used to sulking & getting his/her desired outcome, is not going to say, "Ok I'll stop sulking now"
His comfortable set up is gone.

I have made my mind up to leave HIM, and now he seems to be threatening to leave ME.

Hope you can see just what a blessing this could turn out to be.

I think I am seeing that actually (that it is a blessing that he thinks it's over too).

I have a feeling that this is why I actually managed to sleep last night, the responsibility is not all on me.

Also I really do now think I have done everything I could possibly do to save this marriage so less guilt or regret down the line.

Also I think I have done a lot of my grieving (I'm sure there will be more) which should help the transition.

It certainly won't all be plain sailing from now on; your feelings will continue to fluctuate. Keep writing your journal (or posting on here) and read it back when you wobble.

You give him too much credit, jamais.

He isn't a good person.

I think what Finally meant is it will turn out to be a blessing that he thinks he's in control of the relationship ending. His entire interest in the relationship - and, sorry to say, you - is to control it and you. He is simply not interested in something he can't get his kicks out of by controlling.

He will continue to try to control you when you split. He knows no other way and it not interested in any other way.

All that angst you've been through is just him controlling you to make you feel responsible.

Springy is correct there will more control, this will most probably be about money, selling the house & making things difficult with DC also moving on promptly to next woman, having more DC etc. which will hurt like the blazes in spite of wanting to live your life without his oppression

So now H is being totally normal and chirpy - last night I wrote a long post which I lost, but the gist was that he is engaging with the DC loads, doing loads of cooking, offering help, generally being his best self again, despite having told me 2 days ago that he is leaning towards a separation in his head and that he is not prepared to even think about our relationship anymore, let alone work on it.

It's like being back in a parallel universe again.

This morning I got up early and read the rest of "Living with the passive agressive man".

A lot of stuff in the book doesn't really make sense for H, he's not a procratinator or perpetually late or unreliable in general and it is not at all a "hopeless case" who needs rescuing, he is on the contrary very organised, reliable and successful.

However he DOES procrastinate when I ask to either discuss something or make a decision - which often leads to sabotage because if I push for a discussion or an answer, he says I'm too impatient, but if I don't, he will never bring it up again and the decision will never be made.

One thing really made sense :
He avoids and fears intimacy and dependency - so putting me in a catch-22 situation where has says he wants my help and support but when I offer it, he refuses it.

There was also quite a lot of stuff about how to handle this type of personality, and what puts them on edge - and I see now in my past behaviour when I was younger that I probably did all the "wrong things", for example either being confrontational and angry (instead of quietly but firmly assertive of my boundaries) or letting things go because of the fear of his sulking or procrastination.

I'm not saying I blame myself, because the book makes it abondantly clear that this type of passive-agressive personality can only be "fixed" if they themselves identify a problem and agree to work on it.

But I can see what I suspected is probably true (and this has made me doubt myself in the past), that I did have some role in things getting worse and worse between us.

It doesn't really matter now because the damage is done, the years of him seething with resentment at me and bottling it all up have damaged him and damaged our relationship.

I also see now (and my psychologist made this remark too this week) that he probably genuinely does see me as his "persecutor" because he feels victimized generally, everyone is "out to get him".

But this doesn't make me his actual persecutor, which he had me believe for a very long time.

Nice long walk with a friend planned tomorrow, and then I guess I should be talking with H about the plans for the holidays and beyond...

Enjoy your Saturday nights everyone.

It's quite a head fuck when you shift from assuming that if he truly believes you the one in the wrong then you must actually be wrong to the realisation that he's wrong but you will never convince him of it.

I'd still not hurry to talk about arrangements. Housing first.

Enjoy your walk

I am very glad that you can truly see it isn't your fault, it has been entirely his decision to seethe with resentment rather than discuss why this miscommunication has happened.

I do think he is being his very best self so that he can look the innocent party to himself and others. He does know he is at fault and the sulking is completely out of order but doesn't want to do the work to change it suits his narrative far better to continue to believe you are the persecutor...

So now H is being totally normal and chirpy

Are you honestly surprised? Were you not expecting this?

After what you've said about him I was totally expecting this as it's the pattern he always follows.

But I can see what I suspected is probably true (and this has made me doubt myself in the past), that I did have some role in things getting worse and worse between us.

Okay you said you don’t blame yourself, but this still sounds like you are interpreting “possibly some people can sometimes change, if they want to and are with someone who does x y and z” as “I didn’t do x y and z therefore it’s partly my fault”. Is that true?

In most healthy relationships it’s not one person’s job to “handle” the other. You weren't responsible for fixing his behaviour, you aren’t his therapist. He is not sitting around analysing how he should have behaved towards you in order to make things work out.

Good luck

I completely relate on this issue,
I am currently clenching my teeth, we have a dog that we, (well actually, I,) am trying to heal. If REST doesn't help she will need a operation on ligaments, which is costly & it will be very difficult to keep her indoors & to rest up... She is 10, & has 10 years of extremely active life, she doesn't understand "relaxing "
So DH, let her out (along with our other younger dog) & then fucking off leaving her in the field, where she had a great time, playing & digging & just being her doggy self. She now cannot walk. all the effort I have made over the last week, keeping her in, with pills & considerable effort of only letting her walk on a lead is SCREWED. H is now giving me the silent treatment sulking at me, because I said, " theres no point in me keeping her in if you just let her out & then drive off in your car to do something fucking else.", apparently I am always moaning at him....
So I am supposed a fault here........... Livid.
Yes I could have said, "oh dear, the dog's back on 3 legs", tra la la
but actually its all about HIM, his laziness, his lack of taking responsibility, his selfishness........ I'm just supposed to fix it now.

It can be helpful to recognise that it wasn't always so bad. You weren't insane to ever have been in a relationship in the first place. Your personalities happened to be such that your dynamic meant bad traits got worse until they were unbearable.

It's like when you don't pull that weed in the garden and then years later you find yourself overrun with bindweed. As a young gardener you would have no reason to know that shoot was bindweed, nor the devastating effect it can have. You wouldn't know to dig a massive hole around the little shoot, get the tubes out then be obsessive about removing the inevitable new shoots that still sprout.

Years later you can look back and see that particular actions might have stopped the progression. You can do that without feeling guilt or blame: most people with the knowledge you had at the time would have acted like you and so the bad weed gets its stranglehold. It is what it is. Sadly somewhat inevitable.

Hope you had a nice walk.

The walk was great and my friend is very supportive (and I was careful not to overload her with all my crap, I left it for the last 20 mins or so).

Towel that is a very good metaphor and it will help to bear that in mind in the future - because as @JudgeRulesNutterButter says, I do feel like I contributed too.

But I do what I could with what I had at the time, that's all.

Just did a garden job with H and he asked about the upcoming holidays.

He asked if I was coming to his family event, and I said"no, I already said I will not be going".

So he will be taking the DC away from Friday for a long weekend and then I will take them to see my mum who will be in the country (elsewhere).

I still have keys to my colleague's flat.

H also said "and after the holidays?"

I said I didn't want to discuss that while stacking wood so could we do it later.

I guess that means we may be talking about possible scenarios for separating.

My lawyer advised me to keep it general, any financial discussion needs to be fine through her.

What I need to know is if he would be prepared/wants to stay in the family home to give the DC some continuity.

You both subconsciously chose each other to carry out this destructive dynamic highly likely continuing patterns learnt childhood.

However you have recognised that it's poison and it needs to change, he doesn't want change as he is happier to wield his power because it achieves what he wants and he doesn't care about the damage.

It really is his loss.

Yes I am sad about that.

I realised with a jolt sometime last year that my mum also gives me the silent treatment when she is angry so I guess I subconsciously accepted it as acceptable or at least familiar behaviour.

It took me a long time to realise it because most of my memories of childhood are of my parents shouting and being aggressive but then my mum gave me the silent treatment all through Christmas 2 years ago, and only spat out what was wrong as I was getting into the car to leave.

She was cross because I hadn't called her enough but she had never called me once. Just like H's behaviour!!!!

Keep in mind that continuity might not be the best thing for the DC. It can be really disturbing to have things appear superficially the same when something fundamental has changed, e.g. it's my familiar kitchen but my mum's not in the hosue any more. It can be jarring. I wouldn't get too stuck on housing continuity as an idea. School and clubs continuity are more important I suspect, i.e. home life has changed but non-home life remains constant. Life is not fucked.

Well, your reaction to your mum's behaviour shows the impact of growing up with this as your normal: you think it is normal and accept it from others. You are doing a good thing for your children in breaking the cycle.

Just like H's behaviour!!!!

Very interesting that you have spotted the reason why his horrible treatment is somehow familiar to you jamais. So important to recognise these patterns of behaviour can determine the whole direction of our lives.

So... H actually came and got me to come and talk to him.

We talked about what would happen if/when we split, who would live where, the DC etc.

He came up with the same plan as me and said he would be happy to stay in the house.

Then we had a not very productive long drawn-out conversation going over a ton of stuff again. One of the things he supposedly couldn't understand was that I felt sad about the end of the relationship, according to him I should just be feeling relieved.

At the end we did have a hug, which was nice and felt familiar and comforting and peaceful. But then he started getting tactile again - read roving hands - and I moved away.

He asked me if I was coming with him to the family weekend, and I said that I had already told him NO. He asked me again and said it was ok to change my mind . I still said no despite him saying he would like me there.

I had to re-explain that I would find it too hard to pretend in front of everyone and that there would be nowhere to get any privacy at any point. He asked me how I would explain it and I said I would cite work - and I have now emailed the two people organising and explained this.

At the end we had a pretty weird moment where I said I had understood that we had just agreed on the terms and conditions of breaking up, ie it was going to happen, and he said he had understood we were just talking through options.

Then as usual, he decided enough was enough, and headed out into the garden.

I just got some air too, and am now going to do some yoga.

Tomorrow night I am seeing friends and I think I will stay over to get out of the house, am quite nervous about tonight because the way he was just now I think he is leading up to initiating sex and it makes me feel queasy (even though stupidly I do miss him and miss cuddling up to him).

He's messing with my head again isn't he?

I even said that to him.

Everytime I take a step closer to the door, he lets me go a certain distance and then starts trying to reel me back in, saying that the reason he wouldn't commit to any change until now was because I was being so distant and negative, but that perhaps now that I had given him a positive sign (the hug) he would be prepared to think abou it.

Complete find fuck.

Be prepared he is going to blame and bad mouth you, you have also now revealed your plan/thoughts.